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Severus Smith
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
234
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Posted - 2013.06.27 05:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Full Proposal PDF: DUST - Planetary Conquest.pdf
Current Planetary Conquest System - Very repetitive - Too much waiting for a single match - Requires A-Squads only - No different than instant battles - Cost prohibitive for attacking / defending
Proposed Revised Planetary Conquest System (Below) - Feels like an actual invasion - Multiple / variable match types - Faster paced - Timers make sense and have reasons - Requires A, B and C Squads - Still works for small corps - Big rewards for winning matches
Here is the process of attacking a District under the proposed new systemGǪ
Step 1: Put Warbarge in orbit over target District To attack a district you pay 100,000,000 ISK for a Warbarge with 1000 clones (Your paying for the clones - Warbarges are free, they're magic)
- Select District to attack - Pay 100,000,000 ISK for clones - Commence Attack
Your Warbarge is now en-route and will arrive in orbit over the District in 1 hour. (Would be cool if you could see it in EVE)
Step 2: Attack the Shield Relays Each District is protected by 1 - 7 Shield Relays (depends on configuration, explained later). These need to be destroyed. While these are up you cannot call in Orbital Bombardments. You can have up to 2 simultaneous battles at one time.
- Select a Shield Relay to attack (80 clones) - Commence Attack
A battle is now queued and will begin within the hour.
Step 3: Destroy the Shield Relays (DUST Battle) To destroy a Relay you need to destroy its two generators with remote explosives (or other munitions). Each generator is protected by a shield that must be hacked. Destroying all the generators ends the match. Running out of clones ends the match. Generator destruction doesnGÇÖt persist between matches (they have speedy repair drones!).
- Hack Relay Console - Defend Console until hack completes - Destroy Generator with remote explosives, vehicles, or other nefarious means - Repeat until both generators are destroyed
Once you succeed in destroying all of the Shield Relays protecting the District will enter Emergency Reinforcement mode for 24 hours. During this time it cannot be attacked and it will not fire on your Warbarge.
Step 4: Attack the Main District / Skyfire Batteries / Defense Grids When the District exits Emergency Reinforcement mode 24 hours later it will be unshielded. While it is unshielded it does not produce anything / gain passive ISK. You can either attack the Main District, the Skyfire Batteries protecting it, or the Defense Grids reinforcing it. Your goal is to obtain 100 GÇ£control pointsGÇ¥ (better term needed). Each victory gains you points and each loss loses you points.
- Attacking the Main District will gain you control points based on the match type.
- Skyfire Battery / Defense Grid = 10 points each
- 8 man Ambush = 15
- 16 man Ambush = 20
- Skirmish and Domination = 25
- Destroying a Skyfire Batteries gains you 10 points and will stop it from firing at your Warbarge. If your Warbarge sustains enough damage it will be destroyed; ending your attack and you losing you any clones remaining inside it. A District can have 1 - 4 Skyfire Batteries (depending on configuration). These do not fire while the District is in Reinforced mode. To destroy a battery you must destroy its two generators (just like the Shield Relays).
- 1 battery will destroy your WarbargeGÇÖs in 24 hours
- 2 batteries = 12 hours
- 3 batteries = 6 hours
- 4 batteries = 3 hours
- Attacking the Defense Grids gains you 10 control points and will stop its Daily Reinforcement cycle from occurring. This cycle stops all attacks from occurring but also disables the Skyfire Batteries. Destroying a generator can greatly help if the District you are attacking is in a different time zone. To destroy a generator you must destroy its five generators (just like the Shield Relays).
- 1 generator = 8 hour cycle
- 2 generators = 16 hour cycle
You will need to choose where and how you are attacking.
- Select your Attack Type
- 8 man Ambush (80 clones)
- 16 man Ambush (120 clones)
- Skirmish / Domination (160 clones)
- Skyfire Battery (120 clones)
- Defense Grid (120 clones)
- Commence Attack - Repeat until you gain 100 control points
You can have up to 2 battles queued. The defender can have up to 2 battles against you queued (for a total of 4 queued battles at one time).
Step 5: Attack the District Control Center This is it. Get your MCC to the control tower (Skirmish 1.0 style) and the District is yours. If you fail you lose 30 control points.
- Attack the District Control Tower (240 clones) - Commence Attack - Win
Taking the District Control Center gives you control of the District. You inherit all the modules (that you didnGÇÖt already destroy) and any clones remaining in the DistrictGÇÖs coffers and your Warbarge. Your Warbarge will stay in orbit for 24 hours to provide you with cover (District cannot be attacked) while you configure your new DistrictGÇÖs modules. After 24 hours your Warbarge will warp out and your new District is open to be attacked. |
Severus Smith
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
234
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Posted - 2013.06.27 05:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
District Configuration
As mentioned above a District can be configured. Each District has 6 slots and 600 power (similar to Rig slots in EVE) in which to place modules. Each module uses power.
- Shield Relay (100 power): Must be destroyed by enemy to bring down District shields. - Skyfire Battery (200 power): Fires on the enemy Warbarge. - Defense Grid (300 power): Reinforces the District for 8 hours every day. (This module is for Corps who donGÇÖt have coverage during certain timezones. It ensures they cannot be attacked during that 8 hour window)
There are basically 7 combinations:
- Defense Grid (x2) - Defense Grid + Skyfire Battery +Shield Relay - Defense Grid + Shield Relay (x2) - Skyfire Battery (x3) - Skyfire Battery (x2) + Shield Relay (x2) - Skyfire Battery + Shield Relay (x4) - Shield Relay (x6)
Each combination offers a corp different things; 2x Defense Grids limit attacks to a single timezone, 3x Skyfire batteries will force enemy Warbarges out of orbit in 3 hours, and 6x Shield Relays offer a large buffer your enemy must overcome to unshield your district (which stops passive ISK / production).
By default each District has 1x Shield Relay and 1x Skyfire battery. The modules above are in addition to these.
Clone Pricing
Clones cost ISK. Attackers and Defenders can buy more clones at any time in packs of 100. For an attacker 100 clones is 12,500,000 ISK. For a defender 100 clones is 7,500,000 ISK. When a clone is destroyed in battle it is worth 50,000 ISK to the victor in biomass payout. Attackers get a discount when initiating an attack (1000 clones for 100,000,000 ISK).
(Please view the final page of the PDF here for cost calculations)
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Severus Smith
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
234
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Posted - 2013.06.27 05:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Wow... You obviously put a LOT of thought into this. I actually love this, as it plays toward some of the same ideas I've stated in my own threads on the topic. I like the idea of the War Barge purchase being part of the invasion, and the shorter timer structure. The only issue I could see is again running into the issue of time zones. Even if you still give an hour's warning of an attack, it doesn't do anything if the entire Corporation that owns it is asleep for the night, and if the game starts requiring players to recruit globally just to avoid getting steamrolled while they're in bed, we're going to be seeing a lot more angry people than we are now. The 24-hour timer thing is a real killer, but I just don't see a way to avoid time-zone wars otherwise. Thanks for the feedback, I have put a lot of time into this, probably too much. This is revision 7 of the proposal.
As for timezones, they are a problem. In EVE they're solved (somewhat) with a 24 hour reinforcement timer. So I tried to do the same thing here. I also added the Defense Grids to give corps other options besides recruiting globally. The proposal isn't perfect, so if you have a better idea for solving the timezone problem please share it. My wife and I have argued for hours about the timers (she's invested a lot of time in this proposal as well). I just don't think 1 match a day is the solution.
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Severus Smith
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
241
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Posted - 2013.06.27 17:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
I've reposted it in General Discussion. And I have no problem with people reposting it to keep it popular, just throw a link to mine if you can. Thanks for all the amazing feedback. I'm at work typing this on a phone right now, so when I get home later I'll post some full length replied to the questions y'all have posed. |
Severus Smith
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
258
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Posted - 2013.06.27 23:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
I just updated the OP to version 2. The revisions were based on everyone's feedback.
DUST - Planetary Conquest v2.pdf |
Severus Smith
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
258
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Posted - 2013.06.27 23:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Interesting idea, I really like the amount of thought that goes into it, but I have questions/ concerns. Some are hard to articulate.
Are all these battles located on one district? If so, it would mean all that stuff will be going on on one map.
The shield relays are protecting the district, so shouldn't it be on the districts surrounding the one you're attacking? Or are the shield relays on the targeted district, but only shielding the outpost (or "city") and other important sites? I ask because its hard to get inside a district and fight on it if there is a huge shield around the entire thing preventing you from even getting in. I imagine the redline could be greatly expanded so a district could have lots of gameplay areas for the initial shield relay parts outside of the outpost part of the map. While I think it would be awesome to have multiple battles occurring simultaneously in the same District, for ease of implementation I think everything should be serial (one after the other). So there would never be two battles occurring at the same time in a single District.
As for the Relays, I envision them as structures on the edge of the District. TheyGÇÖre powerful enough to keep big objects, like MCCGÇÖs, out (as well as Orbital bombardments). However, small things like infantry and jeeps can pass through them. You have to take them down to push further into the District.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:EDIT 2: Seems like a lot of work just to take one district, I think such long campaigns should be reserved for districts with an Surface Command Center (something CCP mentioned, very important, 1 per planet). Perhaps the amount of points to conquer a regular district, and the amount of clones the attackers buy at a time to bring should be lower. I agree, and actually have posted a revision to my original proposal to fix this. Each District would now have 3 Shield Relays, and the control points needed were reduced to 50. This means that you could take a District in 6 battles (assuming you won them all).
3x Shield Relay Battles 2x Skirmish Battles (25 points each) 1x Escort Skirmish 1.0 Battle
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Severus Smith
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
258
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Posted - 2013.06.28 00:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Severus Smith wrote: As for timezones, they are a problem. In EVE they're solved (somewhat) with a 24 hour reinforcement timer. So I tried to do the same thing here. I also added the Defense Grids to give corps other options besides recruiting globally. The proposal isn't perfect, so if you have a better idea for solving the timezone problem please share it. My wife and I have argued for hours about the timers (she's invested a lot of time in this proposal as well). I just don't think 1 match a day is the solution.
For Timezones, I like the Defense grid suggestion. I think its elegant and subtle and it works. You get a 8-10 hour window where you cannot be attacked. And if you are a really small corp you can fit 2 of them into each district slot and get 16-20 hours of invulnerability and only have to defend during your peak time, but you don't get any of the other perks. I thought the Defense Grids were an elegant solution to Timezones. However, to make things simpler I dropped the GÇ£customizationGÇ¥ part of my proposal in the above revision. Each District would now have one Defense Grid which reinforces it for 16 hours. Basically, instead of you choosing the one hour youGÇÖre open to be attacked (current system) you choose the 8 hours you are open to be attacked (my proposal). |
Severus Smith
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
263
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Posted - 2013.07.01 17:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I still love the idea OP has mysteriously vanished.... Kidnapped by CCP to fix PC maybe? Really sorry, really sick...
Will reply once I am no longer loopy on medication.
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Severus Smith
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
263
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Posted - 2013.07.02 17:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Severus Smith wrote:Quote:Revisions (To make implementation easier) - All Districts now have 3x Shield Relays, 1x Skyfire Battery, and 1x Defense Grid (no customizing at this time) - Skyfire Batteries will destroy enemy Warbarges in 12 hours. - Defense Grids reinforce your District for 16 hours. - Skyfire Batteries and Defense Grids are not attackable (at this time) - You need 50 control points to end GǣPhase 2Gǥ - Revisions means an Attacker can take a District in 6 battles. (3x Shield Relays, 2x Skirmishes, 1x Escort Skirmish 1.0) Here is the process of attacking a District under the proposed new systemGǪ If the district could be configured just like a suit, it wouldn't be complicated at all, just sounds complicated on paper. It would be very intuitive in the UI, and when you attack the district, you could get a little popup map that makes it more intuitive for the attacker as well. You worked hard on your idea, keep it. Thinking about it (Your idea, not mine), if we wanted to do battle types based on what you have placed. Shield Relay battles could be like Skirmish, so you have multiple control points you have to hack. Except without the MCC (You don't want it to get blown up to easily in the first match of six, unless your warbarge comes with a like 6 pack of them, which would be cool), This battle should be your standard/default battle. Skyfire battery battles could be like a kind of the hill type where you have to capture multiple points to capture the Skyfire battery. If you hold all 3 points, you win. Maybe.. This battle should be chosen by attackers or defenders if one or the other team has alot of EVE support and you want to shoot them. The Defense Grid could be a straight up Domination match, whoever controls it wins. This battle would be chosen to fight outside of the normal attackable hours if the district battle wasn't won straight up in the first round of matches. Problem is it would be complicated for CCP to implement. Not so complicated that it could never happen, but it would require a decent amount of changes and if they aren't already working on it now we wouldn't see it until Winter at the earliest. We need something sooner than that. So by dropping the configurations the system becomes far easier to implement. They already have most of the other pieces; it would just be organizing them all and getting them to talk.
Later they could roll out configurations. But the system does not need them to function. That is why I removed them from the proposal.
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Severus Smith
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
341
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Posted - 2013.09.18 19:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thanks, I am happy this thread was revived. I would love to see this too, hence why I wrote it up. :) |
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Severus Smith
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
371
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Posted - 2013.10.11 16:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:How did I miss this amazing thread? It's completely unacceptable that this thread isn't blue tagged by True Grit. OP you've done a stellar job at revamping PC. Thanks for all the compliments everyone! I log in every day and am always amazed when I see new notifications of people liking / replying to this thread. I always expect it to die, but it just keeps coming back and the support from everyone is very amazing. Special thanks to KAGEHOSHI who keeps bumping this thread; really appreciate it.
TechMechMeds wrote:Seems pretty damn good but what needs fixing is the lag and player boots, people locking their districts and corps incapable of ever fielding a full team paying to have battles won for them so they can aimlessly farm isk.
Right now pc is irrelevant, no one wants to take part because of this weak behaviour. PC needs a lot of work and thats why I wrote this up. I think that by offering multiple battles for a District and removing the 24 hour timer mechanic could revitalize PC a bit. Right now huge groups like EoN (congrats to them, they're doing great, no insults meant) can defend WAY to much space. And that's because the 1 match every 24 hours lets them setup their timers to allow one team to defend 20+ districts. That shouldn't be possible. Having the possibility of being attacked within an 8 hour window, possibly multiple times on the same District, limits power projection. One team can't defend 20+ Districts, heck they can't even defend one District well if the attacker is determined enough (due to the possibility of 2-3 simultaneous attacks). That means large groups need to have good discipline, scheduling, and strategy to take a lot of area. And it also means that a small corp can hold a District or two and hold out.
That would make PC (and FW) more interesting. |
Severus Smith
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
391
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Posted - 2013.10.16 22:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Severus Smith wrote:District Configuration
As mentioned above a District can be configured. Each District has modules that defend / support it.
- 3x Shield Relay: These must be destroyed in Phase 1 to bring down the DistrictGÇÖs shields. - 1x Skyfire Battery: Fires at the enemy Warbarge, will destroy it after 12 hours of firing. Does not fire when the District is in reinforced mode. - 1x Defense Grid: Reinforces the District for a 16 hour block every day. District owner chooses the 16 hour block their District will be vulnerable during. This accommodates for timezones.
Future: Having configurable module loadouts for the Districts would be nice. So that Corps with more timezone coverage could swap Defense Grids for more Shield Relays, and such.
If districts would be customizable like you described, the defense grids probably should defend the district for an 8 hour block instead of 16. That way, having more than 1 defense grid couldn't protect a district for 32hrs a day; with an 8 hour block per defense grid, it would would be OK to have 2 defense grids or swap one out for something else and be vulnerable for 16hrs a day instead of 24. Yeah, in the original proposal (Version 1) they were customizable with 8 hour timers for the Grids. However I went through and simplified it (Version 2) and changed it to one Grid with a 16 hour timer.
Terry Webber wrote:Your proposed PC system is very well thought out. However, I don't think having ambush and skirmish/domination would fit. It would be better to go straight to skirmish 1.0 after the district exits emergency reinforcement mode. I think there needs to be some variety. Skirmish over and over and over again is boring. Maybe the points they offer need to be reduced (not by much) but I think they need to be there to add variety. |
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