Alright let's play a game of logic shield missle v mad blaster outside city shield wins shield missle v mad blaster inside city mad wins now marry where do you see mads 95% of the time? besides im not trying to say it's not possible for gunns to kill mads ive killed many mads but based of stats and other info mads outgun gunns and thats perfectly fine im just saying shields need the speed like they used to too stand a chance or i'll just continue to rail mads like i do in p/c

this is the wrong room, and a bad idea.

I want to make a good game. Dust 514 needs intense vehicle on vehicle combat, as well as neck and neck fights between powerful machines and dedicated av players. Whether or not we agree on suggested changes we have to respect each others roles. I don't want to ruin a av players experience like they shouldn't want to ruin mine. Im usually pretty good at keeping tanks alive, I don't redline snipe, but because of the over whelming amount of strong av ive honestly thought about it. You may not like it but you cant deny that tanks are becoming obsolete in New Eden and they need help.

That is an interesting list of complaints.

Even more interesting is the list of signees.

Some of you are better than this, and should shake the pessimism from your heads.

The rest of you don't surprise me.

To the points:

1) Content will get here when it does. You know CCP sucks at getting stuff released, don't cry about it.

2) Forge gun range is fine, swarms could maybe come down 20 or 30 m.

3) Armor resists are fine.

4) You forgot 4.

5) How often do you guys lose tanks? I make a healthy profit taking and I don't redline tank. Anybody who pops my tank has to work for it. As long as I don't make a mistake I live. Welcome to new Eden.

6) The shield v armor balance needs to be worked on with Blam, not handled in a shameful petition.

I've read only ~half oft the posts (old and new thread) but I fully support gbh08 here.
Fyi, I currently sit in a 600k railgun madrugar.

We can one-shot 90% of every infantary, kill enemy installations with ease, kill lav, air and other hav and take a ton of damage.
What do you guys want more? Of course 3-4 proto AV guys can kill you in a coordinated attack, but they are food for your mates and paying also thousands of ISK.

It is good how it is at the moment.

[quote=Void Echo]1st petition that tank drivers have made[/qu



So.....i've created the first unification of tanks on DUST514?

There was the petition not to kill eachother in 1.0

Do any or all of the things mentioned in this thread and rivers of tears will flow from the AV guys.

CCP knows that money comes form the foot AR soldiers and not you tankers.

Hell your DEV has gone MIA from these forums do to the fact that him and his team can't get vehicle balance right.

I agree with this guy.

You are all asking for the wrong things to balance the game.

Im persomally happy with std and adv AV balance against us but its the lack of true proto tanks and mods that make us like paper thin against pro av . Thats the imbalance if we got our proto havs and not more sub standard adv havs we would see the balance.

Would it be okay if Mad&Gunn became the prototype tanks and we add two weaker / cheaper Std and Adv versions of both?

God iv been screeming this since the start of uprising and the removal of the marauders.

you see 2-3 militia tanks in every match they are worthless and get destroyed easy I can fight a militia tanks in my madrugar with only a minor hit to my armor

so 3-4 tanks that are considerably more "durable" is better? I disagree. So another suggestion. Limit tanks to 1 tank per side.

A tank is not a one man army, trust me. It can't maneuver for **** and is a huge target. It doesn't even have the defense to back up its slow acceleration. Someone who has specced into AV properly can literally 3 shot a madrugar with a protoswarm. What you are seeing is a bunch of idiots who don't know how to counter tanks/ignore them, get killed by them, rinse and repeat.

They aren't a one man army now, but they were before. And most tankers want that again.

I'm AV. Prototype swarms, level 5 proficiency, 2 complex damage modifiers. I even have a prototype logi suit that can equip 5 complex damage modifiers, but despite the claims in this thread, I've tested extensively and it's barely any stronger than 2, so it's not worth it.

So yes, with several million sp invested, I can 3 hit some madrugers. Many take 6+ hits or more if they use reppers. If I didn't combine AV nades, swarms, and help from others, they would never go down. Majority of players are these "idiots" (your words, not mine), so if I play solo against your new buffed tanks, I guess I'm expected to just accept dieing repeatedly and losing.

Despite all my investment, I'm still one-hitted by tanks who shoot the ground near me.

The leaderboard is BS tbh, at the end of the game the tanker is top due to WP, half the time my tank is fragoed by the SL so when i take out installations and vehicles i get points for it while normal infantry have to do alot more to get 100WP where as i can 3 shot something, half the time i can get 1k of WP by hitting the installtions before the game has truly started

So you want the number 1 position, the most WP, the highest kills, and the least deaths, then you will be satisfied?

Limit rails - Then you have to limit the FG then aswell, also the range of SL if the rail cannot shoot as far as the SL

That's not true. don't know about the FG, but I get killed by tanks that my swarms can't reach repeatedly.

We cannot lock the vehicle or kick ppl out of the turrets who would waste our ammo spamming it as the mcc, how many to a clip? how long to reload? where do we resupply? is it at depots? if so then some depots need to be brought down to ground lvl, is it by special nanohive? if so we need it in the game

Who cares if some blueberry uses up the ammo reserve on your small turret. You have a large one.

Resupply at supply depots like everyone else. locations of these are easy to change. But the supply is just a suggestion. There's no tanker in this game that's going to want limited ammo. Hell, I want unlimited ammo too, but alas, the rest of us are not so lucky as you.

I'm not trying to troll here, just giving my opinions. I see a lot of good tankers using good tactics and staying alive most matches while maintaining top position with the some of the highest k/d ratio's in the game. It seems unreasonable for anyone to throw any tank on the field and expect the same.

LOL, this guy thinks only tank drivers are entitled to speak.

I'm skilled into vehicles. I don't drive tanks because I don't like to drive them. So why don't you clarify which parts of my post are soooooo wrong?

As stated before, those are my opinions. You're allowed to disagree.

The statement that you shouldn't have to resupply because you're worried about AV is a poor argument. But like I said, nobody is ever going to want to have to resupply when they have unlimited ammo. But it seems a little odd to me that you can hammer down vehicles, installations, and infantry the entire match, barely letting go of the trigger and never running out of ammo.

I know this isn't real life, but real tanks require 4 people to man them and they still get disabled by RPG's. Why do solo tankers think they should be unbeatable by a single AV player? Just lower the price. Balance will be achieved.

Or just be like Charlotte and get all your alts to sign.

You must have me confused with someone who has something to prove.

I came out on top of the best of the Imps in PC ringing for STB.

Since they were the best in the game, and pretty much all retired afterwards, there is no real challenge left. But if your bosses want me to do your job for you, they can mail me and pay my fee.

Or if you feel like throwing away 30 mill you can drop me a mail and respectfully ask for a 1 v 1.

Otherwise, feel free to go back to your crying about how you can't make a profit, or AV is too strong, or how you can no longer go 30- 0 now that people have specced into real AV.

Poor baby.

sad thing is that people, who call themselves and each other "A-list tankers" and "best tank players", write that they get wrecked by a single forgegun in three shots.

Go get some lessons from sota, your trolling is just as shabby as the way you demand buffs.

Between you and charlotte there are more tears in here than there were at your place when the cancelled the L word.

Woo 20 pages!

Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't make them a troll. If it weren't for some good criticism here this thread it would be mostly posts saying "where's CCP's response?" and "bump." And since this petition includes nerfing AV, I think I have every right to speak about it.

For the record, I only came here after seeing this thread spammed in my alliance chat, then getting an email sent to everyone to come check it out. I planned on making one post, but after it got criticized by a bunch of tankers for having a different opinion, I decided to keep posting.

and the rest of dust wont agree to anything that requires 3+ proto players to take down one STD.

I've been playing FPS's since wolfenstein was released and I've never seen tanks that go 10 matches without 1 death, but for some reason people think it should be standard here.

Thats not what we are asking. I want it to be a team of 3 proto or so to take on a fully fit proto tank, not a standard.

You don't know what you're talking about. I drive vehicles. I get hit by AV every match. I have multiple skills, and my favorites are AV and Vehicles.

I've got as many skill points as you and as much time invested. you have no more right to live than I do. How many AVers do you kill before one is finally good enough to kill you? 20? 30? You don't want balance, you do want god mode.

Proto tanks aren't in the game, so how do you know that it won't require 3 proto to take it down?

Currently, solo STD AV is not taking any decent STD tank down. If it is, then your tank is really bad.

They are proto av for a reason. Play smart or go play Mario Kart. Jesus.

You've really made yourself look pathetic. You need to have your mom change your diaper. it's clear that you can't read. I'll say it again, I welcome the proto tanks.

Tanks need to have a counter. You don't get to just walk all over everyone because you want to. 1 highly skilled prototype anti tank player should be able to take down the equivalent tank - and vice versa. If not, then there is a clear advantage to the side with the tanks. If you can't see that, then you are the one that lacks common sense. The math is so easy, even you can do it.

he said Highly skilled Proto AV not your average idiot infantryman

lol, going to go off topic briefly, but how old are you? I would guess, but I don't want to insult you.

If nobody skills into tanks, why do I see 2-3 tanks every match? You don't need a buff, you need someone to teach you how to tank.

Genius AV'er vs Average tanker the odds go to the AV'er because he's smarter in how he fights

True but you can have a scanner I remeber that you run Gallente Tanks, Correct?

Dear "A-list tanker",

Tanks got the advantage over assault infantry, snipers, LAV, DS and installations.

Of course, people calling themselves ANTI-vehicles should always have the advantage over tanks BY DEFINITION. FFS.
BY F**** DEFINITION. You want an advantage over AV ... what the f***? Why are they called AV if they are in disadvantage vs. vehicles?

old news. happened months ago. when uprising came.

Claims to be the source on tanking, doesn't know cannon costs.

Lol.

Yo.

Just want to tell you folks you're not being ignored.

I don't have any details I can share, but some stuff's in the works from what I'm hearing.

As a fellow vehicle bro, I'll do what I can to make sure whatever that stuff is makes things suck less :)


Keep the faith!

Your original post would imply you're talking about 1 nade. If you mean multiple, then I guess you can insert whatever number you want to try and prove your point. I doubt you know more than me, but go ahead and keep thinking that.

STD tanks are supposed to be torn apart by proto AV. Pretty soon every sad noob with no gun game is going to drive tanks for the easy win. It makes me sad to think CCP is going to support it. But whatever. AV will probably cry for a buff next.

1. Agree to proto AV costing more, Forge Guns in particular should be much more expensive, as their are more versatile than anything else. Used in groups, they can either drive off or kill the tank, so they don't really have much risk.

2. Edited the post to reflect.

3. Tanks in PC almost need a different thread. The gulf in class between squad AV and squad HAV is too much for competitive gaming. Remote repair and Shield Transportation need a lot of help before we can properly engage in spider tanking.

5.Adding more depth to the encounter would be nice, but I think that right now, we need to help the Devs figure out the basics, long before we go for the frills.

Reserved.

I really feel like I'm trying to explain something to a child, and I'm probably just wasting my time, but here it goes again.

I drive vehicles. I have dropships, LAVs, and even tanks. I'm not a fan of piloting Tanks or dropships, but I do prefer the LAVs. Being mostly an anti-vehicle player it would be self-harmful for me to try and eliminate vehicles from the game.

It isn't that I dislike vehicles, but I don't think it's balance to require half of a team to take down one person in a tank. For every player that's anti-vehicle that team loses someone who is anti-infantry. Anti-vehicle players are easy targets for anti-infantry. Meanwhile, what has the tank side given up? Nothing. That gives the tank side an advantage.

You're pissed because being able to destroy every installation, every vehicle, and 99% of the infantry isn't enough for you. You find it unfair that there are people out there that can destroy you because you're a tank and they're not. That's where you should rely on your team. You're just one person, so your support should be taking care of the ones you can't get to. If you don't have good support, maybe you should consider keeping your tank in the garage.

Tankers believe that 1 person in anti-vehicle vs 1 person in vehicle should favor the vehicle. That's a stupid argument. You already have the favor in every other way. Why should you get it in anti-vehicle too? There needs to be a counter - it's a basic principle in MMO gaming. 3+ vs 1 is not balanced - that's getting overwhelmed by numbers.

I love vehicles. I just want real balance. Not a tankers warped opinion of what balance should be. An average AV player dies 10x more often than an average tanker because he has to worry about much more than just the tank. The only thing a tank is worried about is AV. If you manage to lessen that threat, then you pretty much run the map. You still need to worry about other tanks, but run with an envoy of 2-3 tanks and even that isn't a concern.

1. Why should it require a minimum of 2 dedicated people to take down a tank that only requires 1 person to drive and kill everything in sight? How is that balance?

2. I haven't forgotten isk. I've said from the beginning that the only problem with tanks is the high isk cost. It should be lowered. Your problem is that you think that by spending the isk you've earned yourself the easy win button

People will still drive a tank because a tank is still the dominating counter to 99% of the game. I'd love to see you get as many kills and die as few times with an HMG or forge. You may get one lucky game, but you can't do it consistently.

On a side note, I love seeing the forge gunners posting in this thread. They say that tanks are too weak because they only require a few hits from their proto AV. They don't seem to mind that they one-hit-kill infantry, installations, LAVs, and dropships. And yet, it's the tanks that are too weak. lmao at the irony.

tempted to say your mom. but I wont, because I don't drive a tank.



1. Those "50" ton killing machines are still disabled by a single RPG in real life. It clearly isn't the most advanced on the market since it's only "standard." I'm not emotional, I'm trying to speak so that a child would understand. You didn't spend 2x my SP. And if it's based on that, I'd probably win every time. EVE Online is a different game, not even in the same class.

2. Pay to win some other game. Learn some skill.

lol, you must love COD because you constantly advertise it and try to get everyone to go play it.

The same rules do not apply to dust and EVE. You are naive if you think they do.

You want to pay isk to win the game. I have well over 300 million isk, so I win. I have over 17 million SP invested, so I probably win again. Aren't those your rules?

Get some skill, boy. And come back to Dust when you have it.

1. Have to disagree. As stated previously, if a tanker wants to sit around in the open for long enough, one AV user should be able to destroy them. Also, please don't use the plural in your arguments. You are not the voice of all tankers.

2. I have said this many times before, but I guess it needs to be expanded upon. You cannot balance with ISK. Just becuase our tanks cost more than an AV fit does not mean that they are more powerful. It just means that they take more materials to manufacture(in the general sense, not in the New Eden specific, as I am well aware that we are currently not manufacturing anything). The cost of an item is not a measure of how powerful it is, in any way.

Your idea that tanks are worthless if they can be taken out by a single AV user I cannot agree with. A tank has more range than a heavy, more ammo, greater flexibility, is more mobile, durable, can operate without a logi, etc. Just becuase an infantry man can destroy it, doesn't make it worthless.

Nerfing? Dont make me laugh armor reppers were bugged and they are finally getting fixed.
About time.

Go talk to ccp about that. Guess I should have posted that I'm a shield tanker and not your typical infantry

Lol Takecover was ban for this thread you already know CCP Blam is not happy.

Be nice if they simply said what their caveat is.

"Hey guys, we're nerfing the vehicle armor reps... But we're replacing it with THIS!"
Or something like that.

Like, I don't understand WHY damage profiles were changed, without ALL weapons being released.
Why reduce my sniper rifle's damage vs. shields by 10%, but don't offer me an alternative sniper rifle to skill into? Like, if my snipers damage profile is 90%/110% vs shields/armor... why not ALSO release a new sniper rifle that is 110%/90%? Why do I HAVE to deal with the short end of the stick AND not be offered a respec. Give me a way out! Whether that be a new weapon, or a respec.

People won't be complaining about anything, if a caveat of some sort were offered with every nerf.

Damn it, just posting on these forums make me miserable, and I want to quit the game, but CCP has me hooked at the nose with a character I fkin bothered to play with and skill into, and I don't want to see my play time go to waste. Yet with ALL these changes they keep making, that's exactly what's happening anyway.

hey, FYI people are getting banned for posting in this thread... also posts are getting deleted out of this thread. so yeah 1984 big brother is watching us

So far the supporters of the list are numbering over 100:
Tank Gorillarape
Die Quickly
I Keel You
TakeCoverOrDie
FIghter4All
Barbosa07z
Void Echo
CharCharOdell
TheLegend345
Killer-12
Vethosis
Viktor Viktrizi
Tai karl
Oso Tiburon
GodHands9
Exergonic
gboh8
Dark Deviser
NINJAPIRATEROBOTZOMBIE
Cy Clone1
Racro 01 Arifitsan
Code Slucid
Xender17
Tank Creno
Shield Creno
BatKing Deltor
Cormacks modified Griefr
Sgt ButtScratch
Cucch Commander
Nix Vulken
Crimson Judgement
Patoman Radient
Xocoyl Zaraoul
bear90211
Don Savage2013
DickMason
Andrew Sheafer
BobThe843CakeMan
Godin The Killer
pegasis prime
Dizzy Rocket
marksmn
Aleksander Black
CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP
Takahir Kashuken
LudiKure ninda
Brjann Innree
Ninjanomyx
We Are 138
Sylwester Dziewiecki
Pombe Greek
Andra Syra
Gary Togeris
Bendaiii Schrodinger
Robotic Tortoise
Alpha 443-6732
ladwar
MetaWolf-cell
Shadow Of War88
TITANICA Xangore
Covert Clay
Washlee
richiesutie2
Aythadis Smith
Blammo
ChicagoCubs4ever
Sponglyboy Squaredoo
Hired Pinp
Lorhark Gannarsein
Ken Kaniff69
Ludicure Ninda
Brjann Innree
Adeila Lafayette
Purona
English Snake
undeadsoldier90
Harpyja
thhrey euwayreurer
Sotapopgrey gay
Kam Elto
Azura Sakura
Death Klok
Serimos Haeraven
Sucia Kelly
Harpja
Dumpster Juice
Dre PrEach
Abby invo
Pocket Rocker Girl
The Window Licker
Sheneingay Mcbob
Eurydice McBob
Svipgdar Hero
Ghost Kaiser
Syther Shadows
Gogo O'dell
Kekklian Noobatronic
demonkiller12
raex001
Xera The Mishima
Pikachu Power
noname warrior
Muud Kipz
Seymour Krellborn
maliki iceni
Operative 1171 Aaiji
Jason Pearson
SoldierSaint
sev alcatraz

the list is much larger, even heavies want a challenge vs tanks, Sagaris must return!

Just Lower the damn price. What Fps game does it take 3 guys to take out a tank? Infantry should fear tanks. But tanks SHOULD fear AV. JUST.....LIKE.....EVERY....OTHER...FPS.

By personally skill into, you mean spend all your SP in to driving a TANK which when up against 2 guys on either side with AV can tear it apart like a bag of Doritos? which then is the same as a player from any other FPS who just has to just jump in to a tank and get raped by two players holding AV? SHOCKER. lol


So basically your saying CCP just said to you guys that you wasted your skills. JUST TELL CCP TO LOWER THE PRICE. A whole squad shouldn't have to gather to take out one tank. ARMA, BF, PS2, ext. None of those Fps games need 3 guys to take out one tank. Yeah, yeah, "cause it's not a normal FPS" But I don't play mmo, so if mmo tanks are mini bosses, then I see why sometimes these talks of stats sometimes sounds like the game table at the local comic book store.

i hear CCP Wolfman is in charge of vehicles now sagaris + pilot suit = revived tank game, lets see how good Wolfman is at simple math

Oh my. I really do want to read this, but seriously, 37 pages? This is going to take ages. I better go get some coffee.

Get Takecover to spell my name right aswell

Well, to be honest I'm just a random GM interested in vehicles. The DEVs you are trying to reach with this are always checking the Forum (lurking in the shadows) - although this topic should probably be in Feedback/Requests. I would also suggest to start a new topic, but in the appropriate section this time.

I heard takecover quit because this thread turned into a joke and everyone made fun of him. Lol.

Please sign the petition today to avoid another 1.5 ...

The way CCP sees it, HAV is currently viable if you fit properly with whats available and pilot them accordingly.

They arent going to risk turning the game into World of Tanks because the vocal minority want off the wall buffs, I do agree the lack of feedback to some of the hundreds of good suggestions is quite sad, but face it, game is still in beta and HAV/DS are not high on the priority list atm.

Clearly CCP took something from this 38 page discussion on tanks in their vehicle re-balance. Oh, wait CCP hates vehicles and those who use them.