DUST Search - Actual Data for OP weapon use and OPness

Deluxe Edition wrote:

Oswald Rehnquist wrote:

DRDEEZENUTSZ TWOpointo wrote:

The assault rifle is over powered when they fight weapons that are out of there niche.

I will concur with that but, then the next logical thing we have to look at is if the niches too small.

Currently Distance or redline sniping is able to adequately perform in their niche without too much interference, Vehicles are able to perform there niche with some interference from AV nates, and so can installations.

Meaning only the sniper rifle is the only traditional weapon that can even hold/maintain there niche role for real war points, other niche roles are vastly impotent. Also the forge gunning numbers I got was due to utilizing it as a sniper.

So this game breaks down into just a 5 play styles that can produce/generate stable SP

Assault Rifles
Vehicle/installation usage (not dropships)
Anti Vehicle (collection of AV, Forge, Swarm, since Vehicle kills gives you big points)
Sniping
Medic

Everything else is very hard to keep their niche without falling into the AR world.

The other niche is the grenade launcher which was formerly filled by the mass driver, however the flaylock pistol is more accurate and does more damage while costing half the CPU and a grand total of 1-2 PG. The Flaylock pistol is completely superior to it's mass driver brother. I would also like to point out that the Flaylock Pistol currently dominates the AR until you hit the range where the flaylocks missle blows up in the air which is around 60m.


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Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 50	Posted - 2013.07.08 02:36:00 - [1] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Vin Vicious wrote: Jeb Kermman wrote: Vin Vicious wrote: Just because a gun isn't used by everyone doesn't mean it's not OP, I just debunked your whole thread that you prob took 1-2hours to make, which means I'm OP /thread Actually it does, please see this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=995224#post995224 Aside from that, it is still clear, by the numbers that the Flaylock, or MD, or whatever - non AR - is certainly not OP. What does OP stand for? OverPowered It does not mean OverUsed please stop posting Overpowered, means that the weapon is a problem. See, every weapon is overpowered in it's niche, so the fact that someone kills you with it, or they do well with it, or even that you always die to it, doesn't make a weapon OP. What makes a weapon OP is that it's a problem, specifically a problem for diversity by encouraging people to use that weapon over other weapons because it's "EZ" mode. Therefore, OP does mean overused - precisely. Overused relative to the other weapons. I agree with use correlating to its relative power compared to other weapons, hence why I collected the data, and saw yours and wanted to have them compred, for some reason I posted it under my alt instead of this one.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 50	Posted - 2013.07.08 03:07:00 - [2] - Quote DRDEEZENUTSZ TWOpointo wrote: The assault rifle is over powered when they fight weapons that are out of there niche. I will concur with that but, then the next logical thing we have to look at is if the niches too small. Currently Distance or redline sniping is able to adequately perform in their niche without too much interference, Vehicles are able to perform there niche with some interference from AV nates, and so can installations. Meaning only the sniper rifle is the only traditional weapon that can even hold/maintain there niche role for real war points, other niche roles are vastly impotent. Also the forge gunning numbers I got was due to utilizing it as a sniper. So this game breaks down into just a 5 play styles that can produce/generate stable SP Assault Rifles Vehicle/installation usage (not dropships) Anti Vehicle (collection of AV, Forge, Swarm, since Vehicle kills gives you big points) Sniping Medic Everything else is very hard to keep their niche without falling into the AR world.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 53	Posted - 2013.07.08 03:51:00 - [3] - Quote Deluxe Edition wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: DRDEEZENUTSZ TWOpointo wrote: The assault rifle is over powered when they fight weapons that are out of there niche. I will concur with that but, then the next logical thing we have to look at is if the niches too small. Currently Distance or redline sniping is able to adequately perform in their niche without too much interference, Vehicles are able to perform there niche with some interference from AV nates, and so can installations. Meaning only the sniper rifle is the only traditional weapon that can even hold/maintain there niche role for real war points, other niche roles are vastly impotent. Also the forge gunning numbers I got was due to utilizing it as a sniper. So this game breaks down into just a 5 play styles that can produce/generate stable SP Assault Rifles Vehicle/installation usage (not dropships) Anti Vehicle (collection of AV, Forge, Swarm, since Vehicle kills gives you big points) Sniping Medic Everything else is very hard to keep their niche without falling into the AR world. The other niche is the grenade launcher which was formerly filled by the mass driver, however the flaylock pistol is more accurate and does more damage while costing half the CPU and a grand total of 1-2 PG. The Flaylock pistol is completely superior to it's mass driver brother. I would also like to point out that the Flaylock Pistol currently dominates the AR until you hit the range where the flaylocks missle blows up in the air which is around 60m. I don't use ARs or Flaylocks so I have no qualms about these getting the hammer, I believe I actually talked about nerfing the flaylock myself with buster at one point, which made me interested in the numbers to see what I got. But the AR nepotism is also prevalent and a much older issue. Differentiating the flaylock with the mass driver is not that hard to do considering we can play with direct damage, radius, and splash, but your right the MD does need to be superior for the cost difference since they do have similar outputs, couple with the fact that AR users can use them as well. AR nepotism is old though and the main issue is that we need resources for other styles to either get out of the AR world and back into their niche zone when things do go bad, currently that is difficult and that is why the other weapons are ghost towns.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 58	Posted - 2013.07.08 05:44:00 - [4] - Quote I don't see what is wrong talking about the data, which is a slight step better than our personal game play experiences, which is the norm for most other topics. CCP has a larger database and they will always use that over anything we are going to produce, this thread will not move CCP at all. We have had long discussions over personal experiences, I don't see what is wrong with what has been gathered for a discussion, if anything I think it would be prevalent to the "new player experience" if that is all we can speculate about it. I can do another count next weekend get +400, and add that to the list. We could also provide more insight to us of which CCP keeps to itself and even compare pubs before and after major changes. The data is fine and is a work in progress if anything. The intensity in this discussion here is the fear of or current fear of losing ones playstyle, which I have never been in the to go weapons or builds. Again I believe the flaylock needs looking into on the basis of being on equal resuts as the mass driver, but ARs need some mechanic implemented which takes some player skill to use as to separate the joes from the pros besides skill points
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 62	Posted - 2013.07.09 03:58:00 - [5] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Here you go Buster, I was able to get permission to post some metrics. Total kills from 4 games (took me two hours to put this all together, I have 8 games total so I'll try to add more in a few days). Heavy Machine Gun 175 Assault Rifle 157 Shotgun 98 Flaylock Pistol 98 Fused Locus Grenades 79 Tank Turrets/Installations 43 Core/M1 Locus 33 Remote Explosives 33 Precision Strike 33 Sniper Rifle 30 Mass Driver 18 Melee 17 Forge Gun 15 Submachine Gun 15 Scrambler Rifle 15 'Cavity' M2 Contact 14 Nova Knives 6 Dropship 5 LAV 2 AV Grenade 1 Flux Grenade 1 All you can glean from this is that PC is a completely different style of play, and balance changes need to be made with PC in mind as well. Btw, these games were all before the triple SP week, FP numbers are up considerably since then with the influx of SP. Wow, the sheer difference is honestly incredible, it literally is a different world altogether.