DUST Search - Making Prototype weapons worth the price without increasing performance

Malkai Inos wrote:

SponkSponkSponk wrote:

I think most weapon costs are in a good place. Each tier gets 5% more damage and ~5% more range for higher cost and fitting. It's not always a good idea to drop with prototype weapons unless it's an important match, and I'm okay with that.

Frankly, more modules and equipment should be like this.

This. While i like the idea in principle i completely disagree with its goal, namely "making proto worth the price".

PRO gear should not be endgame high level content that you skill into and use as your general purpose daily fit from that point on. It should be this slight edge that you pay anything for in battles where loosing is simply not an option.

The current prevalence of PRO suits and mods shows that, for too many players, it's already worth it and worse, perfectly sustainable in pub matches with a little MLT grinding in between. This should in no way be the case and is pretty much responsible for the worst of pubstompings (at least its a large part of it).

What we have is a "whenever i can use it" situation with regards to PRO.

What we ought to have is "whenever i have to use it".

Proto should not be worth the price for the vast majority of situations.

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Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1827	Posted - 2013.07.06 07:33:00 - [1] - Quote While looking at the market prices, couldnGÇÖt help but feel like there is zero point in going after prototype weapons for almost all weapons. (Some exceptions exist, but for the most part prototype only has a slight increase in performance compared to the cost) For example, the difference between a standard AR and a Prototype AR is 41 DPS. And what is the price difference? 30x the price. So I thought to myself: GÇ£How to make prototype weapons worth the price without increasing performance to ludicrous levels?GÇ¥ And then I had an idea. What if prototype weapons didnGÇÖt increase performance at all, but instead allowed you to tailor them to your needs? So here is the idea: All weapons except for Militia weapons get a certain amount of tweaking slots. Standard/Advanced/Prototype get 1/2/3. In each tweaking slot you can use a single modifier that will boost the weapon in one way but will reduce itGÇÖs performance in another way. You can only put in one of each type, so you canGÇÖt use the same type over and over again on the same weapon. Here are some modifiers I thought of: Type: DPS output: 1. Increase damage by 10%, reduce fire rate by 10% 2. Increase fire rate by 10%, reduce damage by 10% 3. Increase damage against shields by 10%, reduce damage against armor by 10% 4. Increase damage against armor by 10%, reduce damage against shields by 10% Type: Marksman: 1. Increase optimal, effective and absolute range by 10%, increase kick and dispersion by 25% 2. Reduce kick and dispersion by 25%, reduce optimal, effective and absolute range by 10% 3. Reduce hip fire accuracy by 15%, reduce ADS kick and dispersion by 15% 4. Increase ADS kick and dispersion by 15%, increase hip fire accuracy by 15% Type: Operation: 1. Increase magazine size by 20%, increase reload time by 30% 2. Reduce reload time by 30%, reduce magazine size by 20% Type: Specialization: 1. Increase headshot damage by 10%, reduce damage everywhere else by 10% 2. Increase damage against medium frame suits by 10%, reduce damage to all other suits by 20% 3.Increase damage against heavy frame suits by 10%, reduce damage to all other suits by 20% 4.Increase damage against light frame suits by 10%, reduce damage to all other suits by 20% Type: Optimization: 1. Reduce CPU consumption by 10%, increase PG concumption by 10% 2. Reduce PG consumption by 10%, increase CPU consumption by 10% 3. Reduce CPU consumption by 20%, reduce damage by 10% 4. Reduce PG consumption by 20%, reduce damage by 10% 5. Increase CPU consumption by 20%, increase damage by 5% 6. Increase PG consumption by 20%, increase damage by 5% These are just my ideas, feel free to add more :)
Gaelon Thrace DUST University Ivy League 21	Posted - 2013.07.06 07:38:00 - [2] - Quote We're suppose to eventually be able to fit our weapons just like we're able to fit our dropsuits and vehicles now. Sooner would be better than later. Customization options are the spice of repetitive shooters.
Gaelon Thrace DUST University Ivy League 21	Posted - 2013.07.06 07:38:00 - [3] - Quote Don't know why that double posted.
Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1827	Posted - 2013.07.06 07:41:00 - [4] - Quote Gaelon Thrace wrote: We're suppose to eventually be able to fit our weapons just like we're able to fit our dropsuits and vehicles now. Sooner would be better than later. Customization options are the spice of repetitive shooters. Nah, they were talking about stuff like sights, stocks, grips, etc'. I'm talking about changing how your weapon operates.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 198	Posted - 2013.07.06 07:48:00 - [5] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Gaelon Thrace wrote: We're suppose to eventually be able to fit our weapons just like we're able to fit our dropsuits and vehicles now. Sooner would be better than later. Customization options are the spice of repetitive shooters. Nah, they were talking about stuff like sights, stocks, grips, etc'. I'm talking about changing how your weapon operates. Shouldn't stocks and grips actually help improve attributes such as accuracy?
Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1827	Posted - 2013.07.06 07:51:00 - [6] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Gaelon Thrace wrote: We're suppose to eventually be able to fit our weapons just like we're able to fit our dropsuits and vehicles now. Sooner would be better than later. Customization options are the spice of repetitive shooters. Nah, they were talking about stuff like sights, stocks, grips, etc'. I'm talking about changing how your weapon operates. Shouldn't stocks and grips actually help improve attributes such as accuracy? Yes. However my idea could still go hand in hand with the customization idea. My idea is here to fix the problem of prototype weapons for the most part not being worth it and just being an ISK sink, but you can't just increase the power of them or it becomes ludicrous.
Gaelon Thrace DUST University Ivy League 21	Posted - 2013.07.06 08:02:00 - [7] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Gaelon Thrace wrote: We're suppose to eventually be able to fit our weapons just like we're able to fit our dropsuits and vehicles now. Sooner would be better than later. Customization options are the spice of repetitive shooters. Nah, they were talking about stuff like sights, stocks, grips, etc'. I'm talking about changing how your weapon operates. So... they were talking about weapon attachments to customize your weapon's performance, but you don't want attachments; you just want a list of options that arbitrarily alter your weapon's performance? Instead of having for example an extended magazine, you just want to select an option that increases your magazine size? Instead of attachments/modules and attachment/module slots you want "tweaking slots" and "modifiers"?
Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1828	Posted - 2013.07.06 08:05:00 - [8] - Quote Gaelon Thrace wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Gaelon Thrace wrote: We're suppose to eventually be able to fit our weapons just like we're able to fit our dropsuits and vehicles now. Sooner would be better than later. Customization options are the spice of repetitive shooters. Nah, they were talking about stuff like sights, stocks, grips, etc'. I'm talking about changing how your weapon operates. So... they were talking about weapon attachments to customize your weapon's performance, but you don't want attachments; you just want a list of options that arbitrarily alter your weapon's performance? Instead of having for example an extended magazine, you just want to select an option that increases your magazine size? Instead of attachments/modules and attachment/module slots you want "tweaking slots" and "modifiers"? The point isn't customization. Watch the thread title for the reason.
Gaelon Thrace DUST University Ivy League 21	Posted - 2013.07.06 08:09:00 - [9] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: The point isn't customization. Watch the thread title for the reason. Fittings would make them worth the price for the same reason proto suits are worth the price: more slots and higher cpu/pg output.
Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1828	Posted - 2013.07.06 08:11:00 - [10] - Quote Gaelon Thrace wrote: Cat Merc wrote: The point isn't customization. Watch the thread title for the reason. Fittings would make them worth the price for the same reason proto suits are worth the price: more slots and higher cpu/pg output. Well, you're right. But hey, my idea could still be partially used for the weapon customization.

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 49	Posted - 2013.07.06 11:11:00 - [11] - Quote I think most weapon costs are in a good place. Each tier gets 5% more damage and ~5% more range for higher cost and fitting. It's not always a good idea to drop with prototype weapons unless it's an important match, and I'm okay with that. Frankly, more modules and equipment should be like this.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 4710	Posted - 2013.07.06 11:23:00 - [12] - Quote And you get a like pew pew, pew pew pew
darkiller240 INGLORIOUS-INQUISITION 31	Posted - 2013.07.06 11:28:00 - [13] - Quote Thats For T3s
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 526	Posted - 2013.07.06 12:01:00 - [14] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: I think most weapon costs are in a good place. Each tier gets 5% more damage and ~5% more range for higher cost and fitting. It's not always a good idea to drop with prototype weapons unless it's an important match, and I'm okay with that. Frankly, more modules and equipment should be like this. This. While i like the idea in principle i completely disagree with its goal, namely "making proto worth the price". PRO gear should not be endgame high level content that you skill into and use as your general purpose daily fit from that point on. It should be this slight edge that you pay anything for in battles where loosing is simply not an option. The current prevalence of PRO suits and mods shows that, for too many players, it's already worth it and worse, perfectly sustainable in pub matches with a little MLT grinding in between. This should in no way be the case and is pretty much responsible for the worst of pubstompings (at least its a large part of it). What we have is a "whenever i can use it" situation with regards to PRO. What we ought to have is "whenever i have to use it". Proto should not be worth the price for the vast majority of situations.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 430	Posted - 2013.07.06 13:30:00 - [15] - Quote The DPS build actually reduces damage when compared to a non DPS weapon, it actually lowers damage output by 1.1%.
N1ck Comeau Pro Hic Immortalis 602	Posted - 2013.07.06 13:52:00 - [16] - Quote Seems a bit to complicated. I like what we have now, use skill points to upgrade into better gear better gear costs more but helps you out more in battles. Fact of the matter is, i go more positive in both K/D and in ISK when i play in proto gear
Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1832	Posted - 2013.07.06 15:25:00 - [17] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: I think most weapon costs are in a good place. Each tier gets 5% more damage and ~5% more range for higher cost and fitting. It's not always a good idea to drop with prototype weapons unless it's an important match, and I'm okay with that. Frankly, more modules and equipment should be like this. This. While i like the idea in principle i completely disagree with its goal, namely "making proto worth the price". PRO gear should not be endgame high level content that you skill into and use as your general purpose daily fit from that point on. It should be this slight edge that you pay anything for in battles where loosing is simply not an option. The current prevalence of PRO suits and mods shows that, for too many players, it's already worth it and worse, perfectly sustainable in pub matches with a little MLT grinding in between. This should in no way be the case and is pretty much responsible for the worst of pubstompings (at least its a large part of it). What we have is a "whenever i can use it" situation with regards to PRO. What we ought to have is "whenever i have to use it". Proto should not be worth the price for the vast majority of situations. That's because in the respec there was a huge influx of ISK devaluing it a lot. I have so much money I could run proto proto gear for months before I run out.
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 42	Posted - 2013.07.06 15:53:00 - [18] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: ...PRO gear should not be endgame high level content that you skill into and use as your general purpose daily fit from that point on. It should be this slight edge that you pay anything for in battles where loosing is simply not an option... THIS. I love the idea of customizing weapons one day, but all weapons should be customizable (and let's be honest, there is a lot of other things CCP needs to prioritize first). That little bit of extra dps difference is what guarantees you win 100% of the time with 2 otherwise identical fits and players of exactly equal skill. That's a BIG advantage.
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 148	Posted - 2013.07.06 16:00:00 - [19] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Gaelon Thrace wrote: We're suppose to eventually be able to fit our weapons just like we're able to fit our dropsuits and vehicles now. Sooner would be better than later. Customization options are the spice of repetitive shooters. Nah, they were talking about stuff like sights, stocks, grips, etc'. I'm talking about changing how your weapon operates. While it would make the variants pointless, this is a wayBetter replacement for them.


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