DUST Search - Tank Petition

Stinker Butt wrote:

So your argument is basically that when you dominated with a militia tank you thought it was "balanced," but when you lost it later to a proto anti-vehicle player, you were sad and things started to seem unbalanced. You may not be a tanker, but you sure think like one.

Tankers seem to think that they're not supposed to die and that is balance. They got spoiled in chromosome and then the "easy kill" button got taken away. Even if the change is only temporary, they cry constantly. You're a clone, and you're supposed to die in this game.

If your AVers are forgers, they will always have difficulty with LLAV's. I played most of the day yesterday and took out every LLAV I played against. I can't say the same for the tanks, but I play solo.

PC battles are a completely different scenario. Mostly organized, AV and Vehicle, lots of support. I won't believe tanks are as useless as so many claim until they stop showing up in multiple numbers to every match. If you tankers really want to teach ccp how bad they are, stop using them.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1001	Posted - 2013.07.18 04:27:00 - [1] - Quote Stinker Butt wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Thats not what we are asking. I want it to be a team of 3 proto or so to take on a fully fit proto tank, not a standard. Proto tanks aren't in the game, so how do you know that it won't require 3 proto to take it down? Currently, solo STD AV is not taking any decent STD tank down. If it is, then your tank is really bad. That is exactly right. Therefore proto AV should be removed from the game or proto and adv tanks should be added. btw... as someone who has about 200k into vehicles and HAVs in general. I agree with this petition. Tanks are an absolute joke... pretty much free WPs anymore.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1003	Posted - 2013.07.18 04:43:00 - [2] - Quote Mary Sedillo wrote: 200k sp into tanks and you think you are an expert? That's pathetic. Over 10 million SP in vehicles here. Did I ever mention in my post I was an expert? Geez dude.. calm down.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1007	Posted - 2013.07.18 14:55:00 - [3] - Quote I seriously can't believe that people are arguing that pro AV vs std tanks is balanced. And this comes from someone who is NOT a tanker. I don't even have to bother speccing into AV at all... I just run with hacked ex-0s and my buddy has lai dais.... There is no tank that can take 4 of each of those. Seriously, its like running std suits and going against duvolles... Yeah you can sometimes win 1v1 but where is the balance? I had some matches yesterday morning, really early so no one special on and it was my MLT tank vs MLT and std AV. Now with the right tactics and squad support i could manage to keep it alive the whole match. It felt really fun, engaging, and balanced. Then i go to work and try again in the evening... My tank had a lifespan of less than 1 minute against proto AV. Okay that's fine, I can't understand its just a 200k ISK throw away tank against proto AV, probably balanced and fine, even if it was a little sad. But knowing that all tankers have is the std level... It's completely not balanced. Now I'm almost always playing infantry, logi generally. When I'm squared up with 4-6 TPs... Then tanks are not, In the least fearsome, they are generally just free wps and occasionally rail snipers are an annoyance. Back in chrome if you saw a surya or a sagaris, they were a mighty force to be reckoned with. It was fun and engaging trying to take them down. Fast forward to today, and generally its like oh crap hurry we better run over and take out that tank quick before some one else gets the WPs. Or... If i have one our heavies running forge on my team, it literally goes like this: "Tank coming down" "Okay np, just give me a few seconds... Okay it's gone" All of our AVers have about 10x more trouble with LLAVs than with tanks of any sort. Yeah... Tanks right now are a joke. Even in PC, 1-2 AVers on a rooftop will lock down any vehicles for the entire match. They don't need support, if they get sniped they can just spawn back in on their uplink. So yeah, as someone who isn't a tanker. We need adv and pro of all vehicles or the removal of adv and pro AV until there is.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1012	Posted - 2013.07.18 17:37:00 - [4] - Quote Also... would it be that hard to add in tiers for each tank. Marauder tanks, like enforcers are specialized variants, similar to medium vs. assault and logistics. I really can't understand how hard it would be to had std/adv/pro variants of Madrugars/Gunnlogis which are essentially basic frame HAVs. And then std/adv/pro variants of enforcers, mauraders, and eventually destroyer tanks. Literally the only thing that should change between variants is base health, CPU/PG, and price.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1012	Posted - 2013.07.18 17:56:00 - [5] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Literally the only thing that should change between variants is base health, CPU/PG, and price. Don't forget slots... From what I can see, tank progression doesn't work like dropsuit progression... seems like number of slots only changes when you move into a specialty variant. I've been trying to argue dropsuits shouldn't work that way either... and that normalizing std/adv variants to the proto tier's slot count would be the best way to do things. Esp when the NPE is so bad due to 'protostomping'.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1014	Posted - 2013.07.18 19:24:00 - [6] - Quote Stinker Butt wrote: So your argument is basically that when you dominated with a militia tank you thought it was "balanced," but when you lost it later to a proto anti-vehicle player, you were sad and things started to seem unbalanced. You may not be a tanker, but you sure think like one. Tankers seem to think that they're not supposed to die and that is balance. They got spoiled in chromosome and then the "easy kill" button got taken away. Even if the change is only temporary, they cry constantly. You're a clone, and you're supposed to die in this game. If your AVers are forgers, they will always have difficulty with LLAV's. I played most of the day yesterday and took out every LLAV I played against. I can't say the same for the tanks, but I play solo. PC battles are a completely different scenario. Mostly organized, AV and Vehicle, lots of support. I won't believe tanks are as useless as so many claim until they stop showing up in multiple numbers to every match. If you tankers really want to teach ccp how bad they are, stop using them. Dominated? Lol I went like 4-5 kills and 0-1 deaths/tanks lost in those games. I stuck around on the outskirts and picked off stragglers and always remained behind my blueberry infantry. I was actually trying to remain as a force multiplier, esp since my tank was so weak. I would literally run when I saw 2+ infantry as I knew i didn't stand a chance. I'll admit im no super tanker, and militia swarms were wrecking my soma.. but I could at least respond and get out of the situation if it was too much. If I come up against adv/pro swarms in my tank right now... no way im escaping.. its already over. Its two shots even when repping. But i'm fine with that... It was a tank with almost no SP dedicated to it. I can get about 4-5x as many kills in my proto logi build than I can in a tank... so no.. im not whining that I should be OP. I am almost always on the recieving end of tanks, and I can say... they are ****. In chromosome if you saw a tank you needed to worry about it and find a way to take it down, in uprising... they are free WPs and thats it. Can you imagine when matchmaking is finally released? A well fitted tank right now may be able to do some pubstomping against an unorganized team with some decent players and most bad players... but what happens when a tanker with 12+ mil SP is placed in a game where all 16 players on the other team have 10+ million SP and 8+ of them have proto AV? Tankers won't stand a chance, period. Even with a price reduction whats the point? You won't be doing anything. And still... it doesn't change the fact that there is AV weaponry progression from std to officer and there is absolutely no tank progression. If proto tanks were to be such a problem, thats an issue with tank balance. But saying... oh the milita noobs don't like dying to tanks... lets make sure we have 2 more tiers of AV than tanks at all times? wtf seriously?
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1025	Posted - 2013.07.18 22:08:00 - [7] - Quote One thing they could probably patch in right away that would help tankers at least a little is to make the small turrets optional like sidearms are for assault suits.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1027	Posted - 2013.07.18 22:29:00 - [8] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: Reduce PG by 10% for tanks 5% for DS'es and 15% for LAVs and re-instate PG skill (allowing skilled vehicle users to get 15% more tank PG 20% more DS PG and 10% more LAV PG) messing with Modules to achieve the same effect would be nice too but making Vehicle Engineering useful would help not a waste of SP. Give 5 pre-fit militia tanks, DS'es,and 10 LAV's to all new players to let them test out Vehicles. making small turrets optional would help too but in LAVs and DSes too Or they could just change it to 3% per level and leave everything else as it is.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1041	Posted - 2013.07.19 17:29:00 - [9] - Quote I don't know if anyone else has posted it.. but it looks like the devs are acknowledging this thread. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1074375#post1074375 So that's gotta mean something. Here was a thought I had yesterday too. What if CCP introduced an "Assault LAV" variant which had a driver operated turret and two seats? Could give vehicle drivers something to use in pubs other than 1.5 million isk HAVs. With high level vehicle skills im sure an assault LAV could be quite terrifying in the right hands, and only cost ~400k isk instead of ~1500k isk. Sounds cool... hell i'd even spec into that.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1041	Posted - 2013.07.19 20:56:00 - [10] - Quote Pikachu Power wrote: I can handle 1 proto AV and win because ill shoot him. 2 and ill run. 3 and im dead. that is technically how it should be, which is why we need proto havs. Im curious what you think about this Charlotte. What if they did this. Std Madrugar is what we have now. Chassis is 200k iirc? So lower the chassis down to 100k isk. Requires Gallente HAV I Add Adv Madrugar Same Slot Count Base Armor/Shields +15% Base PG +15% Price: 300k ISK Requires Gallente HAV III Add Pro Madrugar Add +1 High Slot Base Armor/Shields +40% (over std) Base PG +40% (over std) Price: 800k ISK. Requires Gallente HAV V You would do the exact same for Caldari HAVs (this doesn't address shield/armor imbalances but at least gets better basic frame HAVs out there) Then Surya/Sagaris will be "Marauder HAVs" added later on and skilled into similar to Enforcer HAVs are now. Lower Std Enforcer Price bt 50% and perform the same procedure adding base health and PG and adding an extra slot at pro tier. Pricing would be something like $600k std, $1.2M adv, $2M Pro. Not that the numbers are finalized... but more the concept of basic frame and specialty frame HAVs and how increasing PG and base health is not hard to program. Could even change the color set a little making adv and proto tanks different colors. Seems like it wouldn't be that hard. You could add just the adv frame first and see how the meta game reacts, and then iterate as needed and eventually add the pro frames. Seems like such an easy solution to me...

ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1083	Posted - 2013.07.20 23:26:00 - [11] - Quote we'll just have to see what happens. The post was rather vague and cryptic. Only stating 'fixed in a future patch'. They could very well have only meant "we are aware of this and will address it when we do our vehicle pass for 1.4"/ However, Shanghai's communication is about as good as microsoft's and we're all left wondering wtf is going on...