DUST Search - [Suggestion] Making Armor Plates Work Like EVE

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

Delenne Arran wrote:

Suspect the Ferroscale plate thing is a glitch, anyway.

As for a possible acceleration penalty-- In addition to what I said in my previous post, even if it were possible and easy to code in, I think an acceleration penalty of less than a 25-33% decrease per plate would be too small of one, anyway. If you're standing still in a firefight, you've likely got cover within one or two steps, so how fast you accelerate doesn't really matter, because you're not moving much. If you're running and gunning, you've already accelerated, so how long it takes to get there... doesn't really matter. Any acceleration penalty would have to be massive to actually be a penalty.

You're not factoring in CQC, man.

What happens when someone comes after you at close range with a shotgun or something? If they're in a shield-tanked Scout suit, they can move fast enough that there's no way you're going to get away, and they don't even have to work that hard at aiming to kill you.


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Delenne Arran Ivory Hounds 27	Posted - 2013.07.05 21:56:00 - [1] - Quote Crossposting this from the thread in Tech Support/Bug Reports: I believe the reason it only slows the acceleration of your ships, but not the top speed is because on a ship, it only adds mass, not weight. Conveniently, the foumula for acceleration is "force/mass=acceleration". A merc, however, is affected by both the additional mass, and the weight that comes with it, since he's affected by the planet's gravity. Imagine trying to run your top speed with a 50lb weight vest on. Although, that gives me an idea. Perhaps there could be a variety of plates could increase the rate your stamina drops while sprinting, rather than a flat speed decrease.
Delenne Arran Ivory Hounds 27	Posted - 2013.07.06 01:22:00 - [2] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: I realize this, but you also have to consider that gameplay > reality. Both armor and shield mods have to have downsides to balance the two, but the penalties for armor can be made more reasonable, and we can add a reasonable penalty for shield mods to finally bring the two into balance. Hard to believe how only a few months ago we had threads about how Armor trumped shield every time and Amarr suits being able to stack as many armor plates as they could was OP. Basically, it's clear that CCP wants there to be a penalty to armor, but enforcing an overall speed reduction in an FPS of this type basically makes such equipment suicidal. What I'm proposing is a penalty that let's armor modules keep their HP advantage, while making the player decide if they want to tank the damage, or dodge it, thus making shield and armor a choice rather than only one option being picked. I was giving an explanation as to why things work differently in EVE. It may not be the explicitly stated reason, but it answers why it works that way in the respective games. If you'd prefer another reason, acceleration shouldn't/can't be a factor because acceleration is either negligible or nonexistent when it comes to dropsuits. They would have to completely change how movement worked, give every current and future suit a base acceleration rate for both walking and sprinting, adjust for how hard you were pushing the analog stick, figure something to for kb/m users... It'd be far more trouble than it's worth, when they can instead just create new armor plate types that don't have the move speed penalty, or have a reduced one, or future plates that decrease the user's stamina instead, and so on and so forth. I'm not saying the current plates are as strong as they should be-- I'd like to see armor buffed and shields nerfed a bit-- but the move penalty, by itself, isn't the whole of the problem. Part of the issue is that you can mitigate the high CPU/PG cost of shields without sacrificing the number you can put on, but the only modules that would help mitigate the speed penalty of armor take up the same power slots. Another problem is that high CPU/PG cost isn't really THAT big of an issue, compared to a flat 10%/module speed decrease. On the other hand, armor and shields need to feel different beyond being more resistant to certain weapons, so any changes should to take that into account.
Delenne Arran Ivory Hounds 27	Posted - 2013.07.06 02:03:00 - [3] - Quote I suspect a larger part of why people are claiming the Mass Driver is suddenly OP is that they just aren't used to seeing them, so aren't used to having to deal with them. Personally, I've had more trouble with hitting the person using them through all the smoke they kick up and my screen shaking than with the damage they do. Flaylocks, however, are another story, and neither are really here nor there.
Delenne Arran Ivory Hounds 27	Posted - 2013.07.06 02:30:00 - [4] - Quote Suspect the Ferroscale plate thing is a glitch, anyway. As for a possible acceleration penalty-- In addition to what I said in my previous post, even if it were possible and easy to code in, I think an acceleration penalty of less than a 25-33% decrease per plate would be too small of one, anyway. If you're standing still in a firefight, you've likely got cover within one or two steps, so how fast you accelerate doesn't really matter, because you're not moving much. If you're running and gunning, you've already accelerated, so how long it takes to get there... doesn't really matter. Any acceleration penalty would have to be massive to actually be a penalty.
Delenne Arran Ivory Hounds 27	Posted - 2013.07.06 02:55:00 - [5] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Delenne Arran wrote: Suspect the Ferroscale plate thing is a glitch, anyway. As for a possible acceleration penalty-- In addition to what I said in my previous post, even if it were possible and easy to code in, I think an acceleration penalty of less than a 25-33% decrease per plate would be too small of one, anyway. If you're standing still in a firefight, you've likely got cover within one or two steps, so how fast you accelerate doesn't really matter, because you're not moving much. If you're running and gunning, you've already accelerated, so how long it takes to get there... doesn't really matter. Any acceleration penalty would have to be massive to actually be a penalty. You're not factoring in CQC, man. What happens when someone comes after you at close range with a shotgun or something? If they're in a shield-tanked Scout suit, they can move fast enough that there's no way you're going to get away, and they don't even have to work that hard at aiming to kill you. If a shotgun scout gets to close range, it's unlikely I'd be able to get away in general since their suits are faster even before any armor penalties and they're likely to be using Kinetic Catalyzers and Cardiac Regulators. The counter to a shield tanked shotgun scout isn't to be faster and escape, it's to shoot them once in the chest with a charged scrambler rifle shot before they get to you. In addition, as the other guy said, if the penalty is to acceleration, you'll still be killed before you can run away-- in fact, you'll be killed faster, since you can't just instantly start running at 6m/s in the other direction.