DUST Search - [Feedback] This week I av been mostly..........TANKING

The-Errorist wrote:

Sgt Buttscratch wrote:

The-Errorist wrote:

I re-read the parts about the capacitor and better understand what you're proposing.

Since shield extender modules and armor plates would bring extra resistance with it, they would need to have low resistance with a stacking penalty so that people cant just only stack tons of 60mm plates or shield extenders for a ton of permanent resistance.
For example, 3 of those armor plates would give 30% damage reduction and with max armor upgrades, a tank would still have 40% damage reduction when their capacitor overloads.

Shifting over 6-7% resistance of shield extenders and armor plates to the active and passive hardeners would solve that problem.

But on 2nd thinking, I also mentioned this in last post/edit. When a tanks capacitor fails, maybe to stop the op nightmare it could create, all equiped items should fail, including plates. leaving you with just base skill resistances. Creating risk.

I didn't think you meant also plates. It doesn't really make sense for armor plates and shield extenders to fail too. EVE ships don't lose armor/shields from their plates and extenders when their capacitor fails, why should that happen in Dust?


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Sgt Buttscratch G I A N T EoN. 359	Posted - 2013.07.08 19:07:00 - [1] - Quote So with my 3x I became a sketchy tanker, some moments were glorious, others eh... but here's what I found problem 1: Proto AV available: YES Proto HAV available: NO I think its out right stupid to have proto AV and not vehicles yet, this isn't something that shouldnt be removed, we just need proto tanks/Drop ships, **** LAV's. Problem 2: narrow minded and thoughtless design process. Vehicles: Armor on vehicles should offer more than just HP, its that simple. right now the difference between using 60mm plates and 180mm plates is HP at the cost of movement speed and equipping costs. It should have been(level STD/ADV) 60mm plates: STD:680/-10ms/10% damage resistance ADV:782/-10ms/10% damage resistance 120mm plates: STD:1360/-18ms/20% damage resistance ADV:1564/-18ms/20% damage resistance 120mm plates: STD:2720/-25ms/30% damage resistance ADV:3128/-25ms/30% damage resistance Current armor is one dimensional garbage. Tanks weak spots should be underneath, and also the 2 small turrets(separate targeting, and damage resist). A fully stacked tank should be able to pull 100%+ damage resistance, for short bursts(armor+hardeners+DCU+ skill). If a tank is met by AV no boosts going, it should die, but fully protected should laugh at all non organized attacks. The down side would come from the adding capacitors: The tank runs all its goodies off a capacitor, with CPU/PG removed. Better capacitor, better fittings. Downside coming from capacitors lifespan, capacitors would have a set lifespan, before the tank needs to take off a regenerate which should take X mins. A capacitor could also over load from damage taken, so even tho the tank is beasting through damage, it's capacitor is loosing lifespan at X% per X amount of damage being resisted. AV: Damage from various items is messy my order of damage from least to most would be(at proto): Swarmer AV grenade Forge gun Prox mines Swarmers: Should be high effective versus standard LAV, moderate veruses LLAV's, lesser versus HAV's(good HAV's) AV grenade: should remain at current damage. Forge gun: remain at current damage, they also have the ability to catch vehicles off guard in a nasty way. Prox mines: Should do 3-5k damage each, also there should be variants, 15m radius/3k dmg, 3m radius/5-6k dmg, EMP, will shut a HAV or LAV module/capacitor system down. TL;DR, TANK's should be tanks, and tank. but with well a focused and tactical approach, they should go down. Disclaimer: Idea's could be very flawed, I am new to tanking, and this is what I saw/experienced, mixed with a few chats with eve players.
Sgt Buttscratch Algintal Core Gallente Federation 360	Posted - 2013.07.09 05:30:00 - [2] - Quote AV grenades should do damage. but as stated in my op, tanks armor should be adjusted, to gain more resistance to damage, so harderners dont put you up to 50-60%, they take you to you closer to 100%, meaning you can tank almost all AV when fully beafed up. Get caught out and boom
Sgt Buttscratch Algintal Core Gallente Federation 360	Posted - 2013.07.09 05:54:00 - [3] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Also the resistances for the plates is a little too much. With those bonuses, an armor tank would not need to use active defense. Eh, the idea is, all your equipment goes on a capacitor that can be over loaded leaving you with just that resistance, hardeners, reps, DCU would all fail when capacitor does. Which is overloaded when tank either spends too long in action, (guns heat should also slowly overload capacitors), or when you recieve too much damage. The concept would need some niggling, maybe removing the other resistance plates, to stop OTT resistances when without power. In doing this we avoid nerfing anything, but try to bring tanks into the name they hold, and make AV, a tactical, and co-ordinated attack. I also gave up my turret gunners to be killed. (also prox mine would over ride all of this, hitting tanks directly from bottom, for max damage.) Shields would work the same ish. I would need a shield tanker to adapt the idea, I only run armor tanks. I do know that shield tanks need a lil love tho. I never have an issue with the majority of the ones I face(yes i'm sure there a good few who'd **** me up).
Sgt Buttscratch Algintal Core Gallente Federation 360	Posted - 2013.07.09 06:30:00 - [4] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: I re-read the parts about the capacitor and better understand what you're proposing. Since shield extender modules and armor plates would bring extra resistance with it, they would need to have low resistance with a stacking penalty so that people cant just only stack tons of 60mm plates or shield extenders for a ton of permanent resistance. For example, 3 of those armor plates would give 30% damage reduction and with max armor upgrades, a tank would still have 40% damage reduction when their capacitor overloads. Shifting over 6-7% resistance of shield extenders and armor plates to the active and passive hardeners would solve that problem. But on 2nd thinking, I also mentioned this in last post/edit. When a tanks capacitor fails, maybe to stop the op nightmare it could create, all equiped items should fail, including plates. leaving you with just base skill resistances. Creating risk.
Sgt Buttscratch Algintal Core Gallente Federation 360	Posted - 2013.07.09 06:43:00 - [5] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: The-Errorist wrote: I re-read the parts about the capacitor and better understand what you're proposing. Since shield extender modules and armor plates would bring extra resistance with it, they would need to have low resistance with a stacking penalty so that people cant just only stack tons of 60mm plates or shield extenders for a ton of permanent resistance. For example, 3 of those armor plates would give 30% damage reduction and with max armor upgrades, a tank would still have 40% damage reduction when their capacitor overloads. Shifting over 6-7% resistance of shield extenders and armor plates to the active and passive hardeners would solve that problem. But on 2nd thinking, I also mentioned this in last post/edit. When a tanks capacitor fails, maybe to stop the op nightmare it could create, all equiped items should fail, including plates. leaving you with just base skill resistances. Creating risk. I didn't think you meant also plates. It doesn't really make sense for armor plates and shield extenders to fail too. EVE ships don't lose armor/shields from their plates and extenders when their capacitor fails, why should that happen in Dust? "Disclaimer: Idea's could be very flawed" fair enough. it is a work in progress though, just deleted them cells. I have a general Idea, my knowledge of eve is minimal, my friend was mentioning how capacitors would be better than PG/CPU reqs on tanks. I liked how it sounded, and I'm kinda interested on how to get that into dust instead of the lack luster sub par tanks available.
Sgt Buttscratch Algintal Core Gallente Federation 360	Posted - 2013.07.09 06:48:00 - [6] - Quote I don't want anything removed, AV shouldn't be punished because we are(2 wrongs dont make a right!!). The idea is to change the way tanks work, and also the manner in which AV is spammed(mostly by a single player). and try make tanks a force to be reconed with, and those who skill AV, to become tactical assaults against.
Sgt Buttscratch Algintal Core Gallente Federation 364	Posted - 2013.07.09 16:07:00 - [7] - Quote Chances Ghost wrote: my favorite part of the thread is that the guy thinks that its possable to code for 100% damage resistance. no, just no, the math doesnt work like that and to do so you would have to recode the entire damage system for every weapon in the game. not only that but it will be abused The damage would be taken, just transfered to the capacitors hp/heat bar. It isn't far fetched or impossible, would just need some reworks. @Void. I'm not in anyway trying to say we don't need the proto tanks. Its about making tanks, tank..
Sgt Buttscratch Algintal Core Gallente Federation 364	Posted - 2013.07.09 16:08:00 - [8] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: The real interesting part of the OP was the bit about capacitors. If those are added, there's no reason I shouldnt be able to have 90% damage resistance for a few seconds if i want my capacitor to allow me that, in exchange for losing the ability to fire my laser turret. the vehicle nerfs right now, i hope, are just placeholders for other things. Maybe there will be energy vampires, webifiers, electronic warefare to counter real proto tanks when we can be battleships and absolutely wreck everything in our path short of another well fitted tank. Let's be real here, a proto tank, to survive vs 3 proto ushukone forges, would need around 15,000 HP with duel reppers, and multiple hardeners. The loss of turret is a weird deal, could also be better, maybe sit at 70% ish resistance, choose to shut weapons down and gain the 20% for a short while.
Sgt Buttscratch Algintal Core Gallente Federation 370	Posted - 2013.07.09 19:54:00 - [9] - Quote Harpyja wrote: This is what I just read: "My armor HAV isn't winning enough. Please make it a NUKE-ALL-BUT-ME button" You haven't even tried a shield HAV. Those things are utter garbage as of right now when compared to armor HAVs. This isn't about me "winning enough", I play tanks for a lil added fun, as a fully SP sunk sniper, a blaster tank is actually the almost opposite, and is very fun when running with 2 other squad members on turrets using comms. I just don't like the way armor works in this game, a thinker plate offering nothing but hp is kinda narrow minded. I have tried shield tanks, but not to the extent that I have armor.(aur shield tank, SP/ISK armor), I have also battled a few, for the most they seem to have been gimped in a nasty way. Though I'm sure theres shield tanks out there that wouldn't even blink while steamrolling me, It's almost apparent by what I see on the fields, armor tanks have it better and are prefered. The reason I didn't try explain or devise a shield version in the OP, is due to my lack of knowledge of how shield tanks work, I also stated somewhere that if a shield tanker wanting to create a translated shield version, go for it. @Pegasis; I wont get scared off, nor do I get insulted. I like discussion, I don't think my idea is a bad one, but obviously, there are some key elements on how thing operate, or maybe just realism that I don't have the best knowledge on. As it stands right now I understand tanks can be beasts with the right operator, but AV works great for just about anyone who's willing to drop a few 100k sp into it.