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Scout suits, are they worth it or not.

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Sleepy Zan Sleepytime Gorilla Mercenaries 2312	Posted - 2013.06.29 18:42:00 - [1] - Quote I'd like to get your opinion are scouts dead or still useful. CCP seems to not want to buff them so my suggestion, since I view their worth as less then other suits, is to lower the cost and sp requirements. Seems fair to me.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 773	Posted - 2013.06.29 18:45:00 - [2] - Quote really depends on what you want to use them for - if you plan on ever going face to face against anyone, don't go scout. If you know the game well enough to be able to sneak up behind people or want to go sneaking around the back of the map to take the far objective behind enemy frontlines, go for it. edit - I don't think a cost/SP reduction is really required. They can still serve a purpose if that's the way you want to play. If it's not, go with a different suit.
Sleepy Zan Sleepytime Gorilla Mercenaries 2312	Posted - 2013.06.29 18:47:00 - [3] - Quote Django Quik wrote: really depends on what you want to use them for - if you plan on ever going face to face against anyone, don't go scout. If you know the game well enough to be able to sneak up behind people or want to go sneaking around the back of the map to take the far objective behind enemy frontlines, go for it. edit - I don't think a cost/SP reduction is really required. They can still serve a purpose if that's the way you want to play. If it's not, go with a different suit. Minmatar assault gets that job done just fine
The Knight Faust Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2013.06.29 19:21:00 - [4] - Quote Run speed mods and shield tank and depending on how good you are at running and jumping, Youll never die. Especially if your good with a shotgun or flaylock....or both! People cant hit half the scouts i hear about and they all run the same setup. Which is above.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4192	Posted - 2013.06.29 19:44:00 - [5] - Quote The way I look at it is that CCP likely won't be touching suit balance for quite some time, since they've come under so much flak for mechanical issues. As mechanical issues get fixed, hit detection and fps mechanics in general will improve. As that happens, scouts will only become more and more vulnerable. You're really good so you'll put up numbers no matter what, but maybe an Amarr logi, since you're a mean ass sniper? (I say amarr for the sidearm, I don't even know what logi bonuses are lol) +5% to armor rep efficiency, I guess it would depend on how much tank you can fit on that thing, or else it wouldn't matter since you'd just get counter sniped. I haven't seen you on the kill feed in a long time, you used to make me scared to go out in the open. Now we have sharks, I mean LAVS :/
Relyt R Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 62	Posted - 2013.06.29 19:48:00 - [6] - Quote I would say they don't really have a combat role anymore, whereas they used to be very effective at flanking and other such tactical positioning shenanigans, they just die too quickly now. Say you're running a flank on somebody, if 1 guy off in the distance who knows how to aim sees you, you're dead. In their current form lower isk/sp costs seems fair to me since they're like other suits but.... less.
N1ck Comeau Pro Hic Immortalis 540	Posted - 2013.06.29 19:53:00 - [7] - Quote From personal experience. You need to rely on dodging, weaving and anything that makes it so they can't hit you. Be aggressive but realise your weaknesses.
Sir Petersen Valhalla Nord 225	Posted - 2013.06.29 19:57:00 - [8] - Quote If you like to move around quickly then the scout suit is for you. The guys/gals using them with speed boosters in Skrimish matches are super important. Catch stations as fast as you can.
mollerz Minja Scouts 524	Posted - 2013.06.29 19:59:00 - [9] - Quote Shield tank? why bother. Damage tank. If you are all about indirectly hitting people, why buff your defenses for a frontal assault. You want to kill quick, quiet, and quickly move on. I wish the minja suit had one more low slot with a commiserate CPU/PG buff. As it is, I feel it is critical to survival that you load a complex kin cat/endurance mod in your low slots. It just doesn't leave a lot of tactical choice.
Marc Rime Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 94	Posted - 2013.06.29 20:20:00 - [10] - Quote Since scanning is broken (I assume it still is since I've not seen any mention of it getting fixed) I'd say scouts are a total waste of SP, might as well stick with lights (yeah, there's the knife bonus on minnie scouts, but all that SP for only one bonus?). ...not that I'll stick with lights -- IMO that frame size pretty useless now. Wish I'd taken the hint from the previous scout nerfs and switched to mediums already, might actually have had some fun in Uprising.

Surt gods end Demon Ronin 386	Posted - 2013.06.29 20:40:00 - [11] - Quote We are the last of the ninja cowboys. The scout is the master at being, well the scout. wow Yup. As defenseless and dangerous as a snake. The stealth OHK. The role bonus, adds to that. So when it comes to that stealth OHK. scouts has the sweet spot. EDIT: speaking of sweet spots.. Hi ladies.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 272	Posted - 2013.06.29 21:02:00 - [12] - Quote Grossly underpowered. Especially since the radar does not work (if it actually works as intended then I have no idea what CCP is thinking) - even with good SP in radar related skills my radar does not show medium suits that are right behind my back. Example: I can jump over a medium suit and miss my knifing chance, the second I land past them their dot is off my HUD. Also, stamina is very poor. These are just some of the things that I think are key and broken that are not brought up much. Other well known issues: 1. low HP. Minmatar can buff HP with shield extenders but does not have enough of the low slots for scout related modules: speed, stamina, radar. Gal scout can fit scout related modules but has no high slots to buff Hp just a bit. 2. CPU/PG. Does not make sense what so ever. In the suit that's supposed to be electronics oriented has the worst CPU/PG per slot available. Balancing FTW. If you want to play scout for the amusement factor: e.g. sneak up and OHK heavy with knife once a in a while, it's ok the scout still does that (though knifing mechanics are terrible); if you want to play competitively, don't go scout route - there is just no reason to, there is no niche for it. Lowering SP requirements makes no sense. Why would you want to spec into a garbage suit, just to spent more SP to spec out of it? If scout is to be fixed, it better get fixed. I don't see the reason to brand it with its utter inferiority but explicitly making it the cheap throw away.
First Prophet Jaguar Empire 207	Posted - 2013.06.29 21:57:00 - [13] - Quote Really not worth it. There's nothing scouts can do that medium frames can't do better. Only thing they're good for is capping the closest objective in the first few seconds of skirmish. No one uses scanners so don't worry about your scan profile. Want to silently grab an objective at the other end of the map? Just use a lav. They're as silent and stealthy as scouts are, but faster and have way more HP. Minmatar logis are the class with the hacking bonus anyway. Scouts are even the worst snipers. You get barely any module slots. Terrible HP. Terrible CPU/PG. All they get is a slightly better base sprint speed. Scouts just give up too much to be worth it.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 1392	Posted - 2013.06.29 22:00:00 - [14] - Quote They're dead.
KING CHECKMATE A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 136	Posted - 2013.06.29 22:04:00 - [15] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: I'd like to get your opinion are scouts dead or still useful. CCP seems to not want to buff them so my suggestion, since I view their worth as less then other suits, is to lower the cost and sp requirements. Seems fair to me. I run scout i'll tell you: Scout suits are UNDERPOWERED. You can do everything you do with scouts but better with assaults or even some logis. Unless you want to go Full Nova knifes , just stay assault or Logi bro. Want to use shotguns? Dude a Proto Minmatar Logi can do that easy at the cost of 1 sidearm, you'll get equipment slots, more total HP and more PG/CPU plus at poto level a defeault 5HP-s armor repair ....(Example, 2 complex kinetic catalizers, 1 complx profile dampener, 1 biotics green flask for stamina, 4 complex shields) Wanna go SNiper? just wait 4 days for the commando suit: 650 HP at lv5 passive shield and armor bonus and you can run a Sniper rifle and an ASSAULT rifle for IN battle sniping. At proto level, a single profile dampener can drop an assault or Logi suit down to 37,where a specialized SCOUT suit at level 4 has 37.5.... (So you are .5 sneakier XD) Except for nova knifes, i dont feel Scouts are needed.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 2071	Posted - 2013.06.29 22:13:00 - [16] - Quote Not.
Karazantor Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2013.06.29 22:56:00 - [17] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: I'd like to get your opinion are scouts dead or still useful. CCP seems to not want to buff them so my suggestion, since I view their worth as less then other suits, is to lower the cost and sp requirements. Seems fair to me. The only use scouts have now is stealthy sniping. There is nothing whatsoever else that a scout suit can do that can't be done better by something else. Being seen is as good as death. Running speed of Gal scouts is no better than an assault suit. Put the two together and you have the picture. Price simply doesn't enter into the equation when the suit is mostly useless. They don't need to be cheaper, they need to be useful, as in role specific bonuses in addition to what is there i.e. a special slot just for cloaking device and cpu use reduction for same that other suits don't get (a la EVE stealth bombers etc). My main still uses scout suits mostly as he is a sniper, and I still feel nostalgia for how much fun a fast, effective shotgun scout was in previous builds, but you have to accept that its not really much use.
vIO8 Venilen Eugenics Agency 29	Posted - 2013.06.29 23:36:00 - [18] - Quote The Knight Faust wrote: Run speed mods and shield tank and depending on how good you are at running and jumping, Youll never die. Especially if your good with a shotgun or flaylock....or both! People cant hit half the scouts i hear about and they all run the same setup. Which is above. This is not true! My scout build is a proto suite, complex sheild extenders and complex kincats. It has become the toon I play when messing around. It was my "main". The recent introduction of contact grenades mixed with the flaylock frustrated me. Normally I just troll snipers or run around with scissors for fun. The scout suits are light on CPU/PG and complex kincats/sheilds burn through it quick. You can run and jump all you want but if someone see you, its over. Its fun don't get me wrong but not really efficient at all. A Logi suite can do what I "do" but have a WAY higher survival factor, plus other perks. Plus the shotgun (IMO) is not reliable, many times you will put shells center mass and literally get nothing for damage in return. The "speed tank" scout is fun but not much "tank" IMO.
Zatara Rought TeamPlayers EoN. 364	Posted - 2013.06.29 23:44:00 - [19] - Quote I don't run them, but from what I know marauder and radar and sha use them competitively and do well enough to be valuable. The problem is movement speed got nerfed and this affects strafe speed along with the other bugs that are known to exist. They can be used to beast, but its not the easiest endeavor. They aren't any better than chromosome. They were never super useful in chromosome and people complained they were UP then as well. Honestly with the radar nerf for other classes, they have some potential once the bugs are fixed.
KING CHECKMATE A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 136	Posted - 2013.06.30 00:39:00 - [20] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: I don't run them, but from what I know marauder and radar and sha use them competitively and do well enough to be valuable. The problem is movement speed got nerfed and this affects strafe speed along with the other bugs that are known to exist. They can be used to beast, but its not the easiest endeavor. They aren't any better than chromosome. They were never super useful in chromosome and people complained they were UP then as well. Honestly with the radar nerf for other classes, they have some potential once the bugs are fixed. THEY ARE WORST than in chromosome. Proto Scouts had 6 slots total between 3 high and 3 slow. The speed was peak compared to the other suits and i use to run with 2 equipment slots. Now they are nerfed to cr*p CPU/PG output, 1 equipment slot and 5 dropsuit module slots While all assaults and Logis got buffed to infinity. So unless you are thinking on going super low Profile dampening sniper or Nova knives, there is not real reason to play scout.

Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 125	Posted - 2013.06.30 00:48:00 - [21] - Quote Was a scout suit user for most of my days in beta and though it is posssaible to use the scout suit as i did then the minmatar mediuim suits does more for with more options to create a variety of suits wheather speed ,armor,damage or shiled tanked.
D3LTA Blitzkrieg II 0uter.Heaven League of Infamy 13	Posted - 2013.06.30 01:04:00 - [22] - Quote scouts arent under-powered, minmatar at least, just ppl dont take time to flank and engage from the rear. also scouts make fer good saboteurs and lone hacking
Zatara Rought TeamPlayers EoN. 368	Posted - 2013.06.30 01:13:00 - [23] - Quote D3LTA Blitzkrieg II wrote: scouts arent under-powered, minmatar at least, just ppl dont take time to flank and engage from the rear. also scouts make fer good saboteurs and lone hacking Makes sense.
Morathi III Pro Hic Immortalis 107	Posted - 2013.06.30 01:36:00 - [24] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: I'd like to get your opinion are scouts dead or still useful. CCP seems to not want to buff them so my suggestion, since I view their worth as less then other suits, is to lower the cost and sp requirements. Seems fair to me. Usefull in pc, but you may rage in pub
loumanchew Ametat Security Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2013.06.30 01:49:00 - [25] - Quote Forget the scout. Play a logi they just have it all. Think of it like a healer in other games while having all the offensive capacity of the role of the DPS, while still having almost as much health as most tanks. With all the little gadgets that they have you will be farming SP faster than any other class and improve your progression to spec into other trees should you wish to. So there you have it...I know right? Oh and stay away from vehicules in general unless it's free. Welcome to new Eden!
KING CHECKMATE A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 137	Posted - 2013.06.30 02:00:00 - [26] - Quote D3LTA Blitzkrieg II wrote: scouts arent under-powered, minmatar at least, just ppl dont take time to flank and engage from the rear. also scouts make fer good saboteurs and lone hacking Lone hacking no, Minmatar Logi is the best for lone hacking. Enough slots to GREATLY increase speed and Profile Dampening, a default lvl 5 +25 Hacking speed and of course more HP. BTW , What do YOU play? Because Minmatar is NOT underpowered if you use Nova knives. THATS IT.
First Prophet Jaguar Empire 208	Posted - 2013.06.30 02:01:00 - [27] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: D3LTA Blitzkrieg II wrote: scouts arent under-powered, minmatar at least, just ppl dont take time to flank and engage from the rear. also scouts make fer good saboteurs and lone hacking Makes sense. Except that the minmatar logi is the class that gets the bonus to hacking speed. Minmatar logi also has a base sprint speed of 7.4 m/s which is only .5 m/s less than the Minmatar scout's base sprint of 7.9 m/s. The logi also gets the same two low slots the scout has so it can also run complex sprint mods if it wants, only the logi can run them easier with their higher CPU/PG. The logi also gets more equipment slots, modules, and base HP. Scout suits are just not useful.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 48	Posted - 2013.06.30 02:21:00 - [28] - Quote The Scout suit for me is about being different then others. I'll play different, but let me compete at least. We're like Nemo with the lil' fin.
KING CHECKMATE A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 138	Posted - 2013.06.30 04:33:00 - [29] - Quote Niuvo wrote: The Scout suit for me is about being different then others. I'll play different, but let me compete at least. We're like Nemo with the lil' fin. Handicapped?
Karazantor Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2013.06.30 04:59:00 - [30] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Niuvo wrote: The Scout suit for me is about being different then others. I'll play different, but let me compete at least. We're like Nemo with the lil' fin. Handicapped? Scout suits were great fun during Beta. They were cheap, fast and shotguns were powerful. Suits were nerfed - now little faster than assault suits, but you still die instantly 99% of the time Shotguns have been nerfed - no range and 50% of the time dodgy hit detection means even direct hits won't register. You can however bet the resulting blast of AR fire in response won't miss. The bonuses to Gal suits added to these problems mean they are only useful for snipers. The Minnie suits are a favourite for ninja knifers for obvious reasons. Some would argue that shotty scouts are still effective, however my experience would indicate that in 80+% of cases a AR Scout is actually more effective in cases pre uprising that there would have been no contest with the Shotty winning bar lag induced deaths. Shotty scouts can still be used, but only using Dragonfly or Militia (read cheap) suits, otherwise they are just a money drain and a Assault suit does it all better. IMO.



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