DUST Search - [Feedback & Complaint] Stealth nerf to sniper rifles.

Laurent Cazaderon wrote:

Jathniel wrote:

Laurent Cazaderon wrote:

Jathniel wrote:

We were at 100% body, and 195% headshot damage.

Why is it now 90% and 175%?
Why the fk would you REDUCE headshot damage on a sniper rifle?

Can't you just fix what we say are problems?

I was just praising you, CCP. So why when you fix something, you have to break something else?

Just as my faith starts to restore, you go and do that.

Why?

Why give every weapon a 10% damage nerf, just to take it away... and then put it back on snipers?

I spec'd back into sniping, because I was pleased that it was doing good damage again. I did not spec back into sniping just for you to nerf them or put them at some kind added disadvantage.
I went through all of Chromosome dealing with a broken sniper mechanic. Namely, sniper rifles that are weak on the proto end against proto gear... Please, don't start it again. Not with things starting to be good.

I noticed a good difference today when facing a pack of proto users.... 10% is a big nerf. Fkin put that 10% back. Please.

Weirdly enough i still OHK most people through HS with my covenant snipe.

As I said, the difference is felt when facing proto suits. Not at lower tiers in HS.

Why is no one reading in this thread? Straight

>.<

Well, i still OHKed proto dudes running around. And still got OHked in my proto suit.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 562	Posted - 2013.07.03 07:34:00 - [1] - Quote We were at 100% body, and 195% headshot damage. Why is it now 90% and 175%? Why the fk would you REDUCE headshot damage on a sniper rifle? Can't you just fix what we say are problems? I was just praising you, CCP. So why when you fix something, you have to break something else? Just as my faith starts to restore, you go and do that. Why? Why give every weapon a 10% damage nerf, just to take it away... and then put it back on snipers? I spec'd back into sniping, because I was pleased that it was doing good damage again. I did not spec back into sniping just for you to nerf them or put them at some kind added disadvantage. I went through all of Chromosome dealing with a broken sniper mechanic. Namely, sniper rifles that are weak on the proto end against proto gear... Please, don't start it again. Not with things starting to be good. I noticed a good difference today when facing a pack of proto users.... 10% is a big nerf. Fkin put that 10% back. Please.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 562	Posted - 2013.07.03 07:38:00 - [2] - Quote it's idiotic, and it's starting to burn me up. shooting guys in proto suits, and they don't drop? still can't figure out why they would nerf sniper rifles. they stealth nerfed it too... as if someone wouldn't notice. fk that.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 562	Posted - 2013.07.03 07:58:00 - [3] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: Railgun is a hybrid weapon. Hybrid weapons do 90% vs armor. Headshots likely got a nerf because they register against Armor, so you're simply seeing the railguns' inherent weakness towards armor manifesting itself in a reduced modifier. Oh no. I don't think so, dude. They pulled a fast one. Blasters (Assault Rifles) are hybrids too. They are 110% vs. shields. Snipers are now 90% vs. shields. Who the fk asked for that? No one fkin asked them to do that. 10% makes a difference on the proto vs. proto level. Difference of 2 sniper rounds taking a suit down vs. 3. Oh yeah, 3 shots sounds reasonable to the infantry guy on the ground. Totally unreasonable on the sniper's end. 5 round magazine. On body shots that's 2 kills and 1 wounded player. (2 shots per kill), vs. 1 kill and 1 wounded. Which translates into a sniper's effectiveness of shooting hostiles off of an objective, covering an ally, you name it. Every fkin shot counts. Why the **** should 3 of my 5 round clip be wasted to kill anyone short of a Heavy? Because that someone thinks himself too important to get sniped? They need to put every fkin drop of damage RIGHT back where it was.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 562	Posted - 2013.07.03 07:58:00 - [4] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: What's the deal with the sniper optimal, falloff, absolute damage numbers, how did this affect things? Or am I just noticing the hybrid penalty? No dude. This bs is happening at point blank range.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 564	Posted - 2013.07.03 08:06:00 - [5] - Quote Spread word guys. This is some bull. We need to raise as much ruckus over this, as we did for the heavies when they nerfed their HMGs. Gonna take it to the CPM too. Maybe they know something I don't over this crap.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 574	Posted - 2013.07.03 18:27:00 - [6] - Quote Contacted 3 CPM guys... Maybe just maybe, they can find out what the story is behind this stealth nerf. Was it an accident, and if we can get it fixed. Between this, and Flux nades killing people again... I'm just smh.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 574	Posted - 2013.07.03 19:17:00 - [7] - Quote http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond/ lol so sniper rifles are going to be anti-armor now? same for the forge gun? lol as if armor guys didn't have enough against them already. Rather the railgun weapons be perfectly neutral in their damage output, but whatever... Thanks for not including this info in the patch notes.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 574	Posted - 2013.07.03 19:31:00 - [8] - Quote The added damage to armor means nothing, if your target is shield tanking. Congratulations you just broke sniper rifles. 10% means everything when a proto sniper is trying to take down a proto suit.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 574	Posted - 2013.07.03 19:53:00 - [9] - Quote Naedeus wrote: People are going to complain regardless. I've been sniping since I started back in open beta... and right now the sniper rifles feel like actual sniper rifles. This stealth nerf your complaining about has been applied to every weapon. Its the range optimization you're feeling. This nerf has nothing to do with range optimization. Spawn into a skirmish, and aim at a blueberry standing right next to you. You will see 90%. Do the same at a player 100m away. 200m. 400m. 90% on body. 175% on head. It's this crap about making it weaker to shields and stronger against armor. It sounds pretty on paper, and may work out well at other tiers, but in a match where a proto sniper rifle has to take down a proto suit, having a -10% vs. shields can dramatically effect the sniper's effectiveness. You only have 5 rounds. It's not like the sniper rifle keeps a steady stream of fire on a target like an AR.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 574	Posted - 2013.07.03 20:22:00 - [10] - Quote RoundEy3 wrote: Sigh... Faster movement, funky aiming 90% of the time, sniper rifles doing less damage than they did before, faster RDV dropoff time. It's game design to either get you behind an AR or in a LAV. The sniper rifles felt just fine in uprising. One of the few weapons that really had no problems. It's hard enough for snipers to be effective and be accepted as a team role. Now you might as well just grab an AR, all of your precious aiming doesn't count for much anymore. To make matters worse, all they're doing is making it more effective against armor guys. A sniper rifle DOES NOT need to do 110% damage against ANYTHING. Especially armor guys. They got enough against them as it is, what with the Flaylocks going around like candy. So now an already slow Gallente Assault has to deal with EXTRA damage from a sniper rifle? What are you guys thinking? The sniper doesn't discriminate. A target is a target. Why are we still pushing people toward shield tanking assault?

Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 574	Posted - 2013.07.03 20:36:00 - [11] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: It wouldn't be so bad if there was a laser sniper rifle variant which hit hard on shielded targets that way people could specialize. Absent this, we should see a damage boost to the proto Sniper Rifles until they can make more variants of it. 3-shotting a moving target with the highest-tier sniper rifle and stacked with damage mods is absurd. The sniper is a tough job to do well as it is, much harder than running around with ARs. Is there anywhere to look up what each weapon's optimal, effective, and absolute ranges are? Nope. We still don't have any information to know what a weapon's ranges are. Only a couple of ways to deal with this problem. 1. Put damage for the sniper rifles back where it was. OR 2. Increase the magazine size for every sniper rifle, by at least 1. (tacticals included)
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 575	Posted - 2013.07.03 22:25:00 - [12] - Quote low genius wrote: Jathniel wrote: We were at 100% body, and 195% headshot damage. Why is it now 90% and 175%? Why the fk would you REDUCE headshot damage on a sniper rifle? Can't you just fix what we say are problems? I was just praising you, CCP. So why when you fix something, you have to break something else? Just as my faith starts to restore, you go and do that. Why? Why give every weapon a 10% damage nerf, just to take it away... and then put it back on snipers? I spec'd back into sniping, because I was pleased that it was doing good damage again. I did not spec back into sniping just for you to nerf them or put them at some kind added disadvantage. I went through all of Chromosome dealing with a broken sniper mechanic. Namely, sniper rifles that are weak on the proto end against proto gear... Please, don't start it again. Not with things starting to be good. I noticed a good difference today when facing a pack of proto users.... 10% is a big nerf. Fkin put that 10% back. Please. because there were too many kittens not fighting, and sitting in the redline? ...and that has WHAT to do with this topic? Stay on-topic.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 576	Posted - 2013.07.03 22:49:00 - [13] - Quote Just got out of a PC match. A match that for all intents and purposes, should have been a walk in the park. In comparison, to 2 days ago. Where my sniper fire actually helped allies capture an objective, this time around it didn't down ANYONE. Just now, today. An Ishukone didn't kill ANYONE. Not a SINGLE kill with anything short of my Thale's. Ishukone. 3 damage mods. Full proficiency. Regular infantry needing 4 shots to drop. FOUR. Combined with their teleporting movements; and high shield regen, the sniper role was useless. UTTERLY USELESS It came in handy for one thing though! The enemy team had a sniper too. He got 5 kills.... only on me. 100% because he couldn't kill anything or anyone else I'm sure. Conclusion? This -10% damage vs. shields only exacerbates a problem that started to fade away: a sniper's uselessness. In a hardcore PC match where good proto fits will be used, a sniper rifle's only good use is for counter-sniping. Respec time. I was avoiding PC matches, just to avoid this ugly truth. I did one... I said, wow, maybe the sniper rifle can function properly now. -10% damage later... stark reality returns. GJ, CCP.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 577	Posted - 2013.07.03 23:39:00 - [14] - Quote Washlee wrote: Jathniel wrote: We were at 100% body, and 195% headshot damage. Why is it now 90% and 175%? Why the fk would you REDUCE headshot damage on a sniper rifle? Can't you just fix what we say are problems? I was just praising you, CCP. So why when you fix something, you have to break something else? Just as my faith starts to restore, you go and do that. Why? Why give every weapon a 10% damage nerf, just to take it away... and then put it back on snipers? I spec'd back into sniping, because I was pleased that it was doing good damage again. I did not spec back into sniping just for you to nerf them or put them at some kind added disadvantage. I went through all of Chromosome dealing with a broken sniper mechanic. Namely, sniper rifles that are weak on the proto end against proto gear... Please, don't start it again. Not with things starting to be good. I noticed a good difference today when facing a pack of proto users.... 10% is a big nerf. Fkin put that 10% back. Please. Probably has something to do with the new weapon range thing they put out. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond/ shrugs I don't want to play this role anymore. Not if it's going to suck, during critical matches where it needs to pack a punch. Making it do 10% against shields is exactly the same as pushing sniper rifles back to where they were doing Chromosome. I hated how they were in Chromosome, and that's why I spec'd assault coming into Uprising. I started playing sniper again, and not even a WEEK goes by, and BOOM, I'm back to Chromosome performance. "But it's only against shields." ffs... that's the FIRST thing you're going to hit every time. Not going to do this anymore. I went through nearly 6 months of Chromosome... I refuse to go back. The game was so badly balanced for sniper rifles. I can't do it. It's not fair. I won't.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 583	Posted - 2013.07.04 08:53:00 - [15] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: Does this seem like a fair way of saying just how tired we are of stealth changes? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1008555#post1008555 I'm now looking for a respec. Here's the best part: Someone will say, "No respecs. That will break the game. You should have been more careful with your SP." My answer: "I WAS careful. I knew exactly what I wanted. I spec'd into Gallente Logi Sniper. Good damage. Decent tank in case of counter snipers. And my entire build in literally 1 week was flipped on its head, by a stealth nerf, and a 24 hour late blog. No word beforehand that this would happen." In a game where your build takes time and dedication to get, can you afford not to have a respec option if that can potentially change from month to month? Stealth changes, can break the game for a LOT of people. Especially people that don't have much SP. If i can't get my respec.... I'm just going to have to quit, and passively gain SP for a LOOOONG time, before coming back to play something else.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 583	Posted - 2013.07.04 09:15:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: Hello, What you are experiencing is not a "Stealth nerf". It is updated weapon profiles that we detailed in our latest dev blog. Thank you for your feedback. 24 hours (more or less) after the fact, Frame. No one saw this coming. It's still considered "stealth", because it happened before it was announced, on that dev blog. In fact, no one was remotely informed that those particular changes would take place. I've already linked to that dev blog (on page 2), thanks. It doesn't change that an entire fitting has been ruined by a dramatic change that the playerbase wasn't even informed would take place.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 583	Posted - 2013.07.04 09:18:00 - [17] - Quote Absolute Idiom II wrote: >doesn't pay attention to public devblogs >complains about 'stealth nerfs' >is moron >is OP >doesn't check dates on public devblogs >tries hard to be witty >is a dev kiss-ass >is low-IQ'd STFU and get out my thread.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 583	Posted - 2013.07.04 09:21:00 - [18] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Jathniel wrote: We were at 100% body, and 195% headshot damage. Why is it now 90% and 175%? Why the fk would you REDUCE headshot damage on a sniper rifle? Can't you just fix what we say are problems? I was just praising you, CCP. So why when you fix something, you have to break something else? Just as my faith starts to restore, you go and do that. Why? Why give every weapon a 10% damage nerf, just to take it away... and then put it back on snipers? I spec'd back into sniping, because I was pleased that it was doing good damage again. I did not spec back into sniping just for you to nerf them or put them at some kind added disadvantage. I went through all of Chromosome dealing with a broken sniper mechanic. Namely, sniper rifles that are weak on the proto end against proto gear... Please, don't start it again. Not with things starting to be good. I noticed a good difference today when facing a pack of proto users.... 10% is a big nerf. Fkin put that 10% back. Please. Weirdly enough i still OHK most people through HS with my covenant snipe. As I said, the difference is felt when facing proto suits. Not at lower tiers in HS. Why is no one reading in this thread? >.<
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 583	Posted - 2013.07.04 09:32:00 - [19] - Quote Aoena Rays wrote: Jathniel wrote: CCP Frame wrote: Hello, What you are experiencing is not a "Stealth nerf". It is updated weapon profiles that we detailed in our latest dev blog. Thank you for your feedback. 24 hours (more or less) after the fact, Frame. No one saw this coming. It's still considered "stealth", because it happened before it was announced, on that dev blog. In fact, no one was remotely informed that those particular changes would take place. I've already linked to that dev blog (on page 2), thanks. It doesn't change that an entire fitting has been ruined by a dramatic change that the playerbase wasn't even informed would take place. If you are not able to read in game and understand damage profiles in the first place then just send support ticket to GM team and wait for them to refund you SP from sniper rifle skill if you hate it so much. And stop ranting. FFS..... I've been playing since last year. I'm not new to damage profiles. The current damage profile is what's new. NOTHING relating to these new damage profiles was presented to the playerbase until AFTER the fact. There was NO information to make an informed decision beforehand.... at all. NO info. NONE. Does that make sense? Am I being clear? Just a few days ago, someone would skill into a sniper rifle expecting a 100%/100% damage profile. On July 2, that was suddenly changed to 90%/110%. There was no warning. There was NO information. On July 3, the dev blog announcing the change was posted. Do you understand this chain of events? Do you understand now why some players would like to be in on such things beforehand? If it's not reasonable for them to know beforehand, can you see why some would like the ability to have a respec? Feel dumb yet? Stop jumping on to the bandwagon of ridicule without knowing what's going on first.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 585	Posted - 2013.07.04 10:21:00 - [20] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Jathniel wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Jathniel wrote: We were at 100% body, and 195% headshot damage. Why is it now 90% and 175%? Why the fk would you REDUCE headshot damage on a sniper rifle? Can't you just fix what we say are problems? I was just praising you, CCP. So why when you fix something, you have to break something else? Just as my faith starts to restore, you go and do that. Why? Why give every weapon a 10% damage nerf, just to take it away... and then put it back on snipers? I spec'd back into sniping, because I was pleased that it was doing good damage again. I did not spec back into sniping just for you to nerf them or put them at some kind added disadvantage. I went through all of Chromosome dealing with a broken sniper mechanic. Namely, sniper rifles that are weak on the proto end against proto gear... Please, don't start it again. Not with things starting to be good. I noticed a good difference today when facing a pack of proto users.... 10% is a big nerf. Fkin put that 10% back. Please. Weirdly enough i still OHK most people through HS with my covenant snipe. As I said, the difference is felt when facing proto suits. Not at lower tiers in HS. Why is no one reading in this thread? >.< Well, i still OHKed proto dudes running around. And still got OHked in my proto suit. Can't tell if CPM member is trying to help... or troll... The issue isn't about OHKing. It's about body shots, with snipers weaker than the Charge sniper rifle and the Thale's. Losing 10% damage off your opening shots is significant. A tiny margin of HP determines whether your target lives or dies. In turn, that extra shot needed to finish off that target (if no friendlies are near by), translates into essentially wasted ammo, and reduced overall effectiveness. The difference of OHK, 2 shots, and 3. Out of a 5 round clip. This difference becomes clear against proto gear opponents in PC. In particular, caldari units. The -10% vs. shields has simply made them more durable. The +10% vs. armor makes no difference. Not like we needed extra offensive power against armor players, which is already having a hard time as it is.

Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 585	Posted - 2013.07.04 10:33:00 - [21] - Quote Aoena Rays wrote: Yo, dawg. Here. http://dust514.com/community/support/ Tell them this: "i can't 1shot people now with my sniper, give me back my SP from sniper skills so I can spec into something else thx". And GM will do that. It is not that hard, if 10% really matters to you. Which it does, apparently. Oh yes indeed it DOES matter to me, good sir. Damage profiles are just as important to the game as base damages, and damage mods. Messing with damage profiles is the same as nerfing or buffing something. Imagine if HMGs were 110% or 120% vs. shields and 90% or 80% vs. armor. That would completely change the mechanic. Damage profiles are the final thing that dictate balance. That's what prevents your hand weapons and turrets from damaging the MCC. That's what stops small arms from being too effective against vehicles. Damage profiles and how they stack with base damages, proficiency bonuses, and damage mods are ALL very important! I do apologize for ranting, but with how integral damage profiles are to the game and it's balance, you would think that CCP would be willing to let us now that they intend to make adjustments to it, BEFOREHAND. As a simple courtesy right? Is that an unreasonable request?
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 587	Posted - 2013.07.04 19:35:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Eterne wrote: Well guys, I'm not sure why this change wasn't properly included in the patch notes ahead of time. It may have been a result of the adjusted weapon profiles, but it still should have been included in the patch notes properly. I do apologize for it, guys. Thanks for this. It helps. I know we're well past the deadline for respecs. I had a respec, which I used to run as a Caldari assault (which was very fun) in Uprising. But I found sniping to be more fun. So I started skilling back into sniping, because I felt that sniping was in a better place, compared to where it was in Chromosome. I took a look at the skill tree, and plotted my course. But it was taking time, so I tried my luck at asking for a 2nd respec. After being told, I would NOT get a 2nd respec, I still somehow did. I was elated with my luck, and went happily into the fit I knew I wanted to snipe with it. But.... ...barely a week later, ALL THIS happens... Now I regret receiving that skill respec, that I was never supposed to get in the first place. I've filed a HD ticket requesting a respec to undo the damage of the accidental one, but I don't know how good my chances are that someone will help me undo this. I simply won't play sniper role, under the new conditions. >.<
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 587	Posted - 2013.07.04 22:01:00 - [23] - Quote Captain Wontubulous wrote: madd greazy wrote: calisk galern wrote: madd greazy wrote: Cat Merc wrote: >Can shoot people from miles away where they can't even see him, with extreme damage often one shotting lower level suits >Complaining Seriously, sniping is the easiest thing ever. You got no risk, all the reward. Just point and shoot, collect WP. Snipers should have ballistics (drop off, time to reach the target, etc') LMAO if they added bullet drop to snipers or all weapons for that matter, do you realize how many of these QQ'ers would be raging cuz they don't know how to aim... I don't really mind...wouldn't be a sniper if you can't handle bullet drop. maybe you just suck, and can't handle being a sniper so you come ***** about snipers any chance you get. bro i clearly don't have troubles sniping if i 2 shot protos with militia gear, and these proto sniper users say they cant even 4 shot someone... sad, and so is your reading skills. All I'm seeing is you have no idea what you're talking about or you're shooting people point blank. The Long distance rifles have had their damage nerfed at longer ranges. Closer ranges will still do the damage they used to. If you think you're 2 shotting well fit proto suits with a militia rifle at 400m you are completely wrong. No questions about it. Poor guy thinks he's killing protobears with his militia sniper. Wow. He's probably shooting fools that stack all damage mods.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 591	Posted - 2013.07.05 19:15:00 - [24] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: You're not supposed to be soloing the entire enemy team with your redline sniper with view over most of the battlefield No, but you should be able to actually kill things with a f*cking high-powered long range railgun to the head when you've maxed out the skillpoints in it and are wearing a glass-cannon fit with no tank. I'm sure you still can. Aren't you still able to hit for more than 450 damage against shield tankers (including the 10% penalty that is) with the Thale's? That's still only two shots against anyone not dual tanking heavily or any heavies, in which case three shots would be enough every time. Headshots will still take out most shield tankers in one shot. Honestly, I don't see any problem. Well, Ben it's a big problem when your only truly effective weapon is your Thale's. I'm not a glass cannon sniper, but with the changes to the sniper rifle weapon profile, I may as well be. lol That extra 10% damage to armor renders my defensive choice obsolete. So much for tanking counter-snipers now. xD I'm not saying every sniper rifle needs to punch as hard as the Thale's (which is arguably the strongest gun in the game... the thing is a fckin cannon), but the ones short of the Charge have lost that healthy middle ground that they had between the Thale's and where they are now, simply because of -10% damage off their opening shot. Support and objective covering is what we do... but if it's taking 3+ rounds to drop targets, that gets impossible (unless of course you're using the Thale's). So we're right back to where we were in Chromosome. The Thale's being the only truly effective sniper rifle vs. protobears. xD I do have faith that we have more sniper variants coming however... maybe an anti-shield laser sniper of some sort.