DUST Search - Some way to reward AV Players

Snagman 313 wrote:

Martin0 Brancaleone wrote:

KOBLAKA1 wrote:

I'd be for a bonus to Damage Dealt and amount repped etc. Maybe make it a isk payout multiplier with tiers

ie 1.1% increase at 10k damage dealt, 1.2 at 20k damage etc

Not sure what to do with damage taken. Maybe the same but divide it by deaths first. so 40k damage divided by 1 death rewards a well tanked player but 40k damage recieved with 13 deaths doesnt reward a crappy play style. (if a logi or AV your damage given/damage repped would give you your extra payout). but there shouldnt be a way to lose isk, i mean if you went 0-13 you lost suits which equal isk.

edit: these are just hypothetical numbers, more in depth one would be needed to implement it

2nd edit: would reward anyone playing well, which may be good since WP and kdr alone don't tell the whole story

3rd edit (lol): This would also reward vehicle players and bridge the gap in isk vs risk of fielding good tanks and DSes. Also that crazy damage from RDVs would be alleviated a bit which is klinda fair. RDVs are like a god slapping you, not much you can do but die.

I like this idea, the only thing i fear are people getting paid a lot because they blow up CRUs and supply depots.

I was worried about this but I think since it's ISK and not WP/SP people would be a lot less keen on blowing up CRU's and Supply depots which have a lot of strategic value in game.

Snag

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Snagman 313 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 98	Posted - 2013.07.02 06:21:00 - [1] - Quote Morning Lads and Ladettes, The other day I was playing in a FW skirmish with my corp mates and as usual the enemy bring down a Madrugar which seems to be the more popular tank right now. Now I play AV almost to the extreme and have trained a few guys in my corp up however in this match only I was available to combat the HAV. Now this in itself isn't unusual and I can always drive off a HAV and often destroy it over 2 to 3 clones. But whoever was piloting the HAV did a stellar job and basically me and him had a running firefight all over the map, ahh good times. The problem came at the end of the match where I went 0/6 and got sod all SP or ISK where I had sacrificed over 750K of my own ISK. Now it's fair enough to say use cheaper fits and so forth but I have no doubt in my mind I could not have held back this HAV pilot without Proto gear. I would suggest a reward of ISK maybe 150K if your damage dealt in match exceeds 20,000 since mine was 39,000 ish. Thoughts? Snag
KOBLAKA1 Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 171	Posted - 2013.07.02 06:27:00 - [2] - Quote I'd be for a bonus to Damage Dealt and amount repped etc. Maybe make it a isk payout multiplier with tiers ie 1.1% increase at 10k damage dealt, 1.2 at 20k damage etc Not sure what to do with damage taken. Maybe the same but divide it by deaths first. so 40k damage divided by 1 death rewards a tank but 40k damage recieved with 13 deaths doesnt reward a crappy play style. (if a logi or AV your damage given/damage repped would give you your extra payout). but there shouldnt be a way to lose isk, i mean if you went 0-13 you lost suits which equal isk.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2013.07.02 06:47:00 - [3] - Quote I may be wrong, but I believe that in previous builds, you would earn WP from damaging a vehicle. For instance, you spawn in a forge gun fit, and eventually, shoot and hit a Madrugar. That one forge gun hit would instantly net you WP (say, 25/50 or something). That way, AV players would attain WP, even if they are unable to destroy the vehicle. I hope that the aforementioned system is reimplemented in the near future. It seems the most viable way to let AV players get the WP they deserve. Obviously, such a system would be open to abuse and potentially obscene WP gain, so I imagine limitations similar conceptually to the ones Logistics must deal with being implemented.
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 371	Posted - 2013.07.02 06:48:00 - [4] - Quote KOBLAKA1 wrote: I'd be for a bonus to Damage Dealt and amount repped etc. Maybe make it a isk payout multiplier with tiers ie 1.1% increase at 10k damage dealt, 1.2 at 20k damage etc Not sure what to do with damage taken. Maybe the same but divide it by deaths first. so 40k damage divided by 1 death rewards a well tanked player but 40k damage recieved with 13 deaths doesnt reward a crappy play style. (if a logi or AV your damage given/damage repped would give you your extra payout). but there shouldnt be a way to lose isk, i mean if you went 0-13 you lost suits which equal isk. edit: these are just hypothetical numbers, more in depth one would be needed to implement it 2nd edit: would reward anyone playing well, which may be good since WP and kdr alone don't tell the whole story 3rd edit (lol): This would also reward vehicle players and bridge the gap in isk vs risk of fielding good tanks and DSes. Also that crazy damage from RDVs would be alleviated a bit which is klinda fair. RDVs are like a god slapping you, not much you can do but die. I like this idea, the only thing i fear are people getting paid a lot because they blow up CRUs and supply depots.
Snagman 313 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 98	Posted - 2013.07.02 06:49:00 - [5] - Quote I like what you're thinking Koblaka1, it's a bit more in depth than mine but it has greater scope in the long run and the ISK for damage is a good idea, I know when I'm running HMG for the corp that I take loads of damage but get nothing for it other than a bit of praise from the lads. Snag
Snagman 313 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 98	Posted - 2013.07.02 06:54:00 - [6] - Quote Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: KOBLAKA1 wrote: I'd be for a bonus to Damage Dealt and amount repped etc. Maybe make it a isk payout multiplier with tiers ie 1.1% increase at 10k damage dealt, 1.2 at 20k damage etc Not sure what to do with damage taken. Maybe the same but divide it by deaths first. so 40k damage divided by 1 death rewards a well tanked player but 40k damage recieved with 13 deaths doesnt reward a crappy play style. (if a logi or AV your damage given/damage repped would give you your extra payout). but there shouldnt be a way to lose isk, i mean if you went 0-13 you lost suits which equal isk. edit: these are just hypothetical numbers, more in depth one would be needed to implement it 2nd edit: would reward anyone playing well, which may be good since WP and kdr alone don't tell the whole story 3rd edit (lol): This would also reward vehicle players and bridge the gap in isk vs risk of fielding good tanks and DSes. Also that crazy damage from RDVs would be alleviated a bit which is klinda fair. RDVs are like a god slapping you, not much you can do but die. I like this idea, the only thing i fear are people getting paid a lot because they blow up CRUs and supply depots. I was worried about this but I think since it's ISK and not WP/SP people would be a lot less keen on blowing up CRU's and Supply depots which have a lot of strategic value in game. Snag
Snagman 313 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 98	Posted - 2013.07.02 06:59:00 - [7] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: I may be wrong, but I believe that in previous builds, you would earn WP from damaging a vehicle. For instance, you spawn in a forge gun fit, and eventually, shoot and hit a Madrugar. That one forge gun hit would instantly net you WP (say, 25/50 or something). That way, AV players would attain WP, even if they are unable to destroy the vehicle. I hope that the aforementioned system is reimplemented in the near future. It seems the most viable way to let AV players get the WP they deserve. Obviously, such a system would be open to abuse and potentially obscene WP gain, so I imagine limitations similar conceptually to the ones Logistics must deal with being implemented. It was in one of the very early builds, I can't think which one. I wasn't sure about suggesting WP rewards as I don't know if it could be abused for SP. I was imagining a rush of Forge gunners racing out at the start of a match to blow up all enemy installations and ignoring objectives. Although there might be a way to code it for only enemy vehicles??? Snag
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2013.07.02 07:22:00 - [8] - Quote Snagman 313 wrote: It was in one of the very early builds, I can't think which one. I wasn't sure about suggesting WP rewards as I don't know if it could be abused for SP. I was imagining a rush of Forge gunners racing out at the start of a match to blow up all enemy installations and ignoring objectives. Although there might be a way to code it for only enemy vehicles??? Snag I doubt that there would be any significant increase in people rushing to destroy installations, but I've got no functional crystal ball. In the event of an increase in players trying to destroy them, there are two options I can think of to alleviate it to current levels: 1) the one you already mentioned. I am no coder, so I have no idea if it is feasible, though I'd guess that it is possible to limit WP for damage to vehicles only. 2) decrease the amount of WP gained from installation destruction from 100 to around 25. Installations generally take 2 - 4 shots, so that leave installation destruction giving a total of 75 - 100 WP (assuming 25 WP for damaging it), depending on how many hits it takes you to bring it down.
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 372	Posted - 2013.07.02 10:02:00 - [9] - Quote Snagman 313 wrote: Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: KOBLAKA1 wrote: I'd be for a bonus to Damage Dealt and amount repped etc. Maybe make it a isk payout multiplier with tiers ie 1.1% increase at 10k damage dealt, 1.2 at 20k damage etc Not sure what to do with damage taken. Maybe the same but divide it by deaths first. so 40k damage divided by 1 death rewards a well tanked player but 40k damage recieved with 13 deaths doesnt reward a crappy play style. (if a logi or AV your damage given/damage repped would give you your extra payout). but there shouldnt be a way to lose isk, i mean if you went 0-13 you lost suits which equal isk. edit: these are just hypothetical numbers, more in depth one would be needed to implement it 2nd edit: would reward anyone playing well, which may be good since WP and kdr alone don't tell the whole story 3rd edit (lol): This would also reward vehicle players and bridge the gap in isk vs risk of fielding good tanks and DSes. Also that crazy damage from RDVs would be alleviated a bit which is klinda fair. RDVs are like a god slapping you, not much you can do but die. I like this idea, the only thing i fear are people getting paid a lot because they blow up CRUs and supply depots. I was worried about this but I think since it's ISK and not WP/SP people would be a lot less keen on blowing up CRU's and Supply depots which have a lot of strategic value in game. Snag I fear you underestimate the stupidity of some tankers and AV guys
Thalen Shadow S.e.V.e.N. 9	Posted - 2013.07.02 10:41:00 - [10] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Snagman 313 wrote: It was in one of the very early builds, I can't think which one. I wasn't sure about suggesting WP rewards as I don't know if it could be abused for SP. I was imagining a rush of Forge gunners racing out at the start of a match to blow up all enemy installations and ignoring objectives. Although there might be a way to code it for only enemy vehicles??? Snag I doubt that there would be any significant increase in people rushing to destroy installations, but I've got no functional crystal ball. In the event of an increase in players trying to destroy them, there are two options I can think of to alleviate it to current levels: 1) the one you already mentioned. I am no coder, so I have no idea if it is feasible, though I'd guess that it is possible to limit WP for damage to vehicles only. 2) decrease the amount of WP gained from installation destruction from 100 to around 25. Installations generally take 2 - 4 shots, so that leave installation destruction giving a total of 75 - 100 WP (assuming 25 WP for damaging it), depending on how many hits it takes you to bring it down. Although these are good ideas, they would overly reward low damage weapons (Lower Meta ones) as it would take multiple shots to take out a structure. You would be better off rewarding people for the first time they damage a structure or vehicle with AV weaponry in a match. (This for each structure or vehicle. if a driver returns then re summons i would count this as a separate vehicle). what are your thoughts on this?

ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 610	Posted - 2013.07.02 10:55:00 - [11] - Quote I just wouldnt kill anything... take out shields.... let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again.... = $$$$
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 31	Posted - 2013.07.02 11:30:00 - [12] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: I just wouldnt kill anything... take out shields.... let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again....let them rep....take out shields again.... = $$$$ Good point. CCP could implement either a cooldown (just like what they have done with the triage tool) or limit the ISK you can gain from one target so you have to switch targets to get this amount of money. But overall I like the idea +1
Django Quik R.I.f.t 788	Posted - 2013.07.02 13:16:00 - [13] - Quote Area denial is not in any way rewarded in this game, whether it's keeping a pesky HAV at bay or trapping a heavy in a corner somewhere. Simply giving isk (or WP/SP) for damaging anything (vehicles, suits, structures) is abusable and could potentially detract from the main focus of actually trying to get the kill. To be honest I don't have an answer to how to reward area denial but the suggestions so far are not sufficient - sorry.
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 66	Posted - 2013.07.02 14:44:00 - [14] - Quote Sorry, but why should we be rewarding AV players who tunnel vision a tank to get one swarm shot on it, not kill it, and die in the process? Get your assists when the thing dies just like the rest of us. It takes a lot more than one shot too to constitute area denial. I'm not saying you didn't perform a good service to your team in your game, but I'm just not seeing a compelling case made to start handing out points when things don't even die.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 236	Posted - 2013.07.02 17:19:00 - [15] - Quote Tankers support this 100%! We like money based on damage, too. How about 100k for every 10k damage?
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2013.07.02 17:39:00 - [16] - Quote You are payed based on the enemy gear that gets destroyed in the game. I would pay-out like this: When you kill something it's salvage value gets distributed via a formula. 50% of the value is permanently destroyed (this is to combat inflation), then 25% goes into the general ISK pool for the match. The total of the general pool gets divvied up among your teammates based on time in match as is currently implemented (this helps noobs make some ISK and keeps them coming back and also rewards the teammates who made the kill possible--through logistics for example). AFKers should be addressed and excluded from the pool as well, but that's a separate issue. The last 25% of the value of the vehicle/dropsuit destroyed gets carved up based on damage done to it since it was last at 100% health. So if merc A does a lot of damage and then it heals back to full he sees nothing. But if Merc A does 75% of the damage to the vehicle and Merc B finishes the thing off, then Merc A gets 18.75% of the value of the destroyed vehicle and Merc B gets 6.25% (i.e. 75%/25% split of the 25% share awarded to the people who did the killing). I hope that was clear. This avoids many of the problems of people destroying installations all day (including ones meant for their own team).
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 360	Posted - 2013.07.02 17:45:00 - [17] - Quote I woild say this could be solved by adding maby 50 wp for every1000 dammage inflicted on any vehicle/instalation this woild reward av and tankers alike as we all have some common targets that take a pounding for a measily 50wp.
Aizen Intiki Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 15	Posted - 2013.07.02 18:13:00 - [18] - Quote How do you think pilots feel when they lose their vehicles? They screwed for upwards to 5-7 matches if they wanna keep a profit.
Aizen Intiki Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 15	Posted - 2013.07.02 18:15:00 - [19] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Tankers support this 100%! We like money based on damage, too. How about 100k for every 10k damage? step 1: go on skirmish step 2: blow up 2 CRU's step 3: Don't lose your HAV step 4: gain over 2m ISK. I would enjoy that a lot lol Peace, Aizen
Xocoyol Zaraoul Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 523	Posted - 2013.07.02 19:29:00 - [20] - Quote Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: I fear you underestimate the stupidity of some tankers and AV guys Blowing up a CRU is stupid, I admit that, but blowing up Supply Depots if it is in the middle of enemy territory is smart for HAV pilots as those mean infinite AV.



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