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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Pikachu Power
Planetary Response Organisation
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Posted - 2013.07.15 14:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Xero The Mishima wrote:For Tanks being a "dead breed" you guys sure do QQ a awful lot and always get 10+ pages easy of QQ. God mode is fine as is. I see corps bringing in 3 tanks and putting up good fights. Even with all the AV Tanks are more than fine if anything nerfs are in order.
^Never tanked in his life. |
Pikachu Power
Planetary Response Organisation
1
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Posted - 2013.07.16 05:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Eurydice Itzhak wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:Void Echo wrote:if its a standard forge gun, no it should do that, advanced... maybe, proto definitely, but standard and militia, absolutely not Take the proto breach version with 2,7k damage, +15% skills + mods +10% armor damage make it 4k armor damage / shot with a rather long charge up time and immobilizing the heavy. Those are the moments hardener / reppers are for and one-shotting this guy is better than trying to survive, but yeah, I still cannot see a certainly dead tank. Reality is different, for sure, a third of the enemies having AV grenades, maybe a Commando with a SL from somewhere + this freaking heavy. But life isn't easy for anybody ... Get out of that npc corp man. No one uses breach. It's all about assault and yes they will 3 or 4 shot me at proto level if they start in an advantageous position. I took a full mag from a Gastuns Forge today. Didn't even move because I knew the FG user. Build your tank better.
Wow...you must be kidding. I'd do the math, but we all know it is impossible. From what I recall, you just hide behind buildings when people shoot at you. I've seen you tank; you're not great. You're not even top 20. Not even top 30 if I had to make a list. Why? Because no real tanker relies on HP to succeed. |
Pikachu Power
Planetary Response Organisation
1
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Posted - 2013.07.16 05:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Church The Sniper wrote:Hi i'm a Gunnlogi pilot and i started tanking with uprising (not includig my experience pre-uprising since it involved a good amount of time running tough sicas.) Now this post really only has to do with shield tanking since i dont have any experience running armor tanks as far a im concerned they are the end all be all in regards to tank on tank combat seeing as the effectiveness of their rep and compatability with hybrid weaponry puts my gunnlogi in its grave in a 1v1 situation.
1. Putting your eggs in the wrong basket if you want to help out tanks in pubs, take is concerned with gunnlogi survivability in PCs also cant seem to understand that their doesn't mean what he thinks it does. 2.Shield tanks need the effectiveness of their repps buffed to give it a fighting chance in tank v tank 3. If possible decrease refresh rate of AV nades from hives 4. Lets find someone interested in balancing tanks as a whole rather than making them viable in PC only and get them in touch with ccp. 5.bind and gag echo & take and start listenting to Attorney & Meode.. 6. For those up&comers like myself dont do what you see alot of idiots doing and idle at a sweetspot in order to rack up kills or do a circuit in order for your reps to recharge only to return and reinfoce that you are a problem and must be dealt with ,stay mobile & be aware of your surroundings and you wont have alot of the problems other tankers seem to have.
GL and happy hunting.
Attorney is a bad tanker. All the good ones are duking it out in the Great War. |
Pikachu Power
Planetary Response Organisation
1
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Posted - 2013.07.16 05:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Big long post on the last page, no talk of nerfs. Clearly vpid you can't read or you can't formulate a reply. Well done buddy.
Alpha, that's funny. You try and talk down to me but won't put your money where your mouth is. Are you yet another of Charlottes alt?
No, my alts are charchar, tango, gogo, and this one im posting with right now. I fought12 battles today and didn't see you in a single one. Probably because Eon already picked up all the good tankers left. I don't think there is one serious hardcore tanker who would say you are any good. Anyone with a good rep want to back Attorney up? I'll wait. |
Pikachu Power
Planetary Response Organisation
1
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Posted - 2013.07.16 05:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Where is a dev post? We have the second most replies to this of any other post except the respec. |
Pikachu Power
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
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Posted - 2013.07.18 03:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
405 posts and no response. only 300 more and we break a record. |
Pikachu Power
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
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Posted - 2013.07.18 03:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Spam! |
Pikachu Power
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
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Posted - 2013.07.18 04:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Stinker Butt wrote:Void Echo wrote: we wont agree to anything that nerfs us even further.
and the rest of dust wont agree to anything that requires 3+ proto players to take down one STD. Thats not what we are asking. I want it to be a team of 3 proto or so to take on a fully fit proto tank, not a standard. if only infantry had actual common sense...
That'll happen when we get another respec. |
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Posted - 2013.07.18 04:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:
Thats not what we are asking. I want it to be a team of 3 proto or so to take on a fully fit proto tank, not a standard.
Proto tanks aren't in the game, so how do you know that it won't require 3 proto to take it down? Currently, solo STD AV is not taking any decent STD tank down. If it is, then your tank is really bad.
3 std forges kills 1 std hav if its well fit and piloted by a competant dude. so 3 pro av will kill 1 pro hav. |
Pikachu Power
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Posted - 2013.07.18 04:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Genius AV'er vs Average tanker the odds go to the AV'er because he's smarter in how he fights hes also smaller and more moveable which will result in him sneaking behind you or surprising you from a mountain top about 20 feet way from you.
I'd be pretty powerful if I had the hitbox of a person and not a bus. |
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Pikachu Power
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Posted - 2013.07.18 05:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Stinker Butt wrote:
You don't know what you're talking about. I drive vehicles. I get hit by AV every match. I have multiple skills, and my favorites are AV and Vehicles.
I've got as many skill points as you and as much time invested. you have no more right to live than I do. How many AVers do you kill before one is finally good enough to kill you? 20? 30? You don't want balance, you do want god mode.
Have you ever heard of the term "pubstomping machine?," because that is what standard tanks are right now. We only dominate because the enemy team is too lazy to field AV. I've just played my 5th or so PC match today, where I am forced to fight smart AVers. I adapt, but the pain and frustration remains. Also, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in all of PC who uses a Vayu effectively (I have to make use of the 4mil sp sink somehow).
The day I see a Vayu win a tank battle against a competant tanker is the day I eat my locus grenade. |
Pikachu Power
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Posted - 2013.07.18 05:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Pikachu Power wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Stinker Butt wrote:
You don't know what you're talking about. I drive vehicles. I get hit by AV every match. I have multiple skills, and my favorites are AV and Vehicles.
I've got as many skill points as you and as much time invested. you have no more right to live than I do. How many AVers do you kill before one is finally good enough to kill you? 20? 30? You don't want balance, you do want god mode.
Have you ever heard of the term "pubstomping machine?," because that is what standard tanks are right now. We only dominate because the enemy team is too lazy to field AV. I've just played my 5th or so PC match today, where I am forced to fight smart AVers. I adapt, but the pain and frustration remains. Also, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in all of PC who uses a Vayu effectively (I have to make use of the 4mil sp sink somehow). The day I see a Vayu win a tank battle against a competant tanker is the day I eat my locus grenade. I've been running my Vayu all day, I have a secret build that no one knows about. Even in instant battles I use it more than my Madrugar and most of the time my Vayu out performs my madrugar. For example, just today I had killed Tank Gorillarape in his fully fit Madrugar, with my Vayu. He was not the only one, but he was one of the more noticeable ones.
Well that's just the thing- did you take him head on or did you play sneaky? I defeat tankers with 10+ mil sp in tanks when i only have like 3.5 in armor havs because i never attack head-on. |
Pikachu Power
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Posted - 2013.07.18 20:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:im trying to speak for the average tanker, but it seems that's impossible without everyone questioning how I personally drive them.
This^
When all of you talk about tanks being too powerful, you're talking about an amount of the tank population that can be counted on 3 hands. The rest get soloed a lot by proto AV. It isn't fair to the tankers who are not the absolute cream of the crop. How would you infantry feel if you had to have 16 mil SP and have THE BEST TACTICS in the game to be efficient and make money? |
Pikachu Power
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Posted - 2013.07.19 03:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:Yo.
Just want to tell you folks you're not being ignored.
I don't have any details I can share, but some stuff's in the works from what I'm hearing.
As a fellow vehicle bro, I'll do what I can to make sure whatever that stuff is makes things suck less :)
Keep the faith!
Thanks for keeping us informed as best you can. We are getting closer to where we need to be and will refuse to stop until the average tanker with 7m sp in tanks can call in a gunlogi or maddy with STD gear and profit over the course of their career, without being REALLY good. that being said, tanks cant be win buttons. I want bad tankers to splode in 1 min like they did in chromo while the A-list guys are indomitable (that's about 20 guys total, or less) |
Pikachu Power
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Posted - 2013.07.19 13:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:um i know im not some one of importance but can you guys put my name on the sig? i mean the more the better right?
Your signature is no more or less important than mine or anyone else's, bro. Last time I check, none of us were senators. Hahaha. |
Pikachu Power
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Posted - 2013.07.19 13:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Stinker Butt wrote:EnglishSnake wrote: Wut?
Confirmed for knowing nothing about tanks
Take a std basic tank into a PC match, proto AV tears it a new one not too mention it seems everyone carrys lai dai which are thrown 100m it seems and home in while causing 5400 damage at least to an armor tank
Confirmed for knowing nothing about AV. Lai Dai nearly 1800 damage roughly Add in 20% extra damage to armor So in fact doing 120% damage to armor So 120% of 1800 is 2160 for 1 nade x3 = 6480 roughly Confirmed for knowing more about AV than you Your original post would imply you're talking about 1 nade. If you mean multiple, then I guess you can insert whatever number you want to try and prove your point. I doubt you know more than me, but go ahead and keep thinking that. STD tanks are supposed to be torn apart by proto AV. Pretty soon every sad noob with no gun game is going to drive tanks for the easy win. It makes me sad to think CCP is going to support it. But whatever. AV will probably cry for a buff next.
Only if they are truly OP. When ANY dumb noob can hop into a tank and get more than 3 kills, we have a problem. I want tanks to be something that gets killed in 2 minutes by a stupid driver, but that can easily go 40:0 in the hands of a skilled expert in most pub matches.
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Pikachu Power
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Posted - 2013.07.19 20:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:1. Should a proto AV be able to take down a proto tank when we get them? Yes. This ignores tactics, or even the tanker trying to save himself. If, when we get proto tanks, one wants to just sit out in a field for a few minutes, then one guy should be able to destroy it.
2. I do not recall saying that I could take 6 proto swarms. I don't think any tank right now can. If I did say so, please point me to the post and I will change it. I recall saying that as soon as I see someone fire a six rocket swarm(proto) I immediately start retreating.
3. Yes, in a PC match tanks are expendable. Sometimes the FC needs you to drive right up on to an enemy position. This will normally cost you the tank. That is why corps should be keeping their tankers supplied. An organized group of 3 or 4 AV, or a team of one tank and an AV guy will destroy a tank very very fast.
4. I do not want anything balanced off of just my perspective. But having my perspective called pro-infantry, or to have it be derided as invalid due to my disagreement with the common themes is poor form. The larger balance discussion requires much more input than just mine or yours. I am not a low SP tanker, so trying to get an idea of what low SP tankers need is beyond me. However, what I think would go a long way is to promote the idea that proper matchmaking should hopefully be able to keep low SP tankers away from high SP AV.
5. I provided the link because we DO need to balance for skill. Tanks should not be balanced so that bad drivers can do well. They need to be balanced so that really good drivers like you have to play really smart to dominate. Bad drivers should ALWAYS get ripped apart. Just like stupid infantry gets killed right away. If someone runs at my tank with full health and tried to throw an AV nade at me, or hit me with a Mass Driver, they die because they were stupid, not because my tank is OP. Just as if someone drives their tank right into the middle of a group of infantry and gets AV naded, it is not AV nades that are OP, it is the driver who is stupid.
I look forward to keeping this discussion going, hopefully we can get some more information out there for the Devs to read.
I usually don't like you, but this post has some merit.
3 minutes in the middle of a battlefield is absolutely ridiculous. In Chromosome, with good AV effort, you might do a good 15 seconds and that was plenty in my opinion, but right now, it's about 5 seconds. 5 is too short. 30 is absolutely way too long. With the damage output of a tank, in 15 seconds, a good gunner can gun down 10 dudes with ease.
I absolutely agree that bad drivers should be punished as they were in Chromosome, but good drivers should be able to go 25:0 EVERY game just like the good assault players do (I'm talking THE BEST assault guys and the BEST tankers). It was like that in Chromosome. Give a 2.5 mil Saggy to a bad tanker and it wouldnt last 30 seconds past the redline, but put it in the hands of someone like Slap or Zitro and the tank would be a win button. It sounds OP, but with only 20 guys capable of that due to their tactical knowledge, it was fine because you'd meet a tanker of that calibre only in CBs or 1 in 20 matches, at the most.
In PC, i agree that tanks should be expendable, but only because of the huge amount of proto AV that everybody has and the fact that there are other extremely powerful havs dominating open areas. Right now, one proto av can deny a 300m radius to any tank. Bring that number up to 3 proto AV and it's pretty balanced. This way, a single AV guy can swing the balance of power in favor of his own tanker, should he choose to exist, but not solo good tankers as often as they do. (I'm speaking in the case of the average tanker here. Personally, it's not common that a team will dedicate, literally, 5 guys to my destruction in pubs or PC)
On the topic of AV grenades, I feel they are too powerful at such low levels for their fitting cost, sp investment, and isk. Standard ones should be able to solo mlt lavs every time (nerf mlt lavs), adv ones should be able to drive a tank back if used by 2 mercs, and pro ones should be just as capeable as an ishukone forge in close range- which they are not. For their cost, AV grenades (even standard) are the most effective AV weapons due to their dps. 6 guys throwing adv av grenades can do 27000 damage in 3 seconds (resistances ignored). No tank can handle that. I propose either a CPU/PG increase so the user cannot be effective vs infantry and tanks at close range OR a straight up damage nerf of 30% to all levels. As you said, isk balancing does not work.
I have an idea that there is a ratio unique to every tanker regarding how many AV units of the same meta level of his tank it takes to kill him without him running away or getting in cover for more than 3 seconds at a time. For me, it is 1:5- that is to say, my standard tank with meta 3 modules can handle up to 5 standard AV weapons until I stand no chance of survival. For most tankers, the ratio is 1:3, for those with fully specced tanks of one kind, it is 1:6 if they have good tactics and experience; for the worst of us, it is 1:2 or even 1:1 if theyre not using a keyboard- though that is rare. That means that a true proto tank needs to be able to tank the dps of 3 proto AV for the average tanker. This formula, however, is highly subjective as there are too many variables, and should not be used as the perfect idea to balance AV, as some maps that are open with high cover, would bring the ratio up to 1:8 for me, and others down to 1:2 in closed spaces where i cant shoot back-even 1:1 if im caught with my hardeners off and boosters on recharge.
Still, just ideas and I'll keep it civil, this time, if you do, AG. I think I'll let Void do the trollin' for now. :P |
Pikachu Power
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Posted - 2013.07.19 20:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:I don't know if anyone else has posted it.. but it looks like the devs are acknowledging this thread. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1074375#post1074375So that's gotta mean something. Here was a thought I had yesterday too. What if CCP introduced an "Assault LAV" variant which had a driver operated turret and two seats? Could give vehicle drivers something to use in pubs other than 1.5 million isk HAVs. With high level vehicle skills im sure an assault LAV could be quite terrifying in the right hands, and only cost ~400k isk instead of ~1500k isk. Sounds cool... hell i'd even spec into that. Seriously they take this thread over this one https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=925183#post925183Which pretty much contains all the problems with vehicles and goes into detail I wasted my ******* time
you have good ideas, sir. i think ill bump for you |
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Posted - 2013.07.19 20:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
I can handle 1 proto AV and win because ill shoot him. 2 and ill run. 3 and im dead. that is technically how it should be, which is why we need proto havs. |
Pikachu Power
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Posted - 2013.07.20 13:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
WE DID IT! CCP RESPONDED! CHECK THE WEEKLY UPDATES STICKY! |
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