DUST Search - [Feedback/request] Logistics dropsuit comparison and analysis

KingBabar wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Using the fitting tool, I did an experiment to test out how meaningful these differences are. The constant will be the items and modules, the variables are the logistics dropsuits. This is to test the potential of the suit, I'm not saying this is how a smart player would choose to use them.
Experiment: Max skills + Duvolle AR + maximum tanking

ak.0 Logistics
3 Complex shield extenders
3 Complex armor Plates
403 shields & 604 armor (972 EHP)
Speed: movement 3.53 m/s sprint 5.18 m/s
171 CPU & 6 PG remaining

ck.0 Logistics
4 Complex shield extenders + 1 enhanced shield extender
3 Complex armor plates + 1 enhanced armor plate
618 shields & 659 armor (1277 EHP)
Speed: movement 3.74 m/s sprint 5.49 m/s
26 CPU & 0 PG remaining

mk.0 Logistics
4 Complex shield extenders
4 Complex armor plates
368 shields & 693 armor (1094 EHP)
Speed: movement 3.76 m/s sprint 5.53 m/s
100 CPU & 0 PG remaining

gk.0 Logistics
2 Complex shield Extenders + 1 enhanced shield extender
5 Complex armor plates
330 shields & 827 armor (1157 EHP)
Speed: movement 3.5 m/s sprint 5.12 m/s
142 CPU & 4 PG remaining

Ordering from best to worse
Most HP potential: ck.0, gk.0, mk.0, ak.0
Most versatile (most module slots): ck.0, mk.0, gk.0, ak.0
Fastest while tanked: mk.0, ck.0, ak.0, gk.0
Most capable of support (equipment slots): mk.0 & gk.0 tied for first place. ck.0 & ak.0 tied for second place.
_________________________________________________________

Conclusion:

The prototype Amarr logi sacrificed the gain of a module and the gain of an extra equipment slot to get a sidearm. I propose giving the prototype and advanced Amarr logistics 1 more module slot and appropriate PG/CPU to use it, or 1 more equipment slot to use. A sidearm is worth a module slot, OR an equipment slot, but not both.

The Caldari sacrificed the gain of 1 equipment slot for getting 2 more module slots instead of one than its assault counterpart. This combined with the 25% (when maxed out) shield extender efficacy boost per level, makes it a bit overpowered. I suggest removing the extra module slot gain, and replacing it with an equipment slot or something. Seriously, 9 module slots is just too much.
EDIT: Perhaps it should get a PG/CPU reduction to shield extenders as a bonus instead.

The Minmatar and Gallente logis are balanced. They are tanky support who are slower than their assault counterparts, and carry lots of equipment to do the job. No problem there.

IMPORTANT EDIT: To illustrate how terrible of a balance issue this is, consider the fact that with all skills maxed out, a SENTINEL ak.0 can only fit 1258 EHP. The Caldari logi fits 1277, that is 19 more EHP than a freakin heavy sentinel with the most HP it can fit! and guess what else, the Caldari logi with its superior EHP is FASTER than the ak.0 heavy when fitted this way; Fully tanked sentinel moves at 3.1 m/s, and sprints at 4.34 m/s.
Boundless HMG + 1 complex shield extender + 2 complex armor plates + 1 enhanced armor plate + 1 basic plate
That is 1258 total EHP, 3.31 movement speed, and 4.34 sprint speed.

You logi(c) is flawed.

To fit 1277 HP on a Cal logi you need 4 complex plates and 5 complex extenders.

This cost in terms of PG 11*9=99.

The suit has 78*1,3= 101,4 as max PG, so you're left with a suit with an Exile AR and no nanohives, nades or any other equipment. Its a silly comparison and too far away from whats actually a vialbe combat fit....

And as I've mentioned many times before, to fit a Proto Cal suit I need both a PG and a CPU upgrade to fit the rest of the stuff I want, it should be taken into consideration...


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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4831	Posted - 2013.07.11 06:34:00 - [1] - Quote Will be continued in the first 2 comments below Some logistics dropsuits, and sometimes thee specialization as a whole have been called overpowered. The purpose of this thread is to analyze the stats and features of the specialization to see what is working and what is broken by comparing the logi suits to each other, and their assault counterparts. Let's start with some simple stats. Amarr Logistics ak.0: 3 Highs 3 Lows (6 mod slots) 3 Equipment Slots 1 Light weapon slot 1 Sidearm slot 66 PG 390 CPU 120 Shields & 180 Armor (300 EHP) Shield recharge rate: 17HP/s Shield recharge delay: regular 6.0s & depleted 5.0s Speed: movement 4.5m/s & sprint 6.4m/s Cadari Logistics ck.0: 5 Highs 4 Lows (9 mod slots) 3 Equipment Slots 1 Light weapon slot 0 Sidearm slots 78 PG 390 CPU 180 Shields & 90 Armor (270 EHP) Shield recharge rate: 20HP/s Shield recharge delay: regular 4.0s & depleted 6.0s Speed: movement 4.7m/s & sprint 6.6m/s Gallente Logistics ck.0: 3 Highs 5 Lows (8 mod slots) 4 Equipment Slots 1 Light weapon slot 0 sidearm slots 90 PG 390 CPU 90 Shields and 180 Armor Shield recharge rate: 15HP/s Shield recharge delay: regular 6.0s & depleted 6.0s Speed: movement 4.7m/s & sprint 6.6m/s Minmatar Logistics mk.0: 4 Highs 4 Lows (8 mod slots) 4 Equipment Slots 1 Light weapon slot 0 sidearm slots 78 PG 390 CPU 90 Shields and 150 Armor Shield recharge rate: 20HP/s Shield recharge delay: regular 6.0s & depleted 6.0s Speed: movement 5.0m/s & sprint 7.0m/s _________________________________________________________ I will compare the logis to their assault counterparts to see what they lose and gain. This is to see if any logistics gains something too much, or loses something too much. Amarr logistics compared to Amarr assaults Gains of the Amarr Logistics compared to Amarr Assault 2 more equipment slots 30 CPU more 5 seconds less for depleted shield recharge delays Sacrifices of the Amarr logistics compared to Amarr assault 30 less shields and armor (60 less base HP) 3HP/s less shield recharge rate 0.3m/s slower movement and sprinting speed Caldari logistics compared to Caldari assaults Gains of the Caldari Logistics compared to Caldari Assault 1 more high and 1 low slot for a total of 9 slots 2 more equipment slots 18 PG and 90 CPU more 1 second less for shield recharge and 2 seconds less for depleted shield recharge delays Sacrifices of the Caldari logi compared to Caldari assault loses sidearm 30 less shields and armor (60 less base HP) 5HP/s less shield recharge rate 0.3m/s slower movement speed and 0.4m/s slower sprinting speed Gallente logistics compared to Gallente assaults Gains of the Gallente Logistics compared to Gallente Assault 1 more low slot for a total of 8 slots 3 more equipment slots 30PG and 90CPU more 1 second less for shield recharge and 4 seconds less for depleted shield recharge delays Sacrifices of the Gallente logi compared to Gallente assault loses sidearm 40 less shields and 30 less armor (70 less base HP) 5HP/s less shield recharge rate 0.3m/s slower movement speed and 0.4m/s slower sprinting speed Minmatar logistics compared to Minmatar assaults Gains of the Minmatar Logistics compared to Minmatar Assault 2 more low slots 3 more equipment slots 30PG and 90CPU more 15 more armor 1 second less for shield recharge and 4 seconds less for depleted shield recharge delays Sacrifices of the Minmatar Logistics compared to Minmatar Assault 1 less high slot loses sidearm 60 less shields 5HP/s less shield recharge rate 0.3m/s slower movement speed and 0.4m/s slower sprinting speed Results: The Gallente and Minmatar logistics dropsuits gain one more module slot, and the Amarr one does not gain any slot (fair trade for the sidearm I believe). The logistics ck.0 however gains a whopping 2 slots more than its assault counterpart. This is massive gain is in no way warranted. It could be argued that having only 3 equipment slots warrants the extra module slot, but the ak.0 logi also only has 3 equipment slots; sure the ak.0 gains a sidearm, but that is already in exchange for a module slot. sidearm is not worth both an equipment slot AND a module slot. The ck.0 logistics needs to lose a module slot, and some PG/CPU that the removed module slot required.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4831	Posted - 2013.07.11 06:34:00 - [2] - Quote Using the fitting tool, I did an experiment to test out how meaningful these differences are. The constant will be the items and modules, the variables are the logistics dropsuits. This is to test the potential of the suit, I'm not saying this is how a smart player would choose to use them. Experiment: Max skills + Duvolle AR + maximum tanking ak.0 Logistics 3 Complex shield extenders 3 Complex armor Plates 403 shields & 604 armor (972 EHP) Speed: movement 3.53 m/s sprint 5.18 m/s 171 CPU & 6 PG remaining ck.0 Logistics 4 Complex shield extenders + 1 enhanced shield extender 3 Complex armor plates + 1 enhanced armor plate 618 shields & 659 armor (1277 EHP) Speed: movement 3.74 m/s sprint 5.49 m/s 26 CPU & 0 PG remaining mk.0 Logistics 4 Complex shield extenders 4 Complex armor plates 368 shields & 693 armor (1094 EHP) Speed: movement 3.76 m/s sprint 5.53 m/s 100 CPU & 0 PG remaining gk.0 Logistics 2 Complex shield Extenders + 1 enhanced shield extender 5 Complex armor plates 330 shields & 827 armor (1157 EHP) Speed: movement 3.5 m/s sprint 5.12 m/s 142 CPU & 4 PG remaining Ordering from best to worse Most HP potential: ck.0, gk.0, mk.0, ak.0 Most versatile (most module slots): ck.0, mk.0, gk.0, ak.0 Fastest while tanked: mk.0, ck.0, ak.0, gk.0 Most capable of support: mk.0 & gk.0 tied for first place. gk.0 & ak.0 tied for second place. _________________________________________________________ Conclusion: The prototype Amarr logi sacrificed the gain of a module and the gain of an extra equipment slot to get a sidearm. I propose giving the prototype and advanced Amarr logistics 1 more module slot and appropriate PG/CPU to use it, or 1 more equipment slot to use. A sidearm is worth a module slot, OR an equipment slot, but not both. The Caldari sacrificed the gain of 1 equipment slot for getting 2 more module slots instead of one than its assault counterpart. This combined with the 25% (when maxed out) shield extender efficacy boost per level, makes it a bit overpowered. I suggest removing the extra module slot gain, and replacing it with an equipment slot or something. Seriously, 9 module slots is just too much. The Minmatar and Gallente logis are balanced. They are tanky support who are slower than their assault counterparts, and carry lots of equipment to do the job. No problem there.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4831	Posted - 2013.07.11 06:34:00 - [3] - Quote About the ADV Amarr logi: All ADV logi dropsuits have 3 equipment slots, while the Amarr one only has 2. Why? The ADV Amarr logi doesn't have a sidearm, and its extra bit of HP compared to the others is easily negated by having the least amount of module slots. There is no reason at all why it should have only 2 equipment slots. The alternative is to give it a siddearm.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4831	Posted - 2013.07.11 10:34:00 - [4] - Quote Any more thoughts?
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4839	Posted - 2013.07.11 14:45:00 - [5] - Quote Guess I should add a TL;DR version later
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4842	Posted - 2013.07.12 01:24:00 - [6] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: I'd add that the Amarr logistics sacrifices PG compared to the Amarr Assault (for some reason). Every other logi has 78 PG base on their k.0 model. The Ak.0 has 66 PG, which is less than the Amarr Assault. It's the only logistics suit to have less PG than its assault variant. That is true.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4842	Posted - 2013.07.12 01:51:00 - [7] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: Alright, I know a lot of complaints have been made about Logis being over effective but those complaints have never really specified that it's the Caldari Logi that is breaking the game. The problem lies in how incredibly versatile they are while having an effective HP that could match a heavy. As it stands, there's little reason to go into Caldari Assault instead of Logi because all the bonuses of the Logi, ironically, make it a way better Assault. 5 HP/s on armor, 25% more effective shield extenders, 2 extra slots (1 high, 1 low) and 2 extra equipment slots make the suits play more like Super Assaults rather than Logis. The sacrifice they make is barely worth mentioning: losing a sidearm, a little bit base HP, and a tiny but slower. The 25% bonus to shield extenders stacking with the 10% bonus from skills makes a 66 HP extender yield 91 HP per extender. Fitting just ONE completely negates the EHP bonus and they still have 4 more slots to fit more extenders. The loss of a sidearm isn't worth mentioning either. I run CalAssault and I don't fit a sidearm because I can't sacrifice the tank if I want any hope of takin a Logi on. The fact of the matter is most of the top corps realized this early on and have taken advantage of it by having every one of their top assaults spec into Logis. You have no idea how many PC battles against Internal Error or TeamPlayers or what have you I've played where 90% of the enemy team are Caldari Logis. Their bonus is too strong and they have way too much fitting potential. I'm almost sad I specced into Assault. Looking at the Logis makes me see just how much potential I'm missing out on. My suggestion: reduce base CPU/PG of all Logis and change the Logi suit bonus to what the Gallente currently get (25% less cost of equipment CPU/PG cost). Remove one low slot from Caldari Logi and change their bonus to 2% per level instead of 5%. This would make fitting a Logi like an Assault much harder while preserving their support role. I would like to point out that an ak.0 sentinel under these same conditions can fit: Boundless HMG + 1 complex shield extender + 2 complex armor plates + 1 enhanced armor plate + 1 basic plate That is 1258 total EHP, 3.31 movement speed, and 4.34 sprint speed. the Caldari logi surpasses it (which is a big problem), but only the Caldari logi does. The ck.0 is a major balance problem, but not the others.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4866	Posted - 2013.07.13 05:06:00 - [8] - Quote pew pew pew balance
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4867	Posted - 2013.07.13 05:20:00 - [9] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Logistics gk.0 has 3/5 with 4 equip. Logistics ck.0 has 5/4 with 3 equip. You can argue that 1 equip =/= 1 low slot... and that's okay... but if you take one their low slots then they should probably get a 4th equip slot so they effectively mirror Logi gk.0s. I suggested that in post 2 in the conclusion part "I suggest removing the extra module slot gain, and replacing it with an equipment slot or something"
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4867	Posted - 2013.07.13 06:00:00 - [10] - Quote hackerzilla wrote: Stop claiming the cal logi is god mode. You're only exclaiming the good parts: for example saying that caldari logi has highest eHP POTENTIAL in the game is true but then you wouldn't have any space for equipment, grenades and most light weapons. Also it would rewuire a tremendous amount of SP + no side arm. Some people just need to GTFO and adapt or die... Leave the cal logi alone ur just bad... Git gud bro Most of the other prototype logis have no sidearms, and they all require tremendous amounts of SP. You're either stupid or a troll, especially if you don't find it a problem that it has more EHP potential then a prototype sentinel heavy. How about you git gud bro, and stop using a crutch.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4868	Posted - 2013.07.13 08:24:00 - [11] - Quote A-Incoherent-Bullet wrote: I have 2 questions 1) You do realize that apart from the Ammar, all the logis have 12 slots ( highs + lows + equipment) . If you we're to take one slot from the cal, wouldn't you have to take it from the other two? 2) On the max tank calculations, did you factor in a gernade or primany, I see a lot of very low CPU/PG which would be the dreaded Invaild Fitting. Another suggestion is to add fitting costs and amount of sp needed to get into these roles. I'll follow this and am impressed with the amount of work needed to work all this out. 1) I suggested replacing the extra module slot with an equipment slot in the conclusion section of post 2. 2) In the the max tank calculations, I factored in light weapons, and used a prototype assault rifle for all of them, but not grenade. The max tank experiment was to get a glimpse of how much HP could be tanked, it was not meant to be an accurate representation of how most players would choose to fit their suits.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4868	Posted - 2013.07.13 08:56:00 - [12] - Quote A-Incoherent-Bullet wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: A-Incoherent-Bullet wrote: I have 2 questions 1) You do realize that apart from the Ammar, all the logis have 12 slots ( highs + lows + equipment) . If you we're to take one slot from the cal, wouldn't you have to take it from the other two? 2) On the max tank calculations, did you factor in a gernade or primany, I see a lot of very low CPU/PG which would be the dreaded Invaild Fitting. Another suggestion is to add fitting costs and amount of sp needed to get into these roles. I'll follow this and am impressed with the amount of work needed to work all this out. 1) I suggested replacing the extra module slot with an equipment slot in the conclusion section of post 2. 2) In the the max tank calculations, I factored in light weapons, and used a prototype assault rifle for all of them, but not grenade. The max tank experiment was to get a glimpse of how much HP could be tanked, it was not meant to be an accurate representation of how most players would choose to fit their suits. Yeah but then you just make it have the same slot layout of the min logi just flipped from shield to amour. I agree something should be done but this is madness. Instead of nerfing everything I have some suggestions. 1) Flip the cal logi bonus to the cal assault 2) Force players to fill at least 50% of the equipment 3) Buff the assaults bonuses 4) Allow proto assaults and scouts a second equipment slot. In no way am I saying that all of these should go into effect but less try to buff something instead of nerfing. 1) There is a theme with the specializations; assaults get bonuses to weapons, and logis get other stuff, so giving it to the caldari assault wouldn't make sense IMO. 2) Forcing players to fit their suits a certain way is against the design philosophy of CCP since they want us to be able to fit how we want, will likely never happen. 3) The Minmatar and Amarr assault bonus are pretty useful IMO. I haven't used the others, so can't say much about those. 4) I' be fine if all scouts could get a second equipment slot since they aren't very good for combat, but not assaults, even if only at prototype levels. Assaults getting a 2nd equipment slot would diminish the value of logis.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4873	Posted - 2013.07.13 09:30:00 - [13] - Quote A-Incoherent-Bullet wrote: So what would be the fix, if you was in ccp shoes. How could they balance the logis by keeping the total amount of slots in line with each other and then in turn balance the logi with the other specializations? I just can't think of a way tbh, but I rather do enjoy ur post. I just hope that true balance is discovered by you, the community, or ccp in due time. Personally I rather see gradual buffs instead of nerfs constantly. I would still just remove a low slot, and adding an equipment so it would have 5 high slots, and 3 lows. The Minmatar one has 4 highs and 4 lows, so it would be different enough for the sake of variety. I would consider this a change, but not really a nerf.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4873	Posted - 2013.07.13 09:46:00 - [14] - Quote A-Incoherent-Bullet wrote: I wouldn't mind that all,and would welcome that change. I do think that good points were discussed. That settles the cal, min and gal logis. Now just give the Ammar logi some love. The advanced one needs a sidearm, or an extra equipment slot. It only has 2 equipment slots unlike every other advanced logi, and has less module slot. There is no reason why it should have only 2 equipment slot. The prototype one needs either an extra equipment slot, or an extra module slot. I would add an extra low slot personally.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4888	Posted - 2013.07.14 10:31:00 - [15] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: The Amarr Logi gets totally screwed, they have such limited mod space for a sidearm and slower speed vs other logis. Plus they cannot fully take advantage of their racial bonus. I think some more PG and one more high slot (maybe a equipment instead) and they would be ok. You know the Cal Logi racial bonus is not absolutely game breaking, it just doesn't fit with the other logis. It fits more for an assault suit or a heavy suit. It would fit a heavy, but not an assault since assault bonuses have to do with weapons. Perhaps it should get a PG/CPU reduction to shield extenders instead.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 5011	Posted - 2013.07.16 08:39:00 - [16] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: When directly comparing the assault variants to their logistics counterparts, I think you should include the effect of bonuses as well. The 5 HP/s you get from armour repair is significant on all logis, as it allows you to get away with not fitting a repairer or alternatively it strengthens your tank, as in the case of the gk.0. Some of the other bonuses are also notable - the shield extender strength bonus on the ck.0 logistics should be noted when comparing it to the assault version. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Most capable of support: mk.0 & gk.0 tied for first place. gk.0 & ak.0 tied for second place. You also put gk.0 in here twice. I think the second gk.0 should be a ck.0? Oops, yes, should be ck.0 the 2nd time. Fixing it now.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 5022	Posted - 2013.07.16 11:02:00 - [17] - Quote KingBabar wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Using the fitting tool, I did an experiment to test out how meaningful these differences are. The constant will be the items and modules, the variables are the logistics dropsuits. This is to test the potential of the suit, I'm not saying this is how a smart player would choose to use them. Experiment: Max skills + Duvolle AR + maximum tanking ak.0 Logistics 3 Complex shield extenders 3 Complex armor Plates 403 shields & 604 armor (972 EHP) Speed: movement 3.53 m/s sprint 5.18 m/s 171 CPU & 6 PG remaining ck.0 Logistics 4 Complex shield extenders + 1 enhanced shield extender 3 Complex armor plates + 1 enhanced armor plate 618 shields & 659 armor (1277 EHP) Speed: movement 3.74 m/s sprint 5.49 m/s 26 CPU & 0 PG remaining mk.0 Logistics 4 Complex shield extenders 4 Complex armor plates 368 shields & 693 armor (1094 EHP) Speed: movement 3.76 m/s sprint 5.53 m/s 100 CPU & 0 PG remaining gk.0 Logistics 2 Complex shield Extenders + 1 enhanced shield extender 5 Complex armor plates 330 shields & 827 armor (1157 EHP) Speed: movement 3.5 m/s sprint 5.12 m/s 142 CPU & 4 PG remaining Ordering from best to worse Most HP potential: ck.0, gk.0, mk.0, ak.0 Most versatile (most module slots): ck.0, mk.0, gk.0, ak.0 Fastest while tanked: mk.0, ck.0, ak.0, gk.0 Most capable of support (equipment slots): mk.0 & gk.0 tied for first place. ck.0 & ak.0 tied for second place. _________________________________________________________ Conclusion: The prototype Amarr logi sacrificed the gain of a module and the gain of an extra equipment slot to get a sidearm. I propose giving the prototype and advanced Amarr logistics 1 more module slot and appropriate PG/CPU to use it, or 1 more equipment slot to use. A sidearm is worth a module slot, OR an equipment slot, but not both. The Caldari sacrificed the gain of 1 equipment slot for getting 2 more module slots instead of one than its assault counterpart. This combined with the 25% (when maxed out) shield extender efficacy boost per level, makes it a bit overpowered. I suggest removing the extra module slot gain, and replacing it with an equipment slot or something. Seriously, 9 module slots is just too much. EDIT: Perhaps it should get a PG/CPU reduction to shield extenders as a bonus instead. The Minmatar and Gallente logis are balanced. They are tanky support who are slower than their assault counterparts, and carry lots of equipment to do the job. No problem there. IMPORTANT EDIT: To illustrate how terrible of a balance issue this is, consider the fact that with all skills maxed out, a SENTINEL ak.0 can only fit 1258 EHP. The Caldari logi fits 1277, that is 19 more EHP than a freakin heavy sentinel with the most HP it can fit! and guess what else, the Caldari logi with its superior EHP is FASTER than the ak.0 heavy when fitted this way; Fully tanked sentinel moves at 3.1 m/s, and sprints at 4.34 m/s. Boundless HMG + 1 complex shield extender + 2 complex armor plates + 1 enhanced armor plate + 1 basic plate That is 1258 total EHP, 3.31 movement speed, and 4.34 sprint speed. You logi(c) is flawed. To fit 1277 HP on a Cal logi you need 4 complex plates and 5 complex extenders. This cost in terms of PG 119=99. The suit has 781,3= 101,4 as max PG, so you're left with a suit with an Exile AR and no nanohives, nades or any other equipment. Its a silly comparison and too far away from whats actually a vialbe combat fit.... And as I've mentioned many times before, to fit a Proto Cal suit I need both a PG and a CPU upgrade to fit the rest of the stuff I want, it should be taken into consideration... All skills are maximum for the sake of the experiment, and all suits are using Duvolle AR, no nades, and nothing else as a constant. Like I explained, it is not meant to be an accurate representation of how someone would fit the suit, it is only to illustrate potential, but yeah, according to the fitting tool you can fit a Duvolle AR and 1277 HP (no need for exile).
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 5028	Posted - 2013.07.16 16:58:00 - [18] - Quote KingBabar wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: KingBabar wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: -Stuff- You logi(c) is flawed. To fit 1277 HP on a Cal logi you need 4 complex plates and 5 complex extenders. This cost in terms of PG 119=99. The suit has 781,3= 101,4 as max PG, so you're left with a suit with an Exile AR and no nanohives, nades or any other equipment. Its a silly comparison and too far away from whats actually a vialbe combat fit.... And as I've mentioned many times before, to fit a Proto Cal suit I need both a PG and a CPU upgrade to fit the rest of the stuff I want, it should be taken into consideration... All skills are maximum for the sake of the experiment, and all suits are using Duvolle AR, no nades, and nothing else as a constant. Like I explained, it is not meant to be an accurate representation of how someone would fit the suit, it is only to illustrate potential, but yeah, according to the fitting tool you can fit a Duvolle AR and 1277 HP (no need for exile). Now that I'm home I can test this out in practice... So I fit a Duvolle, 5 shield extenders, 2 complex plates, and 2 enhanced plates.... I get 1233 HP as maximum, with all skills. I use 103 of 102 PG (I can get around that with the AR fitting skill, hey I can even get 1 extra PG if I spend all the 1.8 M skillpoints thats needed) I use 449 of 512 CPU. So I have a very slow suit with very little stamina, (3,91 move, 5,75 sprint (I have maxed stamina skills) 120,75 total and a regen of 12,6. Its 20 shield regen and 5 armor regen is way too slow compared to the massive amount of HP. I have no nades I have no sidearm I can't carry ammo I can't carry any equipment att all. This way of comparig suits is utter BS and does't serve ay purpose. It would be much better to compare actual VIABLE fits against each other rather than running some number theory, especially when the numbers are flawed. Here is a viable Cal Logi setup: Duvolle 497 Shields 197 Armor 2 damage mods 3 shield extenders 1 basic Cardiac regulator 2 enhanced erroscale plates 1 CPU uppgrade 1 Core locus nades 1 enhanced scanner (the cheap to fit one) 1 basic Remote explosives 1 Enhanced Nanohive I What is viable for 1 may not necessarily be viable for another, so its impossible to have constants in the experiment based on viability. All dropsuits were fitted with the same sort of things, duvolle AR, shield extenders, and armor plate, the ck.0 didn't get a different treatment than the others. Regarding the actual numbers, something is odd. Last time I got 1277 and I double checked, but now I get is 1221 with the same ingredients, not even the 1233 you're getting. I tried your tanking ingredients but I got 1236 instead of 1233. I have it set to all skills level 5, something is weird. I just checked the sentinel ak.0 to make sure I didn't up my numbers, and it can fit 1591 HP: 559 shields, 1012 armor, 1 complex shield extender, 4 complex armor plates, 5 PG and 102 CPU remaining. Even with skills its 1242 by using 3 complex armor plates and 1 enhanced. Just re-retried th ck.0 fitting again, and its giving me exactly 1206 total HP, and I have all complex extenders, and all complex armor plates. This would have been invalid last I checked. I have to redo the experiment... but too tired to do it now[ Anyone know if there were any changes to the fitting tool since the 11th?