DUST Search - [Feedback] End to the Coward's Defense

CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:

Kain Spero wrote:

CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:

the only argument to that zdub is matches are scheduled ahead of time. This allows corps time to set up personnel ensure availability etc.

Having an option to attack 30min later....right after a match will not work out well I don't think.

Ppl get on for wars and often log off after. Not everyone is like us nolifers and I don't think its wise to force people to be on longer than they want.

Scheduling the mass attack using the current tim ing system I think has greater potentail to appeal to everyone. Otherwise its will come down to corp A taking even greater advantage of the timers and availability of corp B than it already is

Actually, I think that the ability to attack immediately actually is better for those that want to get on and get off rather than fighting the same hour 2 to 3+ days in a row. Often times a lot of time gets put into to preparing for a battle as well and with the current mechanics all of that preparation has to be repeated for several days in a row.

O I agree this could be a cool option. I thought zdub was suggesting corp a wins and right THEN would get to choose for the immediate reup 10m later...

Im just saying this should be scheduled ahead of time, or at the very least require confirmation from both sides before the attack is allowed to go through on such short notice.

Im all for anything that brings back any of the old socom feel... wars best 2 of 3 maps but that was literally a single room with the 3 maps. 1st map over, back 2 lobby for 5min countdown then straight into next map etc.

For PC I think the skirmish 1.0 setup could be utilized for attacking a district in 1 go... at least from what I've heard about 1.0


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ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 481	Posted - 2013.06.25 21:34:00 - [1] - Quote This is what I posted in the CCP PC Feedback thread... I think it could really work. Attacker Wins: Allow a couple options for when an attacker wins their first PC battle on a district: 1. Option for a follow up attack in 10-30m. Follow up attacks would use the same clones that you already have on the district from the first attack, incentivizing the use of more than 150 clones per attack. You can follow up attack a maximum of 2 more times (and claim a district immediately). 2. Option to reinforce attack. This leaves the current amount of clones on the district attacking, and allows you to send more to reinforce for another attack tomorrow. 3. Option to withdraw from attacking. This sells off the clones and unlocks the district to be attacked by someone else tomorrow. Defender Wins: 1. There should be an option to place a 3 day lock out timer on the district with reduced clone production. First night produces no clones, second and third night reinforces with 40% clone production. There is a slight penalty for doing this but allows defenders to take a break if they need it. 2. no lockout, 100% clone reinforcement immediately. (This is what happens now.) Same 1 hour timer to make a decision, if timer expires then we default to Option 3 for attackers and Option 2 for defenders.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 483	Posted - 2013.06.25 22:02:00 - [2] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Pretty spot on. I'm not sure about a 3 day lock, but I do like the fact that you reduce production for increased defense. For option 3 for the attacker winning I would say return the clones to the district they came from unless it was a gen pack attack. In that case they get sold off. I do like the reinforce idea you put forward in Option 2. It makes sense that the clones are parked on the district and you reup the side of the attack. The only change I would make is that I really think that if you take a huge numbers hit in your first attack and drop below 150 clones you don't get access to Option 1. Yeah the numbers can always be tweaked, and I do like returning the clones to district... but do you pay travel costs both ways? Regardless, its the core idea that matters... I think the winners of each battle need more options... and the ability to reup would be huge and some sort of lockout so defenders can take a breather.. if not 3 days.. maybe down to 2 days with 40% per day or something. It can just get wearing have to defend 4-5-6 times in a row... I really wanna say no to the minimum clone count for reup but you are probably right... no need to waste everyone's time on a halfhearted attack. However.. there is another thing to consider.. if clones aren't being sold off every battle.. then there are no individual payouts. I think a record of each battle, with all of the participants.. where directors of a corp can individually issue a contract payout to reimburse each player would be necessary. It also adds a new layer of complexity to economic warfare, as corps would have to fulfill the contracts themselves (which makes sense cause its player generated content!) and if their members don't get paid...
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 490	Posted - 2013.06.26 11:57:00 - [3] - Quote CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: Kain Spero wrote: CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: the only argument to that zdub is matches are scheduled ahead of time. This allows corps time to set up personnel ensure availability etc. Having an option to attack 30min later....right after a match will not work out well I don't think. Ppl get on for wars and often log off after. Not everyone is like us nolifers and I don't think its wise to force people to be on longer than they want. Scheduling the mass attack using the current tim ing system I think has greater potentail to appeal to everyone. Otherwise its will come down to corp A taking even greater advantage of the timers and availability of corp B than it already is Actually, I think that the ability to attack immediately actually is better for those that want to get on and get off rather than fighting the same hour 2 to 3+ days in a row. Often times a lot of time gets put into to preparing for a battle as well and with the current mechanics all of that preparation has to be repeated for several days in a row. O I agree this could be a cool option. I thought zdub was suggesting corp a wins and right THEN would get to choose for the immediate reup 10m later... Im just saying this should be scheduled ahead of time, or at the very least require confirmation from both sides before the attack is allowed to go through on such short notice. Im all for anything that brings back any of the old socom feel... wars best 2 of 3 maps but that was literally a single room with the 3 maps. 1st map over, back 2 lobby for 5min countdown then straight into next map etc. For PC I think the skirmish 1.0 setup could be utilized for attacking a district in 1 go... at least from what I've heard about 1.0 Yeah, that is exactly what I meant. If the attacker wins, they can choose to attack again. They only have say... 10m to decide to attack again and then war barge time etc... This allows you to press the advantage while you're winning, it also functions to let you take the district immediately if they no show. Otherwise its 2-3 days... Period... And with my schedule at least... I can't show up every night like that. I usually have 1-2 nights free that I could play for several hours but I can't log in every night at the same hour like PC demands now.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 490	Posted - 2013.06.26 11:59:00 - [4] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: 3. Option to withdraw from attacking. This sells off the clones and unlocks the district to be attacked by someone else tomorrow. IMO, This sounds like a 'retreat' option. In the case of a 'retreat', I think the defenders should get the attackers' clones that they leave behind. Or maybe a portion of them. I dunno. Yeah... But this is an option that happens when the attackers win. I get what you're saying but I'm not sure i like that defenders are rewarded for attackers winning. If they did it should be very little.. Like 10%.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 490	Posted - 2013.06.26 12:54:00 - [5] - Quote zapfrog wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: PC is a unique monster to tackle. I don't usually participate in PC but I will give my opinion anyways. I agree that the problem is burn out do to routine and lack of players. I would like to see a battle that lasts hours or even days with changing front lines. To me a 15 minute battle is too quick and only encourages the use of top players. If the battles lasted all day and allowed us to advance towards a main goal as we capture smaller points then we could use more of our corp mates and any awoxing would have a lesser effect on outcome. Skirmish 1.0 is a good start but there should be more objectives over a larger area. It would also allow for more tactics and better use of dropships. The biggest problem is the burn out rate due to overuse and poor mechanics. I like this idea a lot. Honestly the burnout, PC lagging issues and odd defend/attack times have left a lot of players out in the cold. Can't tell you how many times the attack/defend times are just impossible to get people on. It would almost be like a smaller, timed version of PS2. Which the open world Idea of PS2 is awesome... most people's grips about that game are that overnight everything you worked for is undone. If it was PS2 in... 3-4 hour chunks with lockout until you can continue to press the attack the next day... could be best of both worlds. Its true though, I think 99% of the problem with PC burnout is that its just the skirmish game mode and we're all sick and tired of playing skirmish.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 491	Posted - 2013.06.26 16:14:00 - [6] - Quote Daedric Lothar wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Maybe the solution there is to limit the lockout to the corporation that did the attack. This could help alleviate dummy corps being used to lock down a district. On the grief option to reduce clone production that why Zdubbs suggestion that it be an option to lockdown the district at reduced clone production makes sense. If you want to be free from attacks after a victorious defense you have an associated cost. If you are ready to defend again then go for full clone production, but be open to attack. That seems legit. if clone production is VERY limited when a district is locked up, then that can stop exploiting. Maybe possibly limiting the transfer of clones to and from that district so they cannot lock themselves and keep resupplying from other districts, I can see this possibly being an issue when there is a integrated economy and clones can be bought and sold in EVE. I would hate to see them lock themselves only to just keep fully resupplying their clone counts to be very hard to kill. Example: If down the road, a maxed out district can hold like 600 clones, then you would have to win 4 fights against them. If they lose 3 in a row but win the 4th, they could lock the district for 3 days, resupply themselves and then you have to win 4 in a row to take it from them. My suggestion was to lock the district... meaning no clones in or out and reduced clone production as the price for electing to go for the lockdown. Its just a way to give defenders a breather. That's exactly right though. Here is an example scenario: Corp A attacks Corp B, sends 300 clones and corp B has 450 clones defending. Corp A wins, loses 100 clones. Corp A now has 200 clones, Corp B has 300 Clone - attackers elect to continue the attack. They have 10 minutes to decide and attack starts 30m after first attack finishes to give everyone a smoke break and stragize, swap out ringers etc. Battle #2 commences, Corp A wins again and only loses 40 clones. Corp A now has 160 clones, Corp B has 150 Clones They choose to reup again Corp B wins Battle 3 and loses 50 clones. They choose to take a reprieve. Corp A can now reinforce the district, they sent 190 clones. Corp A now has 200 clones, and in 3 days Corp B will have 160 (lets say production is 60 instead of 80 for taking the repieve) etc etc. It makes the situation much more dynamic.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 492	Posted - 2013.06.26 21:43:00 - [7] - Quote Daedric Lothar wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: My suggestion was to lock the district... meaning no clones in or out and reduced clone production as the price for electing to go for the lockdown. Its just a way to give defenders a breather. ..... Corp A now has 200 clones, and in 3 days Corp B will have 160 (lets say production is 60 instead of 80 for taking the repieve) etc etc. It makes the situation much more dynamic. I like this, its like being surrounded, a siege of the planet. However. Doesn't this mean the attacker would ALWAYS win as long as the attacker kept applying money to the equation? When would the defender resupply clones? Revelations 514 wrote: You could just allow a half-hearted attack, and the clone count would be irrelevant. Anyways, just an idea I thought I would throw out there. This is exploitable, Defender could use fake corps to lock a district at the cost of only a few clones. In the current system, as long as you continue to attack day after day the defender cannot resupply clones. So nothing really changes in that respect. If you win, as a defender.. you can continue to get 80-100 clones for clone production each day, same as always. Technically right now, if you continue to attack and the defender wins each time but loses more than 80 or 100 clones, they will eventually lose. That's no different than it works currently. Let me clarify, no matter who wins.. the loser will always lose 150 clones.. which is why you can't be allowed to reup your attack at less than 150 with a system like this, and minimum amount to attack is 150 clones already iirc isnt it? So alt corp attacking will be just as exploitable in this new system as it is currently.. and I don't know anyone who is spending 150 clones per day right now locking their own district. So it would function very similar as it does now, just with a few more options for attackers and defenders. edit: Unless you mean alt attacks with the 3 day lockout... hm.. I don't know good point. that could be exploitable... I don't know...