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Relyt R
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
59
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Posted - 2013.06.29 17:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have played this game for a year. Back then the game was horridly broken, and a mess. But it was fun. I've been a scout suit since I began in this game. For the longest time, scouts had both advantages, and disadvantages. I miss killing tanks with my shotgun.
Scouts used to be effective in cqc, able to kill heavies at point blank due to their high strafe speed. That got nerfed. All hit detection/aiming used to be terrible, now longer ranged aiming works reasonably well, but close range aiming is still horrible. Everything else got buffed, short range specialties did not, an indirect nerf.
Scouts have significantly lower base stats than every other class except in 2 categories, speed and shield recharge. Neither of these are of much use when common weapons on the battlefield either 2-3 shot a scout suit, or have splash damage, or both. Most other suits can be fitted to be faster than a scout, with much more hp, making the actual skilling into a scout a poor decision, as those sp could be better used elsewhere.
As it stands, the scout is more or less forced to be only a non-combat support role or a sniper, or do what many of my fellow scouts do and just troll snipers. If an enemy looks angrily in our direction, we die. It seems very wrong to me that the scout suit has bonuses to scanning, but scanning has also been nerfed into the ground.
We scouts have been hit hard by nerf after nerf, when will the days of the scout being an effective and useful combat suit come again? When will scouts have a place?
I might catch some flak for this but a light frame with access to a covops cloaking device which makes you invisible until you fire (with some sort of cooldown) seems perfectly balanced, as it just might help us get off 1 good shot, which is all we can hope for since we die immediately afterwards.
Other ideas to make scout and light frames useful and worth skilling into would be appreciated, but we really do need something, we're a slowly dying breed.
TL;DR: Another "Scouts are UP" thread. |
Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
82
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Posted - 2013.06.29 17:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree, i tried every possible tactic with a scout suit, and the only one that is effective, is at the start of the battle;
- Speed skills, hacking module / skills, and up-links... rush like an idiot - hack as many things as possible - drop an up-link - and die..after that forget about the scout suit for the rest of the match.
It seems pointless to spend lots of SP on it, considering that you can do all that with the Basic versions. |
Khal V'Rani
Nephilim Initiative
137
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Posted - 2013.06.29 17:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Banning Hammer wrote:I agree, i tried every possible tactic with a scout suit, and the only one that is effective, is at the start of the battle;
- Speed skills, hacking module / skills, and up-links... rush like an idiot - hack as many things as possible - drop an up-link - and die..after that forget about the scout suit for the rest of the match.
It seems pointless to spend lots of SP on it, considering that you can do all that with the Basic versions.
^ This is fairly accurate for me as well.
Though I do use a scout suit for speed and stealth to sneak behind and drop uplinks and hack
things every so often... Not that blueberries take advantage of the effort or anything... |
Onesimus Tarsus
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
539
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Posted - 2013.06.29 17:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Banning Hammer wrote:I agree, i tried every possible tactic with a scout suit, and the only one that is effective, is at the start of the battle;
- Speed skills, hacking module / skills, and up-links... rush like an idiot - hack as many things as possible - drop an up-link - and die..after that forget about the scout suit for the rest of the match.
It seems pointless to spend lots of SP on it, considering that you can do all that with the Basic versions.
And it doesn't help that uplinks glow like fireworks from a mile out.
By the way, I third this thread. Agree on all points. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4187
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Posted - 2013.06.29 17:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Was going to go Shotgun scout in Uprising, saw scout stats....
Went dropship pilot thinking no way could they be so flimsy at top level....
Respec
I have joined the Dark Side
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Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
140
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Posted - 2013.06.29 18:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Banning Hammer wrote:I agree, i tried every possible tactic with a scout suit ...
Hi Banning Hammer,
In light of your advocacy in recent "Scouts Need a Buff" threads, I figure you are more likely than not a fellow scout. I've added you as a contact in game, in order to include you in the Scout Registry:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=991523#post991523
Strangely, you're stats appear as all zeros in my Leaderboards. Is it possible that you Ban Hammered me? 
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Sleepy Zan
Sleepytime Gorilla Mercenaries
2312
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Posted - 2013.06.29 18:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
I donated my scout suit to salvation army |
EternalRMG CM
Eir Gaming
0
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Posted - 2013.06.29 18:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:I donated my scout suit to salvation army
You still playing? I Though tha you had been baned and planned on never returning |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
479
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Posted - 2013.06.29 18:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Some of the best players in LOI run scout suits.
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Cat Merc
Oculus Felis
1273
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Posted - 2013.06.29 18:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
You know why you found it fun?
Because scouts were OP.
Sure, you had less health, but what does it matter if your speed + hit detection = you can't be hit ever?
Anyone with half a brain knows to keep moving, and the scouts were just impossible to hit.
I'm not saying scouts are fine, no no no no, they are really bad right now.
But I'm saying that those people who think the Heavy and the Scout at the old days were balanced are gravely mistaken. |
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The Knight Faust
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.06.29 19:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Some of the best players in LOI run scout suits.
The only way in hell scouts should get ANY Buffs is when the hitboxes are fixed.
There are too many scout suits out there now that can take damage like a heavy because the way there moving/speed mods and Shield Tanking and you can barley scratch them.
At least nobody said logi suits needed to be buffed. |
Relyt R
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
62
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Posted - 2013.06.29 19:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:You know why you found it fun?
Because scouts were OP.
Sure, you had less health, but what does it matter if your speed + hit detection = you can't be hit ever?
Anyone with half a brain knows to keep moving, and the scouts were just impossible to hit.
I'm not saying scouts are fine, no no no no, they are really bad right now.
But I'm saying that those people who think the Heavy and the Scout at the old days were balanced are gravely mistaken.
I can't disagree that they were OP at one point, but it used to be a mechanic that was even talked about by devs that scouts could speed tank a heavy, that's gone now. |
mollerz
Minja Scouts
524
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Posted - 2013.06.29 19:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
First of all... as a scout, you just have to expect to die. I consider a personal victory when my match K/D is in the black. Then I forget about it.
Probably the reason I like playing a scout the most is the fun i have in lone wolf tactics. I love disrupting the back lines while the front lines are busy. I also enjoy having to think on my feet while fighting far stronger enemies in CQC.
In the Minja Scout club room we always brag about killing heavies and shotgunners. We don't even mention other kills. We have a huge wall of the scalps of our prey that we've nailed up there when we get back on our ship.
We're going to need a bigger wall soon. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
2055
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Posted - 2013.06.30 18:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Unfortunately, I cannot approve your suggested fix. All classes that have an equipment slot should have access to the cloaking device.
The light frame is trash. Minmitar Assault is the only functional "scout" at the moment. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
5495
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 18:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
I seriously think the cloaking device needs to be hand held instead and a drain on stamina and not a cortex based ability. |
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
315
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Posted - 2013.06.30 19:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I seriously think the cloaking device needs to be hand held instead and a drain on stamina and not a cortex based ability.
Is that what it is now? Interesting concept |
Ghost Kaisar
Intrepidus XI
Omega Commission
3
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Posted - 2013.06.30 19:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
The main problem with the current scout is the fact that they have made it's specialization worthless. Everything a scout can do, an assault or logi can do as well, and with much better eHP.
It is kinda aggravating that scout sacrifices tons of eHP to only be about .5-.9 m/s faster on the sprint and only .5 m/s faster on a walk.
I think that the suits would follow this trend: The sprint speed of the previous suit is the walk speed of the following.
For example the heavy suit's sprint is 5.0 m/s. That would make the medium suits walk speed 5.0 m/s. Then because a mediums suit sprint is 7.0 m/s, the scout would have a walk speed of 7.0 m/s. Before you start screaming about how insanely fast scouts would be, realize that a PROTO scout still only has roughly 300 eHP. That is your BASIC Assaults eHP. We still die if we can't get away in time, no doubts about it.
Also, if they don't give us a speed buff, I would then insist on an eHP buff. Why? Because without that speed, we need the extra eHP to survive those extra shots we will take while trying to get away.
If they fix the scanning ranges, I am sure scouts will be more useful. With more and more people using the mini-map to detect enemies, having someone that can go under the radar will be very useful in matches. We are supposed to be fast and hard to detect, allowing us to slip behind enemy lines and wreak havoc. Right now, so long as you stay 10m away from your enemies and you aren't seen, ANYONE can sneak behind enemy lines. Scouts can just do it faster.
mollerz wrote:First of all... as a scout, you just have to expect to die.
Yeah, scouts are the adrenaline junkie's suit. I personally love the fact that you feel like you are flying by the seat of your pants during intense CQC. |
Asher Night
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
190
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Posted - 2013.06.30 20:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Particularly the Gallente Scout sucks. The proto suit LOSES a high powered slot (why?), and the bonuses for it's suit are just stupid. |
DeadlyAztec11
Max-Pain-inc
606
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 20:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I seriously think the cloaking device needs to be hand held instead and a drain on stamina and not a cortex based ability. Is that what it is now? Interesting concept
No, that's what he thinks it should be, he's right though. |
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
317
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 20:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Sinboto Simmons wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I seriously think the cloaking device needs to be hand held instead and a drain on stamina and not a cortex based ability. Is that what it is now? Interesting concept No, that's what he thinks it should be, he's right though.
Oh...
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
5502
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Posted - 2013.06.30 20:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP did express the desire for 'super abilities' but the thing is activation of them would require the 'cortex' so a menu selection.
Cloaking, Jump Jet and few other types of abilities imo should not be menu accessed but on demand special purpose.
For example Jump Jets activated by holding down the jump button.
Now there is design room for such abilities, for example a 'siege mode.' activate it and walk out of cover and become nearly unstoppable bullet sponge but slow and unable to move too well. |
mollerz
Minja Scouts
532
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Posted - 2013.06.30 20:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:mollerz wrote:First of all... as a scout, you just have to expect to die. Yeah, scouts are the adrenaline junkie's suit. I personally love the fact that you feel like you are flying by the seat of your pants during intense CQC.
yea. it's a balance between hilariously wicked fun and frustratingly horrible game play.
Been meaning to send you an invite. will do next time i boot up. |
J0LLY R0G3R
Shadow Company HQ
29
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Posted - 2013.06.30 22:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Just started using a scout on my alt when I got the respec. Been having a crazy amount of fun jumping around people. Of all the suits I've tried this lil guy is the most fun to play on. |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
143
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Posted - 2013.06.30 23:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CCP did express the desire for 'super abilities'
Exciting! This would suggest that the Devs have acknowledged a problem with Scout balance or role. Fingers crossed :-)
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Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
143
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Posted - 2013.06.30 23:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
J0LLY R0G3R wrote:Just started using a scout on my alt when I got the respec. Been having a crazy amount of fun jumping around people. Of all the suits I've tried this lil guy is the most fun to play on.
Lots of fun and huge potential, but not currently viable at a competitive level ... yet ;-) |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
5510
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 23:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CCP did express the desire for 'super abilities' Exciting! This would suggest that the Devs have acknowledged a problem. Fingers crossed.
Not a problem but more of a design growth. |
Cody Sietz
Tritan's Onslaught
RISE of LEGION
268
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Posted - 2013.07.01 00:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Scouts only seem to work with high DMG weapons like the shotgun and flaylock (for me at least) |
Relyt R
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
68
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Posted - 2013.07.01 06:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Scouts only seem to work with high DMG weapons like the shotgun and flaylock (for me at least)
Indeed, surprise is their only hope, and with any weapon that isn't a instakill or close to it, surprise at best evens the playing field. |
Hexen Trickster
Industrial removal service
34
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Posted - 2013.07.01 06:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
Just an idea but why not make a scout role thats basically the same as the stealth bomber
A scout suit that can field heavy weapons. Itl have a great advantage over a tank and tbh would be funny to watch a scout run at me with a HMG
But for the love of god dont do scouts + heavy weapons + cloaks. Thats just to much.
Introducing scout only mods is the best way (other than speed) to buff the scouts. Why not base them more on EvE frigs. A equipment mod that functions like a small area aoe web to slow enemys. Ewar like sensor dampeners that lower the range at which you can see enemys or ECM that produces fake targets on the enemys screen. Shield dampening field that prevents shield recharge in a area (kinds like a neut) and target painting which increases damage done to the pained target.
Anyway thats my few ideas that are probally badly thought out. |
Relyt R
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
69
|
Posted - 2013.07.01 06:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
Hexen Trickster wrote:Just an idea but why not make a scout role thats basically the same as the stealth bomber
A scout suit that can field heavy weapons. Itl have a great advantage over a tank and tbh would be funny to watch a scout run at me with a HMG
But for the love of god dont do scouts + heavy weapons + cloaks. Thats just to much.
Introducing scout only mods is the best way (other than speed) to buff the scouts. Why not base them more on EvE frigs. A equipment mod that functions like a small area aoe web to slow enemys. Ewar like sensor dampeners that lower the range at which you can see enemys or ECM that produces fake targets on the enemys screen. Shield dampening field that prevents shield recharge in a area (kinds like a neut) and target painting which increases damage done to the pained target.
Anyway thats my few ideas that are probally badly thought out.
The ECM idea would be very, very hard to balance, but man would it be fun. I could see the ECM at it's very highest level making 2 copies of you that disappear when shot, but you'd have to somehow make multiple ECM modules not just blow up the poor guy's FOV with enemies. Or maybe that should be ok, I dunno. |
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