This I've been armour tanking since before Uprising and even with all of these goodies it makes jack all difference to how I armour tank.

Issue is that even if you do hit 450 EHP with 18.5 Armour Reps per sec then I can get 600+ EHP on the caldari equivalent with a base of 20+ Shield rep and that requires no mods what so ever, now tac on the fact I can no boost shield regen rate with energisers with no skill investment, then tac on the armour plates I can hit well over 680 EHP with better rep and regen than armour tankers.....

that means I have about 230 more EHP than you a faster regen rate, and I using the modules that make your tanking variant special to benefit the opposite type.

On this toon I can hit about 180 Shield and 391 Armour now and Im slowed to a crawl, essentially have no rep rate..... Im failing to see the balance at all.

Keep in mind that shield tankers have a base delay before they start their regen, while armour tanking regens constantly. I can definitely see how 18 hp/s regen even while getting fired at is beneficial. as to the 18 hp/s, if he's running a logi suit he gets an inbuilt 5 hp/s and 4 or 5 low slots, opening the possibility of 2 complex reps and 2 plates

no a Cal Logi has 750 Shields and +100 armor so you are beat by 300 hp also armor is slower.

Here are ...
Ideal Modes of Tanking

Armor Tanking = able to do good in one large engagement but suffers at multiple engagements, Brawler
High HP, Low Regen, Slow

Shield Tanker = able to do well in small engagements and can recover quickly
Low HP, High Regen, Easy to detect with Scanning

Speed Tanker = able to avoid engagements/bullets and takes little damage from engagements but can't be involved in large engagements best paired with shield/repper tanking
Must be paired with another type of tanking preferably shield but if Ferro plates are fixed then Armor too
lowers Health but lowers amounts of bullets that actuallty hit the target

Damage Mod Tanking = able to end engagements quicker but can't take as much damage
Must be paired with another type of tanking preferably Armor but shields can be fitted easily.

Brick/Dual tanker = allows to stay in combat longer but takes longer to return to combat
Sub-type of Armor/Shields more raw HP less Regen

Regen Tanker = allows quicker re-entry into combat but reduces time in combat
Sub-type of Armor/Shields less raw HP more Regen

just increase armor plate HP by x2 and
reduce the speed penalty on complex armor plates to 7% to have a consistant interval of speed reduction.

When nanohives are infinite then I will take your words seriously.

I never said armor tanking isn't viable.
I'm saying Caldari suits and shield tanking do it better, always.
Heck even the developers themselves addmited it on a stream, there is currently no upside to armor tanking.

If nanohives were unlimited but had a recharge time, then we would be talking.

The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neit...
Oh wait, shields have no weakness, nevermind.

can i get a flux grenade ?

I'm quite new to this whole discussion so please excuse any ignorance, but my observation is that all of these points and stats point at 1 vs. 1, in which case I think it's pretty hard to argue that armour is on a level playing field as shields, but wouldn't you normally expect an armour tanker to have a logi buddy nearby most of the time, significantly boosting that repair rate and therefore survivablility?

Presumably balancing is based on this (in tehory at least), given that a shield tanker has only himslef to rely on but in at least some (and I'd expect most) cases an armour tanker should be getting some support from a logi?

I appreciate that a lot of logi's don;t play their role correctly so this might not be the case in reality, but as a dedicated support logi myslef I can appreciate the theory behoind it.

Of course this is probably moot if the majority of logis out there don't even equip a repper but that would make me sad!

G

Armor Tankers ideally should have a huge HP pool but slow passive regen exept if actively repped (nanohives or rep tools)

Shield Tankers should have moderate HP pools but regen fast if they can find cover.

It's all a matter of combat doctrine regen vs pure HP tanking

Okay, true but some things favor certian other things, sure in Eve you can shield tank with a gallente ship but it will be more effective if you armor tank.

Yup! That is true! unfortunately, the racial bonuses in eve make more sense then the racial bonuses in dust right now don't they??

hmmmm i can agree with this! That is more then acceptable in my opinion. My best fight (and one of the few references i have in a 1v1 against a proto caldari was on day 1).

I found him at a letter and he had the ishukone assault SMG. Crap you might say??? SMG = Armor tankings bane. We duked it out, i didn't have my hive, and he didn't have support so it was a 1 v 1. He beat me with 20 hp remaining, and i beat him later with slightly different circumstances giving me an edge. He was a very good player, as shown through the fight i had with him, and by the fact that he was at the top of his teams leaderboards at the end. That's one of like three 1 v 1 fights i can reference when fighting that suit specifically in a 1 v 1 and that's where i get a lot of my confidence from. Of course, its as you say, its much more difficult if he has a grenade ready to go, but that's why improvisation is a thing right? Still, this is a nice little debate we had huh? Did it make you sad when i admitted i was using a logi suit and not an assault suit?

standard ScR 45 shots
maybe the AScR has 72 rounds