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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
369
   |
Posted - 2013.07.03 18:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Now that the Dust has settled its time for the Feedback threads you said you would monitor in order to make proper changes. This is one of many.
So many of us armor tanks have found ways to make use of the new modules, although it allows us to deal with the penalties it still does not provide armor an edge apart from shields, nor does it provide "balance". Also I would like a Dev confirm that the way we are using the stacking penalties to our advantage was intentional when releasing the new plates.
Now it is to my assumption that armor tanking should provide the following:
#1 Very High HP- no to very low repair (0-4) - Slow speed
#2 High HP- Small repair (5-8) - medium speed
#3 Normal HP- Normal repair (9-12) - Normal speed ( or slightly slower)
#4 Low HP- Fast repair (18-31.25) - Fast speed
While shield tanking should, and does, provide the following:
#1 Normal HP - High repair (20-31.25) - Normal/Fast speed
#2 Low HP - Very High repair (31.25-88.25) - Normal/Fast speed
88.25 shield repair is obtainable by stacking 4 shield energizers on a Assault GK.0
#3 Lower HP - Very High repair (31.25-88.25) with close to no delay - Normal/Fast speed
What Normal HP means both equally stacked armor and shield suits. Normal repair for a Armor suit is 7-12, or around half of an equivalent shield suit due to a repairer adding in the rest.
Options #3 and #4 are now, kind of, available to us. The reason I say kind of is because the only suit able to fulfill category #3 is the Gallente Logistics, and option #4 has always been available to all suits.
Option #1 and #2 is what we need to set apart the Armor suits from the Shield suits, we need the modules to provide an option to have extremely high HP, enough HP that would reflect the work of 2 individual since basically to run a HIGH HP armor suit you need the user and a Logistics character. But at the same time they cannot penalize us to much in speed because speed affects our ability to fight back, and if we can't fight back we are just big slow targets.
So far what is keeping armor from doing these things is:
#1 High CPU/PG
This can "easily" be fixed with a racial bonus to the Gallente and Amarr to reduce the CPU/PG requirements of armor modules, if the armor module CPU/PG is reduced from the module side then it will create very powerful shield tanks.
#2 Not enough HP
The new modules, and old modules, to not give enough HP to provide this type of gameplay the highest HP Assault GK.0 can get is 1081, while a CK.0 can get up to 1027. Even though the GK.0 has 54 more HP they have a speed difference of 3.1%. That extra 4th module slot the GK.0 needs to provide enough HP to make putting one more complex module worth it. Which is actually not possible since the amount of PG armor modules use.
#3 Speed penalty
Yeah the speed penalty is a balancing feature I get it, but what is the point of playing an FPS if you cannot shoot anybody. The only person stacking very powerful plates benefits is a sniper or a TAC-AR. So in reality the only reason you would need the high HP is to survive being counter sniped, not to be a wall of steel defending a choke point. The speed penalty should be reduced slightly module side, racially, or at least make it so it increases that goes in line with the increase in HP.
#4 Repair
The repair of armor is a point of debate people say that armor should not repair as fast as shields because that's why we have armor repairers. Okay fair enough, but what about LLAVs that repair shields, or shield energizers and regulators? 31.25 armor repair does not equal the insane repair that is no achievable to shield users by stacking shield energizers. With 4 energizers you can increase your repair rate by 282.25%. I think that all suits should get a small passive armor repair, the higher base shield repair a suit has the lower the armor repair. Also the armor repair rate bonus to logistic suits should be lowered to 2.
Caldari - base armor repair 0
Assault: 0
Logistics: 2
Gallente - base armor repair of 3
Assault: 3
Logistics: 5
Amarr - base armor repair of 5
Assault: 5
Logistics: 7
Minmatar - base armor repair of 1
Assault: 1
Logistics: 3
Some say that having a base armor repair means that you do not have to skill into armor repair systems since it would give you a free module but, look at shields what do you spec into to have a repair rate 20-40% faster than other suits? And we are required to spec into armor repair systems no matter what, shield users only need to spec into shield extension and their base suit stats will take care of the rest. Fine do not give us a passive repair, but lets remove your passive repair and force you spec into a tree to repair your shields.
#5 Explosives
Explosive damage is our bane, our poison, and our enemy there is nothing, aside from a forge gun, that can kill a shield suit as fast as even basic grenades can kill an armor suit. Yes a flux grenade wipes your shields instantly but you can repair from it in 20-30 seconds. For a armor suit if we do not die we cannot recover from an explosive, and if we use repairers it takes us 50-150 seconds to recover from an explosive but since we have lower HP now chances our we will not survive the explosive anyways. In this case I suggest that flux grenades do 100s/10a damage and grenades do 100/115. What this does is that a basic flux grenade will wipe your shields and do 120 armor damage, and a basic locus will do 400 shield and 460 armor, although we can still be 2 shotted by grenades still, flux grenades and locus grenades can now 2 shot shield suits also. On the flaylock pistol, they are not a problem it is the Core flaylock pistol that is the problem with its huge splash radius, the radius needs to be the same as the other flaylock pistols or give it usage requirements equal to that of a light weapon or higher. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
369
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 18:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
. |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
105
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 19:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
tl;dr |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
375
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 19:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you can't bother reading it then your just not interested in it, so no tl;dr for you |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
380
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 22:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
bump
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Den-tredje Baron
ParagonX
154
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 22:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wouldn't it be the otheer way around with amarr and gall ?? gall = high rep lower EHP overall while amarr is low rep high overall EHP ?? ... nevermind 
The very big problem is that armors tankers high EHP can't really overdo shield tankers. You'r stating everything perfect. New armor modules are to weak (don't buff ferroscale that will also make shield tankers better)
And at the same time CPU upgrades does not take any kind of PG and are therefore just free CPU taken from the blue air.
So the suit that i'-żm looking at right now is the minmatar assault. Somewhat good bonus compared to the other assaults got 5 highs to stacks shield in (again this suit can get up to the level of gk.0 armor tanking just in shield) and got 2 lows to basically spawn more CPU from.
This is yet another thing armor tankers have gotten taken away.
Ohh and gk.0 is the assault suit with lowest amount of CPU/PG (I think you stated that to but oh well said it twice now ) so he's gonna have an even harder time fitting stuff.
Have you also noticed that a complex shield has same fitting spec as 2 enhanced except that it takes 1 less PG ?? No such thing with the complex plate. Gives less than 2 enhanced and have same fitting specs as 2 enhanced.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Come on CCP explosions work properly now so pleaaaaaase would you give armor some love over here ? |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
628
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shield stats: goooood
Armour stats: baaaad
New armour modules: MAKE HULK MAAAD |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
385
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 02:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
bump |
Emerald Bellerophon
Nenikekamen
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 08:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Den-tredje Baron wrote:Wouldn't it be the otheer way around with amarr and gall ?? gall = high rep lower EHP overall while amarr is low rep high overall EHP ?? ... nevermind
I imagine the lower repair rate for Gallente is supposed to encourage the fitting of repairer modules, keeping them faster, and for the Amarr (with their fewer low slots), fitting of plates, which further slow them down. Whether that'd be what happens is a different question.
I like this OP. +1 |
13th Clone
The Merc Net
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 08:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:#6 Logistic equipment
The Logistics equipment that offer direct infantry support, aside from non triage nanohives, only aide armor suits. Why not give repair tools a small repair to shields for example 5 HP/s for shields on basic tier, and make the nanite injectorevive a [ercentange of your total health for example instead of reviving for 20% of your armor revive for 10% of your armor and 10% of your shields. At the moment the only player a Logistic suit should logically follow is armor tanking suits, yeah reviving or repairing a Shield suit is slightly beneficial to them, but I can get a lot more points and help the overall team more by healing and reviving an armor suit, specially a juicy Amarr sentinel.
Really like this idea . |
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
389
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 10:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
bump |
Imp Smash
Seraphim Auxiliaries
CRONOS.
147
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 10:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Shield stats: goooood Armour stats: baaaad New armour modules: MAKE HULK MAAAD
So elegant and accurate. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
289
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 12:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quit blatently bumping your thread.
There is already an excellent thread here covering every aspect of armor tanking to the point I actually read the whole thing ... yours was tedious and nothing new.
Please direct discussions to this thread ... it's not mine, it's just better in all possible ways ...
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=947970 |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
391
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 13:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Quit blatently bumping your thread. There is already an excellent thread here covering every aspect of armor tanking to the point I actually read the whole thing ... yours was tedious and nothing new. Please direct discussions to this thread ... it's not mine, it's just better in all possible ways ... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=947970
Just my personal feedback on the issue.
I am aware of that thread, if you went through all the pages you will see a good of amount posting done by me you can start at page one.
Reason I am bumping is because I want a confirmation by CCP stating if the stacking penalty was intentional, a bug, or just a lucky coincidence. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
632
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 15:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Quit blatently bumping your thread. There is already an excellent thread here covering every aspect of armor tanking to the point I actually read the whole thing ... yours was tedious and nothing new. Please direct discussions to this thread ... it's not mine, it's just better in all possible ways ... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=947970
Flump. |
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