DUST Search - An elegant solution to many problems

Vyzion Eyri wrote:

Daedric Lothar wrote:

That is a serious wall of fixes and having to scroll down then back up then down then back up... sucks.

But some of these ideas look good, some I don't like so much.

Alright,

1. I like unlocking gear, it gives me something to work towards, however I like how BF did it better. you unlock the guns one way then you can keep unlocking more stuff or start unlocking stuff for the gun in question. It was still a grind, but I always felt I was earning something.

2. See Above

3. I like this, however I still see the cap is useful for now. I would like to see skills more fragmentary so instead of having like 10-15 mandatory skills to boost your character, there are only about 5-10 mandatory skills and the rest are just specializations. Then I would be cool with removing the skillcap.

4. Ugh, no. Let people be jack of all trades.

Isk 1. No, no no no. I don't want to pay $200,000 just for the proto suit. You are talking about a full proto layout costing $3M. that is psychotic for 1 death. At the very most I would want to see a full proto-layout costing $1M.

Skill books are already psychotically expensive, no need to make them more so.

--- Stop trying to limit protogear! Yes, you get killed by Protobears, but they should be there. This isn't fallout where getting a suit of power armor should be extremely difficult. There are easier ways to shelter newbies frm protobears, like just having different mission payouts, Have like "Extreme Danger" which pays like 200isk/WP and have like Guard duty which pays like 50isk/WP. So that way all the protobears go to the danger missions and all the newbies go to the Guard Duty Missions and either of them CAN choose the other if they like, No limitation.

I apologise for the confusing layout; I was never one for structure.

The feeling that you're working towards something will still be present, except now you're working for ISK instead of SP. This means you'll have to be even more careful with it, since when you die you lose ISK. This isn't so for SP.

People run prototype gear in pubs currently because they want to. Changing contract payouts won't change the fact that people will still enter low-payout contracts with protogear just to stomp. Raising the cost of prototype gear, on the other hand, means not only will it be extremely difficult to purchase it like you've noticed, but also that DUST becomes an ISK sink for EVE, with the capsuleers bolstering the corporation wallet for players to purchase prototype gear.

And besides, I'm not saying that we're reliant on EVE too much, either. PC battles should provide payouts that exceed costs of even prototype gear. Which means if you run militia gear in PC and win, you're probably gaining a bloody hefty sum of money.

However, I agree with your suggestion that we have mandatory 'core' skills. I was thinking we should remove those.

Forlorn Destrier wrote:

No.

Anything else you might like to add?

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Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 776	Posted - 2013.06.27 12:28:00 - [1] - Quote Problems being brought up on these forums: 1. P2W (applies to boosters, fused locus nades, etc.) 2. SP gap 3. Pubstomping due to SP gap 4. Pubstomping due to bad matchmaking (if any) 5. Respeccing and whether or not CCP needs to constantly supply respecs or allow it through AUR 6. Respeccing as new content is released 7. SP itself, and the debate over how the cap should work. 8. SP and how it will pan out over 10 years 9. Dwindling player base 10. Forum pessimism 11. 'burnout' due to grinding 12. No incentive to play PC 13. Immersion And the solution: Disclaimer: this solution is intended to solve all listed problems, however some wild speculation may have occurred in the consideration of how the solution applies to each problem. (Slightly changed from an older thread) 1. Skills do not unlock any items. 1.1. All items are already unlocked. 2. Skills simply upgrades the efficacy of an item. 2.1. Skill 'tree' system remains, except skills focus on efficacy and unlock nothing. 2.2. Each item (or at least each item variant) has its own set of efficacy skills. For example, a triage repair tool would have a skill to upgrade triage repair, whereas vehicle repair tools have a skill which boosts vehicle/installation repair. 2.3. There should be no skills that affect militia-grade items. 3. Passive SP gain is doubled, Active SP gain is reduced to how much WP a player earns, but cap is removed. 4. To ensure specialisation is still considered, multipliers are applied like so: All skill multipliers initially are 1x. When a player reaches level 4 in a skills which apply to one weapon, the multipliers for every other weapon are raised to 2x. When a player reaches level 4 in two skills which apply to one weapon, the multipliers for every other weapon are raised to 3x, and the skills which apply to that weapon is raised to 2x. When a player reaches level 5 in two skill which applies to one weapon, multipliers for every other weapon are raised to 5x. This increase in multipliers can be applied to every category of items in-game, and can be as specific or broad as we wish. ie. in the above example, multipliers may only apply to light weapons if you're upgrading a light weapon's skills, and won't increase sidearm weapons' multipliers. Change to the ISK system to support changes to SP 1. Costs of items must change Militia gear value remains the same. Standard gear value should be doubled. Advanced gear value should be ten times that of standard gear, And prototype gear ten times that of advanced gear. This includes modules, vehicles, etc. Everything. Cost of skill books should become at least 10 times more expensive. 1.1 If eventually, EVE players manufacture our items, then the materials required must have a total value which is equivalent to those stated above. 1.2 All items should have militia variants 2. Payouts should make it difficult to purchase high-end items from simply playing instant battles Instant Battle payouts should give profit when playing with militia gear, and small profit if playing well with standard. If you use advanced gear in pubs, dying once or twice shouldn't be profitable no matter how well you do. And with prototype gear, dying once should set you back a few games. The cost of prototype gear should be so extreme that only PC battles can allow a mercenary to break even, even after dying 7-10 times. 2.1. Not sure how ISK payouts are calculated now, but it seems to reflect the performance of an individual. i.e. most WP = most ISK earned. This should remain how it is. 3. Allowing new players to thrive WITHOUT boxing them into a Battle Academy. Until a player purchases 10 million ISK worth of standard (or greater) gear, militia gear should be provided to a player free of charge. _________________ Discussion welcome. I haven't explained how the solution solves the listed problems. Hopefully those problems will be the basis of any rebuttal of my solution by you guys, and hence by answering your rebuttal I will be applying the solution to the given problem.
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 740	Posted - 2013.06.27 12:33:00 - [2] - Quote That is a serious wall of fixes and having to scroll down then back up then down then back up... sucks. But some of these ideas look good, some I don't like so much. (Writing More)
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster 1021	Posted - 2013.06.27 12:59:00 - [3] - Quote No.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 776	Posted - 2013.06.27 22:35:00 - [4] - Quote Daedric Lothar wrote: That is a serious wall of fixes and having to scroll down then back up then down then back up... sucks. But some of these ideas look good, some I don't like so much. Alright, 1. I like unlocking gear, it gives me something to work towards, however I like how BF did it better. you unlock the guns one way then you can keep unlocking more stuff or start unlocking stuff for the gun in question. It was still a grind, but I always felt I was earning something. 2. See Above 3. I like this, however I still see the cap is useful for now. I would like to see skills more fragmentary so instead of having like 10-15 mandatory skills to boost your character, there are only about 5-10 mandatory skills and the rest are just specializations. Then I would be cool with removing the skillcap. 4. Ugh, no. Let people be jack of all trades. Isk 1. No, no no no. I don't want to pay $200,000 just for the proto suit. You are talking about a full proto layout costing $3M. that is psychotic for 1 death. At the very most I would want to see a full proto-layout costing $1M. Skill books are already psychotically expensive, no need to make them more so. --- Stop trying to limit protogear! Yes, you get killed by Protobears, but they should be there. This isn't fallout where getting a suit of power armor should be extremely difficult. There are easier ways to shelter newbies frm protobears, like just having different mission payouts, Have like "Extreme Danger" which pays like 200isk/WP and have like Guard duty which pays like 50isk/WP. So that way all the protobears go to the danger missions and all the newbies go to the Guard Duty Missions and either of them CAN choose the other if they like, No limitation. I apologise for the confusing layout; I was never one for structure. The feeling that you're working towards something will still be present, except now you're working for ISK instead of SP. This means you'll have to be even more careful with it, since when you die you lose ISK. This isn't so for SP. People run prototype gear in pubs currently because they want to. Changing contract payouts won't change the fact that people will still enter low-payout contracts with protogear just to stomp. Raising the cost of prototype gear, on the other hand, means not only will it be extremely difficult to purchase it like you've noticed, but also that DUST becomes an ISK sink for EVE, with the capsuleers bolstering the corporation wallet for players to purchase prototype gear. And besides, I'm not saying that we're reliant on EVE too much, either. PC battles should provide payouts that exceed costs of even prototype gear. Which means if you run militia gear in PC and win, you're probably gaining a bloody hefty sum of money. However, I agree with your suggestion that we have mandatory 'core' skills. I was thinking we should remove those. Forlorn Destrier wrote: No. Anything else you might like to add?
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster 1031	Posted - 2013.06.27 22:50:00 - [5] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Daedric Lothar wrote: That is a serious wall of fixes and having to scroll down then back up then down then back up... sucks. But some of these ideas look good, some I don't like so much. Alright, 1. I like unlocking gear, it gives me something to work towards, however I like how BF did it better. you unlock the guns one way then you can keep unlocking more stuff or start unlocking stuff for the gun in question. It was still a grind, but I always felt I was earning something. 2. See Above 3. I like this, however I still see the cap is useful for now. I would like to see skills more fragmentary so instead of having like 10-15 mandatory skills to boost your character, there are only about 5-10 mandatory skills and the rest are just specializations. Then I would be cool with removing the skillcap. 4. Ugh, no. Let people be jack of all trades. Isk 1. No, no no no. I don't want to pay $200,000 just for the proto suit. You are talking about a full proto layout costing $3M. that is psychotic for 1 death. At the very most I would want to see a full proto-layout costing $1M. Skill books are already psychotically expensive, no need to make them more so. --- Stop trying to limit protogear! Yes, you get killed by Protobears, but they should be there. This isn't fallout where getting a suit of power armor should be extremely difficult. There are easier ways to shelter newbies frm protobears, like just having different mission payouts, Have like "Extreme Danger" which pays like 200isk/WP and have like Guard duty which pays like 50isk/WP. So that way all the protobears go to the danger missions and all the newbies go to the Guard Duty Missions and either of them CAN choose the other if they like, No limitation. I apologise for the confusing layout; I was never one for structure. The feeling that you're working towards something will still be present, except now you're working for ISK instead of SP. This means you'll have to be even more careful with it, since when you die you lose ISK. This isn't so for SP. People run prototype gear in pubs currently because they want to. Changing contract payouts won't change the fact that people will still enter low-payout contracts with protogear just to stomp. Raising the cost of prototype gear, on the other hand, means not only will it be extremely difficult to purchase it like you've noticed, but also that DUST becomes an ISK sink for EVE, with the capsuleers bolstering the corporation wallet for players to purchase prototype gear. And besides, I'm not saying that we're reliant on EVE too much, either. PC battles should provide payouts that exceed costs of even prototype gear. Which means if you run militia gear in PC and win, you're probably gaining a bloody hefty sum of money. However, I agree with your suggestion that we have mandatory 'core' skills. I was thinking we should remove those. Forlorn Destrier wrote: No. Anything else you might like to add? Nothing to add, I just don't like the ideas.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 524	Posted - 2013.06.27 23:18:00 - [6] - Quote I like the ideas. The high cost essentially force the game to be ABOUT isk, instead of SP. No. The "Protobears" do NOT need to be there. They are hunting noobs into extinction. I am part of this problem. I am fully in agreement with an enormous price jack on protogear in order to discourage it's use. However, I would also like a significant performance increase on proto to accompany this. If you risk the isk, you should get the bang for your buck. The gear being open for everyone to purchase and use is plenty reasonable. A noob won't have to grind himself to death to actually USE the gun, but if he uses it, and likes it, he will decide to improve on it. I would like to add that the loss of high-end proto gear, should number into the 10s of millions between a team in PC. The victors should get the isk amount/gear they destroyed, to make PC matches even more worth it.
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 757	Posted - 2013.06.28 11:57:00 - [7] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: ... People run prototype gear in pubs currently because they want to. Changing contract payouts won't change the fact that people will still enter low-payout contracts with protogear just to stomp..... And besides, I'm not saying that we're reliant on EVE too much, either. PC battles should provide payouts that exceed costs of even prototype gear. Which means if you run militia gear in PC and win, you're probably gaining a bloody hefty sum of money. Anything else you might like to add? Based on your assumption above the proto players stomp pubs because they just want to stomp pubs. Then you say that PC battles should give you a hefty sum of money. So now you have Large corporations that only send their best players to play PC, and these players are the ONLY players who can get protogear, and now they are going to enter Pubs in the spare time with their newfound protogear and pub stomp newbies because they can, and since they are the only ones who can afford the gear. There is nothing anyone can do about it.. My logic is that people wear protogear because they like wearing their best, they pub stomp because that is the only thing for them. People quit because the game is no challenge or to hard. Protoplayers quit because the game is to easy, Newbie quit because they are getting stomped. So instead, have tiers that you can "Choose" and adjust to payouts to make people "Want" to choose them. If I get 3,000 WP a match and can make $600,000 a match, I will chose that rather then only making $150,000, unless the $600k match is to difficult, in which it would be for newbies, thereby making the $150,000 mission more attractive. Protoplayers players and squads now play other protoplayers and squads for big money, newbies play each other for the smaller money and less competition. The world is in harmony. At least thats my theory.
XV1 Ninth Legion Freelance 31	Posted - 2013.06.28 15:33:00 - [8] - Quote They could also just make a matchmaking system based on SP/ISK amounts. Sounds reasonable.


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