DUST Search - Announcement:Dev Blog: Balancing the Conquest of Planets

MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote:

Leither Yiltron wrote:

Basically it allows for a dynamic timer manipulation at the cost of clones. Here's the scenario:

MLG Pro Skeelz [MPS] is a small corp with around 100 characters in it. Counting alts and activity, their nightly PC contingent is a core of 16 players who are on the bleeding edge of SP gain (18 mil +). As such their win ratio in PC would probably be over 50% without the gear advantage. With it, they're consistently pulling up to 70-80%.

Immense Elitists [IEL] is a much larger organization. They have 500+ characters, and so they can run two teams simultaneously if they want to on a given night. They have two very competitive teams with but with average 9mil SP per players (so they're out-geared by MPS)

IEL have a numbers advantage and so they attack 2 of MPS's districts. District 1 (D1) is attacked with 150, and D2 with 166. D1 and D2 have the exact same reinforcement time. Let's say for the sake of argument that the two battles queue up at the exact same time, and that both are Cargo Hubs.

MPS see that they can't defend both at the same time. Here's what they do. We're going to assume that the FIRST battle on D2 lasts just as long as the battle on D1.

MPS fight D1 on the first battle. Their gear and skill allows them to win handily. D1 locks by the new defense rules.

Meanwhile they don't show up to D2 for the first battle. It takes just as long. IEL have 150 clones by the end.

The second fight for D2 initiates. IEL and MPS fight, MPS again win handily. The district locks due to the new defense rules.

If IEL reattack IMMEDIATELY on both districts, this will be the state of both districts when those attacks happen:

D1 = full on clones | generates 160 between two days

D2 = 450 - 150 (first defense no show) - 100 (second defense win) + 80 (second day's reinforcement) = 280

So now MPS defend D2 in the first attack and noshow on D1. Same outcomes, IEL reattacks:

D1 = 280 by the same math as D2 the last time

D2 = 280 - 100 (win first defense) + 160 (two days of reinforcement) = 340 !!!!!

So basically a core team with a gear advantage can now defend DOUBLE the districts in the same hour of reinforcement. Now there are some things to be said about adjacent hours, but in general keep in mind that this is costing IEL a lot of clones as well and morale isn't improving by facing the same team of 18mil+ SP players who you can't beat with tactics because of the gear difference.

Also keep in mind that IEL has to have tons of resources to do this: at least 6 districts because of some timer mechanics I discussed previously.

Your numbers are off, if at any point a defender takes a loss their facility goes offline and remains offline.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 30 post(s)
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 152	Posted - 2013.07.09 18:14:00 - [1] - Quote Thanks for sharing the incoming changes with us, and for trying to fix some of the problems Planetary Conquest have. That said, I can't say that I liked many of those incoming changes. I think they will make PC more static and risk averse than it is now. But I will wait and see before talking about them. However, there is one thing that has troubled me enough to write about it now. I think you have made harder for new corps to enter PC by themselves. This is because two of the changes you have made: 1) Genolution pack gives you only 100 clones. 2) A follow up attack is only allowed if you win. 1) Means that a corp that has no districts and wants to enter PC, will have to attack at least with a 3 to 1 clone disadvantage, unless they are lucky enough to find a district that is not full. 2) Means that you need to win 2 or 3 battles in a row to take a district. If the defender wins even only one of those battles, he will have 2 reinforcement cycles (160-200 clones) before the next attack, so their clone reserves would be at full capacity again. Which means the attacker is back to the start point in most cases, and makes conquering a district against a better opponent by attrition almost impossible. The combination of 1) and 2) makes very difficult for corps that are not already in PC to enter Molden Heath by themselves. In most cases, they have to attack with 100 clones against 300, and at least win 2 battles in a row to conquer a district. It is cheaper, yes, but their chances of being successful are lower. They may pull it off if they are a very good corps, but lets be honest here, the very good corps are already in PC.
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 157	Posted - 2013.07.09 19:50:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Flyingconejo wrote: ......super long post about new corps..... The combination of 1) and 2) makes very difficult for corps that are not already in PC to enter Molden Heath by themselves. In most cases, they have to attack with 100 clones against 300, and at least win 2 battles in a row to conquer a district. It is cheaper, yes, but their chances of being successful are lower. They may pull it off if they are a very good corps, but lets be honest here, the very good corps are already in PC. So you have to deal with this already because losing a fight sets you back 80-100 clones on your war of attrition, costing another clone pack to finish the job. The real big change is the geno packs are now only 30mil instead of 80 so the net result is cheaper even counting a loss along the way. Thanks for the answer, but that was not the point, which was that the new system makes more difficult for new corps to enter Molden Heath. You say that with the old system, a defeat sets the you back by 80-100 clones and another clone pack. That's correct. However, if you killed more than those 80-100 clones, you made some progress towards conquering that district, since the defender would have the same or a little less clones to defend against you next time. With the new system, a defeat sets the attacking corp back by 160-200 clones, forces you to buy another clone pack, and forces you to wait another day. So any progress you made towards conquering that district is erased, since killing more than 160-200 clones with the 100 the Genolution pack gives you is not realistic. The corps able to do that are already in Molden Heath, and don't need to buy Genolution packs to attack. But there is more. Since the defending corp has a free extra day before the next attack, if they have more than 1 district, they can move 80-100 extra clones from other district to the one under attack and fill its clone reserves to full capacity. They can even buy a Genolution pack of their own and drop it in that district. Most corps trying to enter PC are not elite corps. Those are already in there. The corps trying to enter will lose some battles for sure. If they feel they are not making any progress at all, they will just give up, no matter if the packs cost 30 or 80 million.
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 160	Posted - 2013.07.10 01:33:00 - [3] - Quote MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote: Leither Yiltron wrote: Basically it allows for a dynamic timer manipulation at the cost of clones. Here's the scenario: MLG Pro Skeelz [MPS] is a small corp with around 100 characters in it. Counting alts and activity, their nightly PC contingent is a core of 16 players who are on the bleeding edge of SP gain (18 mil +). As such their win ratio in PC would probably be over 50% without the gear advantage. With it, they're consistently pulling up to 70-80%. Immense Elitists [IEL] is a much larger organization. They have 500+ characters, and so they can run two teams simultaneously if they want to on a given night. They have two very competitive teams with but with average 9mil SP per players (so they're out-geared by MPS) IEL have a numbers advantage and so they attack 2 of MPS's districts. District 1 (D1) is attacked with 150, and D2 with 166. D1 and D2 have the exact same reinforcement time. Let's say for the sake of argument that the two battles queue up at the exact same time, and that both are Cargo Hubs. MPS see that they can't defend both at the same time. Here's what they do. We're going to assume that the FIRST battle on D2 lasts just as long as the battle on D1. MPS fight D1 on the first battle. Their gear and skill allows them to win handily. D1 locks by the new defense rules. Meanwhile they don't show up to D2 for the first battle. It takes just as long. IEL have 150 clones by the end. The second fight for D2 initiates. IEL and MPS fight, MPS again win handily. The district locks due to the new defense rules. If IEL reattack IMMEDIATELY on both districts, this will be the state of both districts when those attacks happen: D1 = full on clones \| generates 160 between two days D2 = 450 - 150 (first defense no show) - 100 (second defense win) + 80 (second day's reinforcement) = 280 So now MPS defend D2 in the first attack and noshow on D1. Same outcomes, IEL reattacks: D1 = 280 by the same math as D2 the last time D2 = 280 - 100 (win first defense) + 160 (two days of reinforcement) = 340 !!!!! So basically a core team with a gear advantage can now defend DOUBLE the districts in the same hour of reinforcement. Now there are some things to be said about adjacent hours, but in general keep in mind that this is costing IEL a lot of clones as well and morale isn't improving by facing the same team of 18mil+ SP players who you can't beat with tactics because of the gear difference. Also keep in mind that IEL has to have tons of resources to do this: at least 6 districts because of some timer mechanics I discussed previously. Your numbers are off, if at any point a defender takes a loss their facility goes offline and remains offline. Quoting from the dev blog: Quote: There is, however, a lingering question. Does the district still generate clones on the next reinforcement cycle if the defenders lose a battle and then win the second battle? The answer is no. If a battle is lost the district will not generate clones on the next reinforcement cycle. The underlined part means that they wont get clones the day after the attack, even if they won the second battle. But, since the attacking corp has to wait 2 days since they were defeated in the second battle, the defending corp will generate clones in the second day. On the second attack they switched the district they would defend first. His numbers are correct.