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Fiddlestaxp
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Posted - 2013.07.09 00:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Slightly mistaken. I think what you are saying is that people are misidentifying the flaylock's burst damage as being over powered.
What I see, is that the flaylocks burst damage actually IS overpowered. 3 shield extenders isn't enough to survive it. 4 is getting there. No amount of armor tanking is going to leave you standing there, left alive. It breaks armor tanking. It breaks triage tools (Why even bother trying to heal through something that you can't outheal?). It breaks scouts. The main spec that counters the flaylock is caldari logi... It is regularly used dual wield in PC because players have CORRECTLY identified that for it's CPU/PG cost, there is no weapon more effective. You just lose. Instagibbed. It is NOT balanced and the flaylock complaint threads are a sign of that, not a sign of a playerbase that doesn't understand the difference between burst and sustatined DPS.
Burst DPS is even more powerful than sustained DPS in this game... If we were playing PVE sustained would probably trump burst, but we aren't. You are left either at very very low health or dead with no little to no time to implement counter strategies. You have lost before the encounter had even started because the guy picked up a 2 PG fitting cost side arm that he correctly identified as being OP/broken.
Take a look at what the players in successful PC corps are doing right now. I can almost guarantee you that there is a flaylock for every sidearm slot that their team has (for every player that makes the inferior choice and goes with a different side arm, there is another guy on their team that is dual wielding them). It is frustrating, silly, and brings the format down as a whole.
CCP can fix this with a simple item value change. They have yet to do so for whatever reason, but have the ability to fix this RIGHT AWAY. CCP, Fix this as soon as possible. |
Fiddlestaxp
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EoN.
156
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Posted - 2013.07.09 00:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Simple solutions are usually better.
Either the flaylock pistol is balanced and we are all suffering from some sort of mass delusion, perhaps being manipulated by some unseen force...
OR the gun is both too powerful and costs it's users too little PG.
Crowds can be wrong, but they are often correct. I'd run the math down on you right now, but CCP still hasn't given me a rate of fire to work with. I can say with great certainty that it's burst damage is eye popping/jaw dropping though. |
Fiddlestaxp
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EoN.
156
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Posted - 2013.07.09 00:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aythadis Smith wrote:Can we all agree that regular Flaylocks are kinda on track while the Core gives us nightmares? Oh and dont for get the insta pop nades.
( am I seeing a pattern? Things with "Core" in the name get under my skin???)
Even basic flaylocks need their PG increased to be more in line with other sidearms.
Proto flaylock needs its PG cost increased to be more in line with BASIC sidearms -_-;;
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Fiddlestaxp
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156
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Posted - 2013.07.09 00:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
R'adeh Hunt wrote:Fiddlestaxp wrote:Simple solutions are usually better.
Either the flaylock pistol is balanced and we are all suffering from some sort of mass delusion, perhaps being manipulated by some unseen force...
OR the gun is both too powerful and costs it's users too little PG.
Crowds can be wrong, but they are often correct. I'd run the math down on you right now, but CCP still hasn't given me a rate of fire to work with. I can say with great certainty that it's burst damage is eye popping/jaw dropping though. The one point I agree with is that fitting stats of the flaylock don't seem totally in line with other sidearms. I disagree with everything else you said for reasons already mentioned. You can't "balance" a gun based on the number of whine posts on a forum!
I'm not saying that we should balance the gun on the number of the whine posts on the forum... I am saying that the whine posts have substance and reason and that a good number of the game's best players either agree with the whine post or employ the core flaylock.
SI and Outer Heaven both use them in abundance (Probably for no reason at all, I bet they just like the name). And I'm not trying to say that they are better than you and that their fitting choices are always correct, but I AM DETECTING A PATTERN. |
Fiddlestaxp
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EoN.
156
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Posted - 2013.07.09 00:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aythadis Smith wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Btw, I never hear in game stuff like "watch out, there's a flaylock above B"- people only warn about things such as knives, REs, MDs, snipers, and etc. I don't know what game you are playing but i hear "fn Flaylock" in just about every match. Usually 3 to 5 users. All speed tanked. Mostly I hear screaming over LLAVs. Mostly. Once in a blue moon I hear screams of "TANK!!!1111" but....usually dead. So much scrap metal.....
A flaylock positioned above Alpha on the map with the rings makes capturing that point impossible. That 2 PG weapon MUST be dealt with personally. No amount of HP or hacking mods or zerging will let you capture that point without going up there and killing that guy first... AND he can do it from CONSIDERABLE range. Having a flaylock in a positon above you is almost certain death. |
Fiddlestaxp
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EoN.
157
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Posted - 2013.07.09 00:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
R'adeh Hunt wrote:Fiddlestaxp wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Fiddlestaxp wrote:Simple solutions are usually better.
Either the flaylock pistol is balanced and we are all suffering from some sort of mass delusion, perhaps being manipulated by some unseen force...
OR the gun is both too powerful and costs it's users too little PG.
Crowds can be wrong, but they are often correct. I'd run the math down on you right now, but CCP still hasn't given me a rate of fire to work with. I can say with great certainty that it's burst damage is eye popping/jaw dropping though. The one point I agree with is that fitting stats of the flaylock don't seem totally in line with other sidearms. I disagree with everything else you said for reasons already mentioned. You can't "balance" a gun based on the number of whine posts on a forum! I'm not saying that we should balance the gun on the number of the whine posts on the forum... I am saying that the whine posts have substance and reason and that a good number of the game's best players either agree with the whine post or employ the core flaylock. SI and Outer Heaven both use them in abundance (Probably for no reason at all, I bet they just like the name). And I'm not trying to say that they are better than you and that their fitting choices are always correct, but I AM DETECTING A PATTERN. They really don't have substance and reason...mostly because they're whining about a proto gun killing non-proto suits. It's a good gun in the right hands, especially against non-proto users...but so are the other proto sidearms. Of course burst damage in good squads works really well...it's the same reason you sniper BS gangs in EVE or some gank squad. But just like in EVE, there are counters and drawbacks. In EVE you often give up tank if you gank fit your ship for burst damage. In Dust, you sacrifice range and the number of shots you can fire before reloading. In both cases, you can use that knowledge as a counter.
Well I am whining about it killing my proto suit too quickly. And everyone else who has a proto suit that isn't a caldari Logi is whining about the same thing. The only counter to a core flaylock is MASSIVE SHIELD TANKING. Guess we should all get to work on our Caldari Logi suits?
How can you justify it's PG cost and time to kill? I really just don't know what game you are playing. How is a weapon that can be fitted in any slot, at 2 PG cost, that can kill MOST suits in under 2.5 seconds and every suit that isn't a caldari logi in under 5 balanced?
It is Super Effective against all heavy suits, all scout suits, Gallente assault and logistics, and Min logi (It forces me to go 4 shield extenders... just so I die in 3 shots instead of 2)
It is merely effective against Min assault, amarr mediums, caldari assault and armor tanking vehicles..
It requires the addition of flux gernades to be effective against caldari logi. And only because they have insane shield buffer unavailable to other classes. Otherwise they would die like the rest.
It does too much damage, too quickly at too little PG cost. It is BROKEN. |
Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers
EoN.
158
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Posted - 2013.07.09 00:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
R'adeh Hunt wrote:Aythadis Smith wrote:Fiddlestaxp wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Fiddlestaxp wrote:Simple solutions are usually better.
Either the flaylock pistol is balanced and we are all suffering from some sort of mass delusion, perhaps being manipulated by some unseen force...
OR the gun is both too powerful and costs it's users too little PG.
Crowds can be wrong, but they are often correct. I'd run the math down on you right now, but CCP still hasn't given me a rate of fire to work with. I can say with great certainty that it's burst damage is eye popping/jaw dropping though. The one point I agree with is that fitting stats of the flaylock don't seem totally in line with other sidearms. I disagree with everything else you said for reasons already mentioned. You can't "balance" a gun based on the number of whine posts on a forum! I'm not saying that we should balance the gun on the number of the whine posts on the forum... I am saying that the whine posts have substance and reason and that a good number of the game's best players either agree with the whine post or employ the core flaylock. SI and Outer Heaven both use them in abundance (Probably for no reason at all, I bet they just like the name). And I'm not trying to say that they are better than you and that their fitting choices are always correct, but I AM DETECTING A PATTERN. Ok. i guess start the ask how and what kills us. What are we using (suit, mods, gun) vs this Flaylock user. Well, I made my post clear, A all ADV scout With 180 shields to 80 armor. Shotty, CRW charge scram. Sometimes a basic MD when I dont want to fight. Just make the target leave me alone. If you get hit with a flaylock while playing a scout you're bad at manoeuvering or simply didn't watch where you were going...aka ran into the flaylocker on his terms. You are faster than any other suit, if you can't outmanoeuver a gun with 3 shots, you need to learn to manoeuvre better. Also, ANYTHING that hits your tiny 260hp tank will kill you super quick. An SMG needs to even aim less than any of the other sidearms. A proto SMG would kill you sooooooo quickly too ;)
You are opening up a can of worms. I suggest you refrain from judging other people's skill level. We have done a pretty good job of that so far in this thread. |
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