DUST Search - HMG vs. AR

Damus Trifarn wrote:

These are my thoughts on what should be done to the HMG to make it a more viable option in Dust 514. I'm a proficient HMG user with a good track record using it. However I notice some problems with the weapon, and here is what I reccomend to fix some problems, particularly accuracy, range, and damage. To show the great imbalances in range between the two weapons I've pulled up some real world weapon ranges.

The glorious realm of Wikipedia gave me these stats for these real world weapons:

1. The M134 Minigun (I know it's an HMG, but realistically heavies are holding miniguns) has an effective range of 1000m (other sources are showing me that its even greater, even up to 1500m)

2. The M60 Machine Gun (just in case some don't think it's a minigun) has an effective range of 1,100m

3. The FAMAS AR has an effective range of 450m, the AK47 has an effective range of 350m, and the M16 550m or 800m

Again, this is Wikipedia, so anyone feel free to correct my numbers.

Someone please explain to me why both the HMG and Minigun have much greater ranges than ARs and yet in Dust ARs are outclassing HMGs in range? With the 1.2 range has been increased and there's absolute range and such, but it's not effective range, and the AR still outclasses the HMG in range because the AR still does more damage at greater ranges than the HMG. This range difference should be fixed (Though I'm suggesting we use the above numbers for these weapons. That would get messy), because while the AR should do more damage it should by no means have a range advantage over the HMG. I believe that changing the ranges could fix some problems with the HMG and make it a more viable option, or at least have an advantage over the AR.

And now to the more volatile topic, the damage:

I'm using the Boundless Heavy Machine Gun vs. Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle
Duvolle: 37.4 x 60 = 2244 dmg per clip
Boundless: 19.8 x 425 = 8415 dmg per clip
Not much need to change that, right? HMG far outclasses the AR in damage, right? Well, considering that the AR is way more accurate, combined with the fact that the range is greater and that HMG bullets have difficulty getting down shields destroy any advantage of dmg per clip, not to mention overheating on part of the HMG. How to even the odds? Well, I do not propose a damage buff to the HMG over an extra 5 points, and even then I'm skeptical about that. I'd settle for evening out damage to shields and armor, but that goes against the type of ammunition used, so some may find problems with that. So I'm thinking that the AR could lose some accuracy. Honestly, if I want a laser beam I'll invest in the Laser Rifle, not the Assault Rifle. Also, make the HMG more accurate so that the gun can actually use 425 bullets (minus overheating limit) per clip effectively.

My reasoning behind these recommendations are that the HMG is outclassed by the Assault rifle in places where it should flourish, damage and range. Before we freak out and say that I want the HMG to be the new AR, hear me out.

HMG's are traditionally used as guns to mow down enemies with brute force. Currently the HMG has no brute force. If we can give the HMG damage, accuracy, and range, here's what happens: say a soldier with an AR tries to find an objective, then sees a Heavy with a HMG in front of him. What currently happens: either bunny hops or a quick kill with an absurd amount of damage dished out compared to the HMG because the HMG can't aim or have meaningful damage to save its life. What should happen: AR guy finds cover and tactically takes the Heavy down because a direct assault would be suicide due to the HMG's accuracy and damage. 9 times out of 10 a Heavy with an HMG should win 1v1 encounters unless in close quarters. The HMG's turning speed is a good thing. The weapon should be a trade of speed and mobility for power and accuracy. Currently, its a trade of speed and mobility for a gun with poor accuracy, poor damage, and no advantages that an AR doesn't already have. Just my thoughts on the weapon, and would love to hear feedback.


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nukel head Knights of No Republic 45	Posted - 2013.07.09 19:49:00 - [1] - Quote Damus Trifarn wrote: These are my thoughts on what should be done to the HMG to make it a more viable option in Dust 514. I'm a proficient HMG user with a good track record using it. However I notice some problems with the weapon, and here is what I reccomend to fix some problems, particularly accuracy, range, and damage. To show the great imbalances in range between the two weapons I've pulled up some real world weapon ranges. The glorious realm of Wikipedia gave me these stats for these real world weapons: 1. The M134 Minigun (I know it's an HMG, but realistically heavies are holding miniguns) has an effective range of 1000m (other sources are showing me that its even greater, even up to 1500m) 2. The M60 Machine Gun (just in case some don't think it's a minigun) has an effective range of 1,100m 3. The FAMAS AR has an effective range of 450m, the AK47 has an effective range of 350m, and the M16 550m or 800m Again, this is Wikipedia, so anyone feel free to correct my numbers. Someone please explain to me why both the HMG and Minigun have much greater ranges than ARs and yet in Dust ARs are outclassing HMGs in range? With the 1.2 range has been increased and there's absolute range and such, but it's not effective range, and the AR still outclasses the HMG in range because the AR still does more damage at greater ranges than the HMG. This range difference should be fixed (Though I'm suggesting we use the above numbers for these weapons. That would get messy), because while the AR should do more damage it should by no means have a range advantage over the HMG. I believe that changing the ranges could fix some problems with the HMG and make it a more viable option, or at least have an advantage over the AR. And now to the more volatile topic, the damage: I'm using the Boundless Heavy Machine Gun vs. Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle Duvolle: 37.4 x 60 = 2244 dmg per clip Boundless: 19.8 x 425 = 8415 dmg per clip Not much need to change that, right? HMG far outclasses the AR in damage, right? Well, considering that the AR is way more accurate, combined with the fact that the range is greater and that HMG bullets have difficulty getting down shields destroy any advantage of dmg per clip, not to mention overheating on part of the HMG. How to even the odds? Well, I do not propose a damage buff to the HMG over an extra 5 points, and even then I'm skeptical about that. I'd settle for evening out damage to shields and armor, but that goes against the type of ammunition used, so some may find problems with that. So I'm thinking that the AR could lose some accuracy. Honestly, if I want a laser beam I'll invest in the Laser Rifle, not the Assault Rifle. Also, make the HMG more accurate so that the gun can actually use 425 bullets (minus overheating limit) per clip effectively. My reasoning behind these recommendations are that the HMG is outclassed by the Assault rifle in places where it should flourish, damage and range. Before we freak out and say that I want the HMG to be the new AR, hear me out. HMG's are traditionally used as guns to mow down enemies with brute force. Currently the HMG has no brute force. If we can give the HMG damage, accuracy, and range, here's what happens: say a soldier with an AR tries to find an objective, then sees a Heavy with a HMG in front of him. What currently happens: either bunny hops or a quick kill with an absurd amount of damage dished out compared to the HMG because the HMG can't aim or have meaningful damage to save its life. What should happen: AR guy finds cover and tactically takes the Heavy down because a direct assault would be suicide due to the HMG's accuracy and damage. 9 times out of 10 a Heavy with an HMG should win 1v1 encounters unless in close quarters. The HMG's turning speed is a good thing. The weapon should be a trade of speed and mobility for power and accuracy. Currently, its a trade of speed and mobility for a gun with poor accuracy, poor damage, and no advantages that an AR doesn't already have. Just my thoughts on the weapon, and would love to hear feedback. A better idea is just to remove the duvolle tactical assault rifle. Edit: Wait, what? I just read the rest of the post...the HMG is NOT supposed to flourish at range. It is supposed to shred at close range and taper off quickly at range. That's why it uses a shotgun reticule.