DUST Search - AFKing is to Dust what bookmarks were to EVE

Aran Abbas wrote:

A long time ago in an Internet Spaceship game you're all familiar with, pilots were unable to directly warp onto gates. Instead they could only warp 15km distance from them. The reasoning behind this decision was that CCP wanted to make travel hazardous, provide opportunity for those that wished to fight and kill, make the galaxy seem larger, and gates were that natural chokepoint that would allow this.

People, however, have an inherent tendency for risk aversion and to seek any and all advantages to survival and time, and so some enterprising pilot soon came up with the idea of bookmarks that would allow him to warp directly onto gates. The mechanics of how bookmarks worked are not as important as the effect on the game. Bookmarks sucked up server/database resources, and as more and more pilots learnt of the advantages of bookmarks the number of them in game grew exponentially until the load on the server became catastrophic.

The devs of course tried various workarounds to prevent the use of these bookmarks, but without success. Just as soon as a stopgap solution had been implemented the players found a way around it, until eventually CCP learnt an important lesson about player behaviour and allowed warping directly onto gates and removed the bookmarks. Overnight the lag reduced and EVE is a much better, faster game for it.

Dust has a similar problem in AFKing.

AFKing exists because mercs are able to draw an advantage from it, increase their rewards while minimizing their risks, making use of their limited time for competing tasks. Currently, the problem with AFKing is mostly limited to the irritation it causes the other players on the AFKers team. However, any merc in game is using server resources, and as the total number of Dust mercs (hopefully) grows, the amount of load that these inactives put on the server will also grow.

CCP will of course attempt to fix the problem in various ways, as they tried with bookmarks in EVE. First they will remove skillpoint gain for mercs in the MCC. So players will simply AFK on the ground beneath the MCC. Then to counter that CCP will remove skillpoint gain for those in the redline. So players will simply AFK one step outside the redline, behind a rock. After that, there's nowhere else to go really, other than to remove skillpoint gain for time spent in game. This, of course, would increase the perception of Dust's grind. So you might increase warpoints to counter that, but this would increase the skillpoint gap between active good and organised players and casuals.

My point is, as with bookmarks in EVE there is no way to keep time linked skillpoint gain in Dust without players finding a simple workaround, whilst removing it altogether and increasing the rewards for activity just increases the gap between the better and older mercs versus newbies. Newbies, of course, are the lifeblood of any game and if they stop coming the game dies a slow but certain death. So, rather than jump through the million hoops that CCP did with bookmarks in EVE before capitulating to the logical thing, CCP ought to do it with Dust early on in its history. And just what is that logical thing?

Remove in-game time based skillpoint gain and add that 'lost' weekly 190k to passive skillpoint gain. No more AFKers. Reduced load on server. Reduced teammate irritation. No greater increase in the gap between better and older mercs versus newbies than exists currently. Players log on because they WANT to, not because they feel they HAVE to in order to stay competitive, which reduces the perception of grind and thereby burnout


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Vrain Matari ZionTCD 582	Posted - 2013.07.05 13:24:00 - [1] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Iv been calling for passive only gain since day 1 they will never do it though I'm ok with the passive sp trickle we all get, it does a lot to keep the game viable in the long-term for casuals. But the passive 1 skillpoint per second gain we get while in matches is highly destructive to the game. Now that CCP have delivered somewhat improved gameplay with 1.2, the passive in-match skillpoints are prolly the biggest negative factor in the game, and in player's peception of the game. It's really a golden opportunity for CCP, because if passive in-match sp are replaced with the right kind of active reward system it will go a long way to also addressing chronic pubstomping by veterans negatively affecting the new player experience.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD 584	Posted - 2013.07.06 21:52:00 - [2] - Quote Aran Abbas wrote: A long time ago in an Internet Spaceship game you're all familiar with, pilots were unable to directly warp onto gates. Instead they could only warp 15km distance from them. The reasoning behind this decision was that CCP wanted to make travel hazardous, provide opportunity for those that wished to fight and kill, make the galaxy seem larger, and gates were that natural chokepoint that would allow this. People, however, have an inherent tendency for risk aversion and to seek any and all advantages to survival and time, and so some enterprising pilot soon came up with the idea of bookmarks that would allow him to warp directly onto gates. The mechanics of how bookmarks worked are not as important as the effect on the game. Bookmarks sucked up server/database resources, and as more and more pilots learnt of the advantages of bookmarks the number of them in game grew exponentially until the load on the server became catastrophic. The devs of course tried various workarounds to prevent the use of these bookmarks, but without success. Just as soon as a stopgap solution had been implemented the players found a way around it, until eventually CCP learnt an important lesson about player behaviour and allowed warping directly onto gates and removed the bookmarks. Overnight the lag reduced and EVE is a much better, faster game for it. Dust has a similar problem in AFKing. AFKing exists because mercs are able to draw an advantage from it, increase their rewards while minimizing their risks, making use of their limited time for competing tasks. Currently, the problem with AFKing is mostly limited to the irritation it causes the other players on the AFKers team. However, any merc in game is using server resources, and as the total number of Dust mercs (hopefully) grows, the amount of load that these inactives put on the server will also grow. CCP will of course attempt to fix the problem in various ways, as they tried with bookmarks in EVE. First they will remove skillpoint gain for mercs in the MCC. So players will simply AFK on the ground beneath the MCC. Then to counter that CCP will remove skillpoint gain for those in the redline. So players will simply AFK one step outside the redline, behind a rock. After that, there's nowhere else to go really, other than to remove skillpoint gain for time spent in game. This, of course, would increase the perception of Dust's grind. So you might increase warpoints to counter that, but this would increase the skillpoint gap between active good and organised players and casuals. My point is, as with bookmarks in EVE there is no way to keep time linked skillpoint gain in Dust without players finding a simple workaround, whilst removing it altogether and increasing the rewards for activity just increases the gap between the better and older mercs versus newbies. Newbies, of course, are the lifeblood of any game and if they stop coming the game dies a slow but certain death. So, rather than jump through the million hoops that CCP did with bookmarks in EVE before capitulating to the logical thing, CCP ought to do it with Dust early on in its history. And just what is that logical thing? Remove in-game time based skillpoint gain and add that 'lost' weekly 190k to passive skillpoint gain. No more AFKers. Reduced load on server. Reduced teammate irritation. No greater increase in the gap between better and older mercs versus newbies than exists currently. Players log on because they WANT to, not because they feel they HAVE to in order to stay competitive, which reduces the perception of grind and thereby burnout This topic is so important to DUST right now it's crazy. I support this analysis and and the proposed solution. No real progress will be made on the enjoyability of the game until this crippling mechanic is staked out for the wolves to eat and the crows to pick over. However, there is considerably more at stake than mere enjoyment - this destructive mechanic whispers to new immigrants that New Eden is not to be taken seriously, that laughable and exploitable mechanics are there to be abused, and that there are no repercussions for this. It says the ancient and mighty alliances, the vast wealth, the howling moan that is the craving of industry for raw inputs, the history-making astropolitical resource wars, the machinations, the positioning, the propaganda, the metagame and all else that forms the soul of New Eden is, collectively, so much less than one pathetic, ignorant, contemptible but fundamental rule that speaks directly to what it really means to be a mercenary in New Eden. Right now, the answer to the question of what it means to be an immortal warrior in New Eden is exactly jack-****, and it will stay that way until CCP stops poisoning their own universe with this wantonly destructive and misguided rule. What's the easiest way to destroy an immortal fighting force? Sun Tsu would say: 'Put them on welfare. In a mere few seasons they will have become nothing more than fat lazy whores chasing skillpoints." Make it right CCP.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD 584	Posted - 2013.07.06 23:27:00 - [3] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: If they removed passive in match sp gain, and introduced sp rollover system, theat would go a long way in this game. You would also try harder to gain wps, thus playing harder for more rewards... But if you don't do sp rollover at the same time, it'll make the grind even worse... As some will have no chance of capping each week. Sp rollover + 5 SP/WP + 0 SP/s = awesome sauce. +1. Agreed 100%. Rasatsu nailed the correct way to implement the sp rollover system a long time ago. It's worth looking up.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD 584	Posted - 2013.07.07 00:24:00 - [4] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: Zero Notion wrote: Why not simply create some line of code that analyzes whether your character is actively moving in the game or performed X amount of actions within a match? If you don't, you're kicked. You could even introduce a system that allows players to kick others for AFK - like WoW was forced to do with BGs. If the player didn't respond to a warning, they were kicked out. Allowing players to police themselves is a fairly worthwhile tactic and removing active SP will hinder a lot of the reward that is gained which allows the game to be playable. I enjoy grinding for SPs myself and I usually dislike FPS games. This keeps me entertained, much like an MMO does. i can work around that active motion thing by rubber banding my stick and facing a wall.. trust me even when afkers were able to be killed by a blue grenade we still found ways to afk where they couldn't get us, or more simply we tanked our suits where the madblue only killed himself until CCP decides to fix the incentive to AFK it will continue to find a way +1. Treat the disease, not the symptom.