DUST Search - Optional Respecs after all New Content

Promethius Franklin wrote:

Malkai Inos wrote:

Promethius Franklin wrote:

How would you not consider all racial variants of the basic frame to not be core? I can see specializations not going with that logic, but every race should have it's entry for the basic suits.

Will MTACS be "specializations" in your opinion and if yes, why? Aren't MTACS, jets and whatever new stuff we get in the next years going to be the "core" stuff for some players just as the various suits, HAVs and DSs are for you right now?

That's getting hyperbolic, but actually, yes. I'd like to see the base versions of each vehicle and dropsuit size introduced (MTACS are hav specs though, so no, they don't qualify), then a single respec. The weapon tree becomes abit to extensive to wait for and we don't want this becoming habitual.

Malkai Inos wrote:

You either won't solve the central issue you pretend to address ( the fact that some people can not train the stuff they want) for anyone but those playing right now (read: you) or effectively demand respecs every few months.

No, there is a big misunderstanding here. Core content isn't defined by what people want to play. It's the base set of options from which all the others are built. Just because I run assault doesn't make that the base medium suit. That is what the medium frames are for.

Malkai Inos wrote:

I find both unacceptable. I will not condone respecs now just so that others will make the same demand a little later. I will not accept regular respecs for reasons that have been exhausted countless times.

I've never asked for or advocated regular respecs, just the prioritization of certain base game elements and a final respec to allow people to play their style without excess waste or just doing nothing with their skills for an indefinite period of time.


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Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 514	Posted - 2013.07.03 18:31:00 - [1] - Quote F1RST19 wrote: Signed 100% I dont see why other people are not agreeing but giving legit information on to not have another respec... How about you get lost and or ** off. Take your somewhere else.... I have 10mill skills into that I didnt want before because the stuff I had was broken, having another opportunity to have a respec is all we need... After this update... I mean this update is literally a game changer. fixed a ton of stuff.. I want my respec.... Seriously dude? I just posted links to a number of well versed reasons why respecs are bad; in that other thread on the same subject that you posted in, yet you keep insisting that no one gives legit information? In case you're just blind rather than dishonest i'll post it here again for you. Cross Atu wrote: Gaelon Thrace wrote: Cross Atu wrote:** To all Mercs in support of respecs please read and respond to in detail my posts #19 & #92. In this thread. As well as post #14 by Malkai Inos. There's a lot of ground to cover and the issues presented within those posts (as well as other posts in that thread) really do require an address before any such idea should be considered for adoption into the game. Cheers, Cross FYI you can link directly to the post by clicking the post number. I'll link the posts you mentioned here, here, and here to make it easier for anyone interested. The above covers standard concerns related to unlimited respec (aka all respec that do not have a specific hard cap on total lifetime number). I look forward to your reply regarding the concerns raised in the quoted links. Cheers, Cross
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 517	Posted - 2013.07.04 01:10:00 - [2] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: After *everything* is in it might be a good idea. Provide a usefull definition of "everything" that accounts for the fact that future players will face the same situation we do whenever something gets added with racial variants missing. No do it without effectively mandating by-annual or even more regular respecs, thus making the single most important point of SP void.
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 517	Posted - 2013.07.04 01:22:00 - [3] - Quote KOBLAKA1 wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Kador Ouryon wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: After *everything* is in it might be a good idea. dunno about that but after core content surely. Everything will never be in. The core content is already in, and they already had a respec. So Winmatar heavy skill is in? where is it willing to pay 2 mil for it Again, how did you determine Miny Heavies as "core" content? How do you differentiate "core" from "non-core" in such a way that it prevents future players from having the same problem you have now without making respecs a commonplace?
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 517	Posted - 2013.07.04 01:35:00 - [4] - Quote Promethius Franklin wrote: How would you not consider all racial variants of the basic frame to not be core? I can see specializations not going with that logic, but every race should have it's entry for the basic suits. Will MTACS be "specializations" in your opinion and if yes, why? Aren't MTACS, jets and whatever new stuff we get in the next years going to be the "core" stuff for some players just as the various suits, HAVs and DSs are for you right now? You either won't solve the central issue you pretend to address ( the fact that some people can not train the stuff they want) for anyone but those playing right now (read: you) or effectively demand respecs every few months. I find both unacceptable. I will not condone respecs now just so that others will make the same demand a little later. I will not accept regular respecs for reasons that have been exhausted countless times.
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 517	Posted - 2013.07.04 01:42:00 - [5] - Quote KOBLAKA1 wrote: Umm 4 races of Light, medium, and heavy suits. Again Medium Frame guys not getting it because they have all their stuff... You're not answering my question i'm afraid so let me rephrase it: How is it fair that you get your respec to your favourite heavy variant and at the same time the next KOBLAKA1 will not be allowed to respec into his favourite MTAC variant in a year or so. The issue is the same in both cases. You would have to tell the next KOBLAKA1 to HTFU just as we keep telling you now. You will have gotten what you wanted by that time, just as i have now. Why is this fair?
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 517	Posted - 2013.07.04 01:53:00 - [6] - Quote KOBLAKA1 wrote: I already answered this. KOBLAKA1 wrote: [quote=Koblaka1] MTACs equal no because there are no variants out already. There is a hevay variant amarr. edit: I also only condone the SP in Heavy Suits be refunded everything else should stay put. IE Core upgrades and shield extension DO NOT get refunded. I can tell you right now that the players that will face the same issue as you do currently will not care a bit about the fact that MTACS where not released by the time the last respec will have been granted and gone. Especially since the only difference between "get's a respec" and "get's no respec" is just the time it got released. From the future player's viewpoint, the situation will be just the same unless CCP actually manages to release content racially symmetrical from now on and i'm pretty sure this is not going to happen. Limiting it to the tree in question is helpfull, i agree. That's not my issue right now though.
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 518	Posted - 2013.07.04 02:21:00 - [7] - Quote Promethius Franklin wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: Promethius Franklin wrote: How would you not consider all racial variants of the basic frame to not be core? I can see specializations not going with that logic, but every race should have it's entry for the basic suits. Will MTACS be "specializations" in your opinion and if yes, why? Aren't MTACS, jets and whatever new stuff we get in the next years going to be the "core" stuff for some players just as the various suits, HAVs and DSs are for you right now? That's getting hyperbolic, but actually, yes. I'd like to see the base versions of each vehicle and dropsuit size introduced (MTACS are hav specs though, so no, they don't qualify), then a single respec. The weapon tree becomes abit to extensive to wait for and we don't want this becoming habitual. Malkai Inos wrote: You either won't solve the central issue you pretend to address ( the fact that some people can not train the stuff they want) for anyone but those playing right now (read: you) or effectively demand respecs every few months. No, there is a big misunderstanding here. Core content isn't defined by what people want to play. It's the base set of options from which all the others are built. Just because I run assault doesn't make that the base medium suit. That is what the medium frames are for. Malkai Inos wrote: I find both unacceptable. I will not condone respecs now just so that others will make the same demand a little later. I will not accept regular respecs for reasons that have been exhausted countless times. I've never asked for or advocated regular respecs, just the prioritization of certain base game elements and a final respec to allow people to play their style without excess waste or just doing nothing with their skills for an indefinite period of time. I wouldn't place MTACs as specialized HAVs if i were in charge of game design but that besides the point. My central point is that, in order to limit these respecs to the least amount possible, we would need a rock solid definition of what is supposed to qualify for respecs, what doesn't and why. This definition has to be self sufficient and be applicable to all new gear that could be released in the future. I take it your idea is to limit them to the Basic classes that have no precedent to themselves. This will solve the problem for quite some time but this definition would start to weaken again if, say, Super Heavy frames got introduced as a fith suit size in a year or two or if MTACS turned out to constitute their own basic vehicle class after all. By your definition (if i understand you correctly) it should apply to those new basic classes aswell and each would justify a new wave of respecs. That means that the actual amount of respecs aswell as the timeframe during wich respecs are a possibility can not be predetermined. I actually did propose this kind of mechanic myself here and think that it might be a worthwhile feature if the definition is solid enough. The point that i try to get across is that the implications of CCP going down that line without looking closely at this definition part are effectively unforseeable and such a solution could easily break the seal for virtually unlimited respecs. Edit: All of this assumes that adding content for all four races at the same time will not become the norm in the near future. This is the basis of me saying that completely new classes might cause the same kind of trouble we have now.
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 521	Posted - 2013.07.04 14:02:00 - [8] - Quote F1RST19 wrote: I could really care less about post that contain reasons we shouldn't get a respec. Hopefully you understand that some of us have over 10mil skill points, and we already put it into stuff, and on there hand, CCP continues to put out other game changing content, not only that, they dont even have heavy racial dropsuits, no rail, and combat rifle, what the hell am I supposed to do if I dont have enough to get their new **.... HAH take another 4-5 months and continue to pay this game for passive and active boosters, nah... Im done with that *. Then you are by definition* not interested in a resonable, objective discussion on this subject and it follows that arguing with you is a waste of time. You can not seriously expect me or anyone else to listen to your arguments when you already admitted that you don't care about anything that might disagree with you. We're done here as far as i'm concerned.
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 523	Posted - 2013.07.05 03:26:00 - [9] - Quote Draco Dustflier wrote: Ok then. New eden isn't for me. I'm leaving. And i won't look back. That's the part where you seem mature and reasonable.That i highly respect Draco Dustflier wrote: But remember this, *******, WE ARE NOT EVETARDS! Most of the people that play dust play for fun,and that fun lasts about a month before they realize their sutck in their specialty! us "console kids" could care less about whether or not our choices matter! And besides, most ofus only play this crap because its free. we have no commitment to the game. there's nothing keeping us here. have fun with your t- 2000 player count. That's the part where you resort to name calling and sweeping generalizations of both eve and "console players" (as if there's just one kind of them) to threaten CCP and players who disagree with you. To that i would reply: "good riddence".
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 523	Posted - 2013.07.05 03:57:00 - [10] - Quote Nix Vulken wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Nix Vulken wrote: This needs to be an option, make it cost isk, make it cost aur, make it cost $10, I don't care just make it happen! +1 Fine... $50,000 USD In Cash (no check or credit) Personally delivered to CCP headquarters. You pay for travel expenses. Wait 6 months for processing. For One Respec. Don't be stupid respecing is something common in every kind of rpg related game and not all of us spam them, I myself have never had one, I emailed CCP months ago and was skipped over for the respec last month. But instead of throwing a tantrum I'm just being realistic. If CCP was smart they'd implement features that actually, and this is the really super hard really complex part, makes them MONEY! OMG wow crazy concept. Vets will stop buying boosters when they can respec instantly instead of over he course of weeks/months. Gratulations, you just cannibalized one revenue stream with another. Net gain: Zero, likely negative in the long run.