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RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
286
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Posted - 2013.07.17 04:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:\o/ more wild numbers and changes. Anything close to doubling numbers would bring the letters O and P together!
Example from above...
enhanced armour plat + complex rep = 174hp + 10ar/s -5% speeeed
Dat there be crazy talk! your effectivly strapping a scout to your chest Excuse me I'm trying to commute. I don't appreciate almost wetting myself thanks!
Edit: On topic! The numbers need a little adjustment for sure, but the ONLY way to fix armour is to put reactive and ferroscale in the highs to stop shield tankers using them. Problem solved. The numbers should be high enough so it's an attractive alternative to just throwing on some complex shields. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
286
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 12:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
zzZaXxx wrote:RINON114 wrote:ChromeBreaker wrote:\o/ more wild numbers and changes. Anything close to doubling numbers would bring the letters O and P together!
Example from above...
enhanced armour plat + complex rep = 174hp + 10ar/s -5% speeeed
Dat there be crazy talk! your effectivly strapping a scout to your chest Excuse me I'm trying to commute. I don't appreciate almost wetting myself thanks! Edit: On topic! The numbers need a little adjustment for sure, but the ONLY way to fix armour is to put reactive and ferroscale in the highs to stop shield tankers using them. Problem solved. The numbers should be high enough so it's an attractive alternative to just throwing on some complex shields. Having different plates in different slots is inconsistent and feels wrong. Anyway shield tankers should be able to use armor modules just as armor tankers can use shield modules. How? We have the same equivalent for shields with the regulators and rechargers in lows. Move plates or reppers to highs and it's fixed. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
286
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 13:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
WeapondigitX V7 wrote:In a recent dev blog the damage bonuses against armor and shield were shown. (I think the dev blog was released around July 8 roughly give or take 7 days.)
All explosives were shown to do 120% damage to armor and projectile weapons did roughly 110% damage to armor etc. Nothing did more than 120% damage to armor. ARs did roughly 90% damage to armor if I remember correctly.
The basic reactive plates need there repping speed increased by 1 hp/sec
The advanced reactive plates need there repping speed increased by 2 hp/sec
The proto version needs the repping speed increased by 1 hp/sec
I don't seem to have problems with the other plates states. However the ferroscale and reactive plates should also be available in the high slots as well as low slots. How do you not see a problem? Currently all armour modules are in the low slots, and both reactive and ferroscale plates are outmatched easily by basic armour plates or complex reppers. Complex ferroscale sound nice but their PG/CPU usage is way too high to make them an option over two sets of basic plates.
The new modules should be put into high slots and tweaked a little, so they're actually a viable solution.
You may also find this interesting. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
287
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 04:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
WeapondigitX V7 wrote:RINON114 wrote:WeapondigitX V7 wrote:In a recent dev blog the damage bonuses against armor and shield were shown. (I think the dev blog was released around July 8 roughly give or take 7 days.)
All explosives were shown to do 120% damage to armor and projectile weapons did roughly 110% damage to armor etc. Nothing did more than 120% damage to armor. ARs did roughly 90% damage to armor if I remember correctly.
The basic reactive plates need there repping speed increased by 1 hp/sec
The advanced reactive plates need there repping speed increased by 2 hp/sec
The proto version needs the repping speed increased by 1 hp/sec
I don't seem to have problems with the other plates states. However the ferroscale and reactive plates should also be available in the high slots as well as low slots. How do you not see a problem? Currently all armour modules are in the low slots, and both reactive and ferroscale plates are outmatched easily by basic armour plates or complex reppers. Complex ferroscale sound nice but their PG/CPU usage is way too high to make them an option over two sets of basic plates. The new modules should be put into high slots and tweaked a little, so they're actually a viable solution. You may also find this interesting. If I remember correctly the complex ferroscale plates take less CPU but a bit more PG than a complex shield extender and give a bit less armor. To me they seem balanced. Except that you cant have ferroscale plates taking way more CPU and PG and giving way more armor compared to complex shield extenders currently.(that's my only problem). The plates are better if combined with normal armor plates or reactive plates. Though others might think otherwise. How is it balanced? If the CPU/PG is balanced but they give less hp? That is the precise opposite of balance. The point here is that the plates are purely garbage, there is no reason to use ferroscale because they give you an hp disadvantage over using shields with no other positive. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
288
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 05:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
I disagree, I personally think that either the new plates receive a small buff and move to high slots OR we move reppers to highs.
I'm in favour of either of these solutions because they counteract the main strength of shields which is that they can tank much more effectively. If we armour tankers want to do anything other than tank, we sacrifice our tank. Shield users do not, except for damage mods which aren't as effective as stacking another complex shield extender anyway.
The point here really is that all of the GÇ£usefulGÇ¥ mods to an armour tanker are in the low slots, cardiac regulators, kinetic catalyzers, PG/CPU upgrades; all of which could help alleviate the penalties of armour, but can't because they're in the wrong slot.
Edit: Removed the quote because it was jacked up from the previous posts. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
288
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 05:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Left a comment but it's the same as here: Move reppers and the new plates to highs. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
292
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 02:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
WeapondigitX V7 wrote:The actual benefit of ferroscale plates is that they cost less to use (CPU/PG wise) and give you roughly the same amount of HP compared to shield extenders while not slowing you down. Thus as a result usually you will not need CPU and PG enhancer modules. That's if you use basic modules with basic suits and adv modules with adv suits etc and assuming you have level 5 passive skills that boost CPU and PG along with the weapons you equip with level 5 skills reducing there CPU/PG cost. This may have been CCPs line of thinking.
Basic armor plates may slow you down slightly, however I do think the speed penalty does escalate too fast as the modules go from basic to proto. This would be true if ferroscale cost at least equal in powergrid but lower in CPU, PG requirements for ferroscale are more than the extenders whilst still giving a lesser hp bonus. Fix the PG on ferroscale and they're fine. Let's not forget that you get the same efficacy bonus for shield extenders, which when applied to the slightly higher hp of a complex extender, gives even more hp.
Reactive plates should have a much lesser movement penalty and should be put in the high slots along with reppers. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
295
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 09:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Why Increase reps? I'm just interested why you would say that. shields have a slight delay before reping, but once they do, they recover at enormus rates 20+ hp/s. if i have 400 shields and they are depleted after my 3-4 second own time, and my hp heals at 20 per second in 24 seconds my shields are full if i have 400 armor and i am at 0 armor (and still alive), with two 4 complex armor repairers i heal at 20 hp/s, so i get to 400 in 20 seconds. may look balanced but there are several things to keep in mind: 1. 20 hp/s for sheilds is a basic level and can be increased, (with shield enegizers you can heal shield at almost 50 hp/s) 2. this is assuming i have complex level amor repairers. even with proficiency it doesn't equal the sheids superiority in this matter 3. when shields are gone you have armor, when armor is gone your dead. 4. due to high dps of most guns under direct fire this will not impact longevity. Your maths are a little wonky which is why it looks balanced. Please tell me how you can fit 4 complex reppers and have 400hp? I have all armour skills to 5 and I use two basic plates. I get 405 armour with skills included. 4 complex reppers would give you 20hp/s repair rate (plus the 25% from the skill required to use them) BUT your HP would be terribad. Shields CAN do this though, and have more than 400hp WITH 20hp/s regen. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
298
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 00:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:this is my point^^. than in the most extreme case (using a proto amarr heavy, or proto galente) you can baerly break even with shields on a militia suit.
basically if it takes max skills for armor reping to get even with militia level base shield repairing (when unaltered) then there is a serious problem. You didn't really make that point clear at all, it was written like the two were balanced which they aren't in any way shape or form. I am glad that I could prove your point through disproving it though...
I still retain that reppers and reactive plates go into high slots and Gallente (I don't know about the other races) get an extra high slot. |
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