Ok so this is sort of a response to this thread here

The problem here is that people look at armor tanking the wrong way..... and so im going to try and explain how this all works. To start.... will begin with the introduction of the new armor plates. People like me who do armor tank were looking forward to these new additions because of what they could potentially provide. However, to many peoples disappointment they weren't as "good" as was previously hoped. People were expecting these plates to make armor tanking "really good, and viable" but in truth... armor tanking was already viable to begin with.

As for the new plates and their seemingly "gimped" stats. I look at them likes this...... The new armor plates are, in my opinion, plates that are geared to making shield tanking even stronger. The reactive plates are amazing for shield suits because you can fit one reactive plate on, get some bonus hp AND have armor regen. This would be especially useful for the minmatar assault because of its base 1 armor hp/s repair it has on default. Basically the reactive plates are like having Two semi-gimped modules that fit into 1 module slot, and when you consider that most shield tanking suits only have 2-3 low slots, these plates are actually pretty useful in conserving space.

The ferroscale plates are sort of half and half in my eyes...... Its basically a slightly gimped version of the shield extenders. No movement penalties for the cost of reduced total hp overall. Which is fine in my opinion. If I wanted to I could peel off about 100 hp and run just about as fast as a caldari suit, but I simply wont because I like having more upfront HP. As for this plates role in shield tanking...... imagine what the caldari logi will be like now! Most of them already used a method called "brick tanking" (maximum shields and armor) but now that they can shed off the old plates with nice mobile ones there going to be, in my eyes, even more potent.

In conclusion about the new plates..... I consider them supplementary sets for shield tanking (giving the shield tanker just a bit more hp) REAL armor tankers will most likely stick with the already established plates and ill get into that now.


Armor tanking is totally viable in the current game build. My main battle suit nets 450 HP with 18 armor repair per second. In addition to this, I use damage mods, and triage nanohives. The damage mods give me an absurd advantage over any shield tanker, and my triage nanohive literally lets me win 3 v 1 fights. The only exception to these fights is if the other side is using either A.) grenade spam, or B.) flaylock spam. However im not complaining...... explosives are the hard counter to armor tanking after all. But yeah..... in summary I have a 450 armor suit that at max potential is repping almost 90 armor per second, doing far more damage then most other suits, and having about as much hp as any well tanked ADV suit (and most proto suits). The only suits I ever lose to these days are heavy suits, and proto caldari logi suits. I lose to heavies because I get cocky and try to take them on 1 v 1. Then they end up using a burst HMG, or a boundless HMG and I just lose cuz its too much DPS. The caldari logi is just...... its a beasty suit if its fitted properly. Very difficult to fight against if the player behind it is at-least semi-good.

But yeah..... that's armor tanking in a nutshell.

Nonono I have 450 armor, NOT EHP. I have about 550 EHP, but that's only the face value statistic. Sure your caldari logi suit might have 100+ HP on me, but you don't have a proto nanohive repping you at 70 HP per second....... 70 + 18 = 88 which is about 4.5 times more then your 20 shield regen per second, AND my reps happen regardless of wether or not im taking damage. That's what puts me on (almost) equal footing with that suit..... and obviously that suit can always hard counter me by chucking a nade into my hives. However I don't usually get into fights where I cant put the hive in a semi-safe spot anyway so it works out alright.

Useless.
4 seconds is not that big of a deal.
And they can reduce that further with shield regulators that go to LOW SLOTS.
You should also keep in mind that the delay is bugged, it doesn't start from the last bullet that hits you, it starts from the first, so you can still regenerate under fire.

Note that getting 18hp/s of regeneration means you have almost no HP, I have no idea how he gets 450hp but even with a complex plate and max skills you get almost nothing.
Usually armor tankers have around 10hp/s to 5hp/s, and shields have inherent 25hp/s.
A single module can put that in the 40's.

ITT: people argue over to best fail fit suits. In the grand scheme of things 20hps is moot whether it's armor or shields. Guns average over 500 dps in this game and medium suits tend to be sub 900 hp brick fit. Yours basically halving that trying to active armor tank. You want hp back in-between fights? then live long enough to pop a hive with reps, they'll dwarf **** reps anyways.

There's two ways to live under fire, kill the other sob before he kills you or avoid getting hit via mobility/cover. Everything else is a pipe dream.

Its actually a tactic used in EVE online in almost every fight...... i view the wykromi triage nanohive as an active armor repper. With good awareness im able to set up scenarios were ill still have an advantage in a 3 v 1 fight. Granted..... 9 times out of 10 im not fighting very good players, but when im 1 v 1 ing people i can tell whos good and who isn't (and you know what? i win most of those too......). Your right when you say 20 hp/s doesn't mean much in combat, but ill be damned if you think 88 hp/s doesn't..... i mean what do you think im doing??? standing still? i strafe just as much as anyone else. If the enemy takes the time to focus on my nanohive then that's just time spent not damaging me. If the enemy ignores the nanohive and procedes to try and "out-strafe" me, i just beat him out using sheer survivability. I mean jeez..... its not like im bending over and taking it lying down when i 1 v 1 people..... The suit isn't 100% of the reason im doing well :/

The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neit...
Oh wait, shields have no weakness, nevermind.

I'm quite new to this whole discussion so please excuse any ignorance, but my observation is that all of these points and stats point at 1 vs. 1, in which case I think it's pretty hard to argue that armour is on a level playing field as shields, but wouldn't you normally expect an armour tanker to have a logi buddy nearby most of the time, significantly boosting that repair rate and therefore survivablility?

Presumably balancing is based on this (in tehory at least), given that a shield tanker has only himslef to rely on but in at least some (and I'd expect most) cases an armour tanker should be getting some support from a logi?

I appreciate that a lot of logi's don;t play their role correctly so this might not be the case in reality, but as a dedicated support logi myslef I can appreciate the theory behoind it.

Of course this is probably moot if the majority of logis out there don't even equip a repper but that would make me sad!

G

^lol

Scrambler rifles eat through shields by the way guys.....

I'm quite new to this whole discussion so please excuse any ignorance, but my observation is that all of these points and stats point at 1 vs. 1, in which case I think it's pretty hard to argue that armour is on a level playing field as shields, but wouldn't you normally expect an armour tanker to have a logi buddy nearby most of the time, significantly boosting that repair rate and therefore survivablility?

Presumably balancing is based on this (in tehory at least), given that a shield tanker has only himslef to rely on but in at least some (and I'd expect most) cases an armour tanker should be getting some support from a logi?

I appreciate that a lot of logi's don;t play their role correctly so this might not be the case in reality, but as a dedicated support logi myslef I can appreciate the theory behoind it.

Of course this is probably moot if the majority of logis out there don't even equip a repper but that would make me sad!

G

It's all a matter of combat doctrine regen vs pure HP tanking

Who ever said armor tanks "ideally" have huge hp pools???? Lol, that's such a funny concept.... saying what things "should be" in a game that offers nearly limitless customization options. People say heavies are supposed to be slow with lots of HP, but that didn't stop me from meeting people who speed tanked heavies. Its all about your perception about these things man. When i got my respect..... no even before that i said "i want to armor tank with good damage to back it up" So for as early as two weeks before i got it (finally) i researched the best suit, and combination of modules that would produce a suit like this. Originally i was going to go proto amar logi, then i switched it to caldari, then i realized that gallente would be best for what i wanted to do. Then i discovered how the suit can be made even more effective using nanohives and kaboom, ive got what i got today. The IDEAL suit for ME...... simple as that!

True, very true...

hmmmm i can agree with this! That is more then acceptable in my opinion. My best fight (and one of the few references i have in a 1v1 against a proto caldari was on day 1).

I found him at a letter and he had the ishukone assault SMG. Crap you might say??? SMG = Armor tankings bane. We duked it out, i didn't have my hive, and he didn't have support so it was a 1 v 1. He beat me with 20 hp remaining, and i beat him later with slightly different circumstances giving me an edge. He was a very good player, as shown through the fight i had with him, and by the fact that he was at the top of his teams leaderboards at the end. That's one of like three 1 v 1 fights i can reference when fighting that suit specifically in a 1 v 1 and that's where i get a lot of my confidence from. Of course, its as you say, its much more difficult if he has a grenade ready to go, but that's why improvisation is a thing right? Still, this is a nice little debate we had huh? Did it make you sad when i admitted i was using a logi suit and not an assault suit?

True, very true...

^ that's all up to debate really..... Im sure that at the end of the day the CPM will do a great job at coming up with a solution for CCP to use......

Yeah.... that regen tanking will mean a whole lot when you get sniped. Or shotgunned. Or caught anywhere near a militia grenade...... I perefer 'buffer' tanking because like i said earlier, its better to have the extra HP ready to go, and not have it whenever the suit feels like its time to give it to you.

OH! and that speed reduction is negligible when you consider how much speed you actually have after a 3% reduction...... or in my case 9% which is still more then fast enough to get by.

hmmm a man once said something in this thread about hybrid tanking..... something like "the benefits of both tanking minus the negatives of either" or something like that..... idk. if you wanted a hybrid tank you should have went amar logi.

Are you...... one of the enlightened ones like me?

Well obviously armour works best under triage... is a flat undeniable increase in reps... That doesnt mean it can be used out of that situation, Marston VC has pointed that out.

I dont have maxed skills... im using an adv heavy with a single adv plate... and no where near maxed cpu/pg lol

The new modules DO help shield tankers... you get a better straight up stats using normal plates and reppers.



Shields dont have triage... so they are nothing alike lol... also the 1000hp cal logi is just down right broke

I dont find slow movement that much of a problem (im used to it ) and if thats the downside to gettin triage... im happy

The flaylock has 3 shots, the scrambler rifle has 72.........