DUST Search - [Suggestion] Making Armor Plates Work Like EVE

BL4CKST4R wrote:

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

One thing about armor plating has been bugging me since I first started playing this game last April:

Why do the plates reduce your movement speed?

I mean, as an example, I can fit 3 sets of 1600mm armor plating to an Amarr Battleship in EVE, and it won't make me go any slower than I would without them.

What does change is my acceleration, such that it takes me a lot longer to reach that same top speed.

So why don't Armor Plates work the same way in Dust? Instead of having speed penalties leveled against the suit, why not reduce the percentages, and then apply them against the acceleration values that have been in place since the "strafe nerf" last year?

If you combine that with my earlier thread proposing that Shield Extenders increase your Scan Profile and make you easier to detect, you end up with the plating giving you a slight reduction to how quickly you can reach your top speed in any direction, in exchange for giving no penalty to how easy you are to see on radar or pick up with an Active Scanner.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92121&find=unread
My earlier thread.

Because it is a lot harder for devs to code this mechanic.


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Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2164	Posted - 2013.07.05 20:20:00 - [1] - Quote One thing about armor plating has been bugging me since I first started playing this game last April: Why do the plates reduce your movement speed? I mean, as an example, I can fit 3 sets of 1600mm armor plating to an Amarr Battleship in EVE, and it won't make me go any slower than I would without them. What does change is my acceleration, such that it takes me a lot longer to reach that same top speed. So why don't Armor Plates work the same way in Dust? Instead of having speed penalties leveled against the suit, why not reduce the percentages, and then apply them against the acceleration values that have been in place since the "strafe nerf" last year? If you combine that with my earlier thread proposing that Shield Extenders increase your Scan Profile and make you easier to detect, you end up with the plating giving you a slight reduction to how quickly you can reach your top speed in any direction, in exchange for giving no penalty to how easy you are to see on radar or pick up with an Active Scanner. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92121&find=unread My earlier thread.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2165	Posted - 2013.07.06 00:23:00 - [2] - Quote Delenne Arran wrote: Crossposting this from the thread in Tech Support/Bug Reports: I believe the reason it only slows the acceleration of your ships, but not the top speed is because on a ship, it only adds mass, not weight. Conveniently, the foumula for acceleration is "force/mass=acceleration". A merc, however, is affected by both the additional mass, and the weight that comes with it, since he's affected by the planet's gravity. Imagine trying to run your top speed with a 50lb weight vest on. Although, that gives me an idea. Perhaps there could be a variety of plates could increase the rate your stamina drops while sprinting, rather than a flat speed decrease. I realize this, but you also have to consider that gameplay > reality. Both armor and shield mods have to have downsides to balance the two, but the penalties for armor can be made more reasonable, and we can add a reasonable penalty for shield mods to finally bring the two into balance. Hard to believe how only a few months ago we had threads about how Armor trumped shield every time and Amarr suits being able to stack as many armor plates as they could was OP. Basically, it's clear that CCP wants there to be a penalty to armor, but enforcing an overall speed reduction in an FPS of this type basically makes such equipment suicidal. What I'm proposing is a penalty that let's armor modules keep their HP advantage, while making the player decide if they want to tank the damage, or dodge it, thus making shield and armor a choice rather than only one option being picked.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2176	Posted - 2013.07.06 01:46:00 - [3] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: One thing about armor plating has been bugging me since I first started playing this game last April: Why do the plates reduce your movement speed? I mean, as an example, I can fit 3 sets of 1600mm armor plating to an Amarr Battleship in EVE, and it won't make me go any slower than I would without them. What does change is my acceleration, such that it takes me a lot longer to reach that same top speed. So why don't Armor Plates work the same way in Dust? Instead of having speed penalties leveled against the suit, why not reduce the percentages, and then apply them against the acceleration values that have been in place since the "strafe nerf" last year? If you combine that with my earlier thread proposing that Shield Extenders increase your Scan Profile and make you easier to detect, you end up with the plating giving you a slight reduction to how quickly you can reach your top speed in any direction, in exchange for giving no penalty to how easy you are to see on radar or pick up with an Active Scanner. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92121&find=unread My earlier thread. Because it is a lot harder for devs to code this mechanic. How so, specifically? I realize changing something like that isn't a matter of just adjusting some numbers, but I don't think you'll argue when I say it would be worth it in the long run. Part of the reason you're seeing those threads claiming the Mass Driver is suddenly OP is because the speed penalties on armor plates leave you completely unable to dodge shots from them, and their bonus against armor damage means you'll just be shredded before you can even fire back.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2179	Posted - 2013.07.06 02:17:00 - [4] - Quote Provolonee wrote: Having them affect your turn speed is a bigger issue for me. It's like adjusting my controller sensitivity with every fit. The movement penalty can be reduced by stacking the ferro plates with the standard ones. I don't think turning needs to be impacted, just the rate at which you accelerate to full speed.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2181	Posted - 2013.07.06 02:37:00 - [5] - Quote Delenne Arran wrote: Suspect the Ferroscale plate thing is a glitch, anyway. As for a possible acceleration penalty-- In addition to what I said in my previous post, even if it were possible and easy to code in, I think an acceleration penalty of less than a 25-33% decrease per plate would be too small of one, anyway. If you're standing still in a firefight, you've likely got cover within one or two steps, so how fast you accelerate doesn't really matter, because you're not moving much. If you're running and gunning, you've already accelerated, so how long it takes to get there... doesn't really matter. Any acceleration penalty would have to be massive to actually be a penalty. You're not factoring in CQC, man. What happens when someone comes after you at close range with a shotgun or something? If they're in a shield-tanked Scout suit, they can move fast enough that there's no way you're going to get away, and they don't even have to work that hard at aiming to kill you.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2184	Posted - 2013.07.06 02:46:00 - [6] - Quote Azri Sarum wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: You're not factoring in CQC, man. What happens when someone comes after you at close range with a shotgun or something? If they're in a shield-tanked Scout suit, they can move fast enough that there's no way you're going to get away, and they don't even have to work that hard at aiming to kill you. Thats the crux of the problem right there. In a fps, SPEED IS KING. If the penalty on armor plates is switched to acceleration, thats just a different kind of speed penalty. All it does is make you slow in CQC but still able to reach full speed on longer runs. In the situation above, your dead with either penalty. As long as armor's penalty is to speed its going to be a nightmare to balance. It doesn't have to be a major penalty in order to provide balance while not shitting on armor tankers. Also, if you look at several threads on the topic of Explosive weapons, they seem to be hitting armor with a far higher modifier than they should. Closer to 35% bonus than 20%.