DUST Search - So everyone hates Forge Guns now, huh?

ER-Bullitt wrote:

Here are the major forum complaints over the past week or two in a nutshell from my perspective (I am a dedicated heavy, and run AV the majority of the time in pub matches to protect my squad from Tanks, LAV's, Dropships and then Infantry and Installations when no other major threats are present).

Forge guns are OP against Dropships:
Agreed, buff dropship health or survivability. It is very easy to take them out if you have skills with the forge gun (and by skills, I mean the ability to aim, lead, time and land your shots.... I've been running forge guns for months btw)

Forge guns (specifically proto) are OP against Tanks (most likely militia, or **** fit tankers):
Working as intended, it takes me at least 4 shots to take down a well built tank. Yesterday, I was perched on the dome, unloaded a full clip into a missile turret madruger I think it was, he parked under the dome out of my LOS with about 25% of his armor left. I reloaded, jumped down, driver was repairing his tank (or possibly trying to recall it).. He hopped back in, tried to run me over, I blapped his tank, then blapped him after he hopped out for a 2nd time. He had nobody else with him... but I bet he was pissed I killed his tank so "easily" with 6 shots from my ishukone (4 from overhead, 2 from the ground 10m from his tank).. Why was he running solo? If he had 2 squad members with him in the turrets, or who would have jumped out, they may have been able to take me out before I blew his tank to smitherines.

Forge guns are OP against Infantry:
This argument seems to always be tied to forge gunners who position themselves on highpoints overwatching the battlefield. I do not see any complaints about forge guns that do not have this specific height advantage tied to them regarding anti-infantry. So do you nerf the weapon, or nerf the terrain advanatage? If you eliminate the ability to take the high ground, then we are just another COD game.

Regarding the rooftop scenario, I want to know what these complainers are doing to counter the rooftop advantage? If you want to post a complaint thread about the forge gun situation, I want to hear how you have tried and failed to counter the positional advantage. Did you try taking a dropship up top? Did you try taking 2 dropships up top, one as a distraction, the other with 1-2 killers to take out the forge gunner? Did you switch to a sniper suit, or ask on comms for your squad mate sniper to suppress or kill the forge gunner? Did you call in a rail tank to counter snipe? Did you call an orbital on the elevated postiion to take out the uplinks, nanohives? Did you ask your sniper to perch on one of the higher buildings to snipe the nanohives/uplinks supporting the forge gunner?

Or, did you rush to make a new QQ


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Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven 58	Posted - 2013.07.11 01:37:00 - [1] - Quote I think the Forge Gun is great at doing what it was intended to do: taking out vehicles as well as unwary infantry. There is a certain skill to the gun that justifies it's power. It's CQC effectiveness is pretty bad as long as you know how to strafe, so the gun doesn't really break its intended mechanisms. With that said, I believe there is an imbalance right now with the forge gun's effectiveness against vehicles (particularly drop ships) that is NOT necessarily a product of the forge gun itself, but other factors that play into making the forge gun seem too good. First, dropships right now are incredibly expensive and don't really provide the pilot with enough WPs to justify its use. Couple this with the fact that a forge gun can one or two-shot a dropship and it makes it excruciating on the pilot to deal with. My foremost suggestion to this is reducing the costs of vehicles all around to make it easier to make a profit being a pilot. The other thing that's sorely needed is countermeasures. Tanks and dropships don't really have enough to counter someone forge sniping them from a tower which is why they always resort to redline railtanking. Dropships are left with nothing in that department and just become cannon fodder as soon as a forge gunner joins the field. I understand that vehicles require a lot of team coordination to truly make them effective, but having been a gunner in a dropship as witness I can say it must be incredibly frustrating to be flying around and all of a sudden your health drops and you're plummeting to the ground in your 1m ISK dropships. Pilots need some sort of warning system and dropships overall need some better damage reduction. Tanks suffer a similar problem but are at least a bit more hardy against forge guns. Overall I think CCP should work on the smaller things like pricing to at least make vehicles a profitable endeavor before taking bigger steps in balancing.
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven 62	Posted - 2013.07.11 17:35:00 - [2] - Quote ER-Bullitt wrote: Here are the major forum complaints over the past week or two in a nutshell from my perspective (I am a dedicated heavy, and run AV the majority of the time in pub matches to protect my squad from Tanks, LAV's, Dropships and then Infantry and Installations when no other major threats are present). Forge guns are OP against Dropships: Agreed, buff dropship health or survivability. It is very easy to take them out if you have skills with the forge gun (and by skills, I mean the ability to aim, lead, time and land your shots.... I've been running forge guns for months btw) Forge guns (specifically proto) are OP against Tanks (most likely militia, or **** fit tankers): Working as intended, it takes me at least 4 shots to take down a well built tank. Yesterday, I was perched on the dome, unloaded a full clip into a missile turret madruger I think it was, he parked under the dome out of my LOS with about 25% of his armor left. I reloaded, jumped down, driver was repairing his tank (or possibly trying to recall it).. He hopped back in, tried to run me over, I blapped his tank, then blapped him after he hopped out for a 2nd time. He had nobody else with him... but I bet he was pissed I killed his tank so "easily" with 6 shots from my ishukone (4 from overhead, 2 from the ground 10m from his tank).. Why was he running solo? If he had 2 squad members with him in the turrets, or who would have jumped out, they may have been able to take me out before I blew his tank to smitherines. Forge guns are OP against Infantry: This argument seems to always be tied to forge gunners who position themselves on highpoints overwatching the battlefield. I do not see any complaints about forge guns that do not have this specific height advantage tied to them regarding anti-infantry. So do you nerf the weapon, or nerf the terrain advanatage? If you eliminate the ability to take the high ground, then we are just another COD game. Regarding the rooftop scenario, I want to know what these complainers are doing to counter the rooftop advantage? If you want to post a complaint thread about the forge gun situation, I want to hear how you have tried and failed to counter the positional advantage. Did you try taking a dropship up top? Did you try taking 2 dropships up top, one as a distraction, the other with 1-2 killers to take out the forge gunner? Did you switch to a sniper suit, or ask on comms for your squad mate sniper to suppress or kill the forge gunner? Did you call in a rail tank to counter snipe? Did you call an orbital on the elevated postiion to take out the uplinks, nanohives? Did you ask your sniper to perch on one of the higher buildings to snipe the nanohives/uplinks supporting the forge gunner? Or, did you rush to make a new QQ See I like this. You laid out the complaints in a clear concise format and rebuked and used logic to counter or agree with certain arguments. This is what the forum should be used for. Now for the topic at hand. First, no I'm not QQing about the FG. I'm about 14m SP all into infantry. I have never had the thought that Forge Guns were too good until I got some turret skills and started being a gunner for my corp mate's Assault Dropships. That was when I realized how silly it is to be flying something so expensive and yet so weak. My only true concern with the FG is how good it is against dropships, which, again, isn't a product of the FG being too good. In my opinion a lot of the QQ would be quelled if: a) Payouts for vehicle pilots were better, and b) Dropships got a resistance and/or HP buff against. It should take at least a full clip to take down an equivalent level dropship. What you describe with your tank encounter is perfectly fine and I personally believe is fair and balanced. So, in short, leave the FG alone, buff ISK payout for vehicles somehow, and give dropships some better resistances or just release the damn proto-level dropships already.