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Jathniel
G I A N T
EoN.
534
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Posted - 2013.06.29 18:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:Snipers should not get any love until the redline/MCC sniping issue is fixed. You should not be able to shoot at people who have no feasible way of shooting back aside from sniping. If I have to drive/walk across the entire map to hunt you down and gut you like a fish, I should have that luxury. Redline sniping isn't an issue. They can be sniped, as you already mention. They can be forge gunned, shot with turrets, dropships, HAVs, etc. Please pick up something other than your AR. I'm specced into ARs, Shotguns, Swarm Launchers, SMGs, and grenades, most level V but some only at advanced, thank you. That being said, redline sniping is certainly an issue. Imaginary lines on the battlefield should not keep you safe. I totally respect snipers who go out of their way to put themselves on a tower with a dropship or sneak across the battlefield to snipe from the enemy's side. A sniper's ability should be determined by his accuracy but more importantly his cleverness to put himself where no one would expect. Redlines completely put this to waste because the frightened little snipers know full well that big, bad Mr. AR can't come and get them in fear of spontaneously combusting behind the redline. Forge guns, turrets, dropships, and HAVs are hardly counters to redline snipers. You may see these things kill a sniper every now and then, but even then it's probably just some militia fit sniper who doesn't know what he's doing or where the 'good' redline spots are. The only surefire way to kill a redline sniper is with another sniper, and that does not justify a counter. The redline is currently one of the most immersion-breaking things in the game right now, and people like you love to utilize it because you can't seem to be clever enough to put yourself where Mr. AR can't get to you otherwise.
Imaginary redlines do not keep snipers safe.
Imaginary redlines are there to prevent a team's position from being totally compromised and circumvented, and this is necessary since we're not in an open world.
You should add sniper rifles to your nice list of weapons that you're specced into. Use them, and you'll see very quickly why snipers prefer to be outside of AR range. The argument that snipers need to fight at closer ranges out of some sort of false sense of honor or respect (or even "balance") is moot.
The weapon is balanced for use at ranges that just happen to often be in the redline. You won't see smart snipers fighting at closer ranges until sniper rifles are as easy to aim and use as ARs.
@OP:
I made a thread recently, about using the weapon sights already in game, and allowing us to swap and switch those. No response thus far.
The rendering problem would not be an issue for variable zoom scopes. Currently the game simply loads in objects if your vision is close enough to see them. I see this difference easily using an Ishukone SR vs. a Thale's.
A variable zoom scope would be very simple to implement.
Idk why we don't have these things yet, but i'm not going to speculate. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
EoN.
540
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Posted - 2013.06.30 06:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Jathniel wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:Snipers should not get any love until the redline/MCC sniping issue is fixed. You should not be able to shoot at people who have no feasible way of shooting back aside from sniping. If I have to drive/walk across the entire map to hunt you down and gut you like a fish, I should have that luxury. Redline sniping isn't an issue. They can be sniped, as you already mention. They can be forge gunned, shot with turrets, dropships, HAVs, etc. Please pick up something other than your AR. I'm specced into ARs, Shotguns, Swarm Launchers, SMGs, and grenades, most level V but some only at advanced, thank you. That being said, redline sniping is certainly an issue. Imaginary lines on the battlefield should not keep you safe. I totally respect snipers who go out of their way to put themselves on a tower with a dropship or sneak across the battlefield to snipe from the enemy's side. A sniper's ability should be determined by his accuracy but more importantly his cleverness to put himself where no one would expect. Redlines completely put this to waste because the frightened little snipers know full well that big, bad Mr. AR can't come and get them in fear of spontaneously combusting behind the redline. Forge guns, turrets, dropships, and HAVs are hardly counters to redline snipers. You may see these things kill a sniper every now and then, but even then it's probably just some militia fit sniper who doesn't know what he's doing or where the 'good' redline spots are. The only surefire way to kill a redline sniper is with another sniper, and that does not justify a counter. The redline is currently one of the most immersion-breaking things in the game right now, and people like you love to utilize it because you can't seem to be clever enough to put yourself where Mr. AR can't get to you otherwise. Imaginary redlines do not keep snipers safe. Imaginary redlines are there to prevent a team's position from being totally compromised and circumvented, and this is necessary since we're not in an open world. You should add sniper rifles to your nice list of weapons that you're specced into. Use them, and you'll see very quickly why snipers prefer to be outside of AR range. The argument that snipers need to fight at closer ranges out of some sort of false sense of honor or respect (or even "balance") is moot. The weapon is balanced for use at ranges that just happen to often be in the redline. You won't see smart snipers fighting at closer ranges until sniper rifles are as easy to aim and use as ARs. @OP: I made a thread recently, about using the weapon sights already in game, and allowing us to swap and switch those. No response thus far. The rendering problem would not be an issue for variable zoom scopes. Currently the game simply loads in objects if your vision is close enough to see them. I see this difference easily using an Ishukone SR vs. a Thale's. A variable zoom scope would be very simple to implement. Idk why we don't have these things yet, but i'm not going to speculate. The argument was hardly about urging snipers to fight at closer ranges; it seems you completely misunderstood. The argument is that sniper's abuse a game mechanic that is supposed to do what you described, while at the same time is used instead to keep enemies at bay because a little imaginary line prevents me from getting to the sniper and killing him. I can understand keeping a redline where people can spawn in safety and move out of to fight, but they should in no way be able to fight FROM the redline. The sniper's are part of the battlefield: they should be just as much in danger as everyone else, albeit a bit less because of range. The redline should in no way encompass huge vantage points like mountains (ex: the area under the MCC on the northern side of Manus Peak) for sniper's to sit in and take pot shots at people while being safe from harm's way. Do you really think sitting in an area where you can kill people at will while no one can get to you because they would suicide if they tried is fair and balanced? I would gladly take an AR nerf if it meant I could walk up that mountain and shoot you in the head with it.
if you think snipers are "safe from harm's way" because of the redline, you haven't played long enough. Okay, I'll throw your words back at you:
" Do you really think suicidally fighting with a weapon with comical levels of sway in an area where people can kill you EASILY is fair and balanced?"
The problem is clearly that you refuse to adapt, and insist and wanting to kill a redline sniper with an AR.
Won't happen.
In fact, no good sniper is going to let himself get caught by any regular hand weapon if he can help it.
The redzone IS meant to be FOUGHT FROM... without THAT the game will break... ESPECIALLY for snipers.
Play a sniper. See for yourself, and you will never make a fuss about it again. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
EoN.
540
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 07:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:I would just like to point out I have trekked well into the redline specifically to kill snipers with a shotgun blast to the back of the head, and made it out without spontaneously combusting.
On topic, I would much rather have scopes that Sgt Buttscratch described. I'm sick of how homogeneous snipers are, as the only viable tactic as of yet entails them only sitting at a nice, secluded, and distant vantage point (redzone, building) and snipe. I tried out sniping at closer ranges (~80m) and, well, I never did it again...
This^
It's not like the sniper rifle beats the ARs dps. (Unless, we're talking Thale's)
What is there to fear from them being used at mid-range?
They have small clips, shoot slower than their AR and SCR counterparts.
Let us change the sight, and use them at mid-range.
Otherwise, fk the world. I'm going to keep sniping from the most obscure positions I can get. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
EoN.
544
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Posted - 2013.06.30 17:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
2100 Angels wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:I would just like to point out I have trekked well into the redline specifically to kill snipers with a shotgun blast to the back of the head, and made it out without spontaneously combusting.
On topic, I would much rather have scopes that Sgt Buttscratch described. I'm sick of how homogeneous snipers are, as the only viable tactic as of yet entails them only sitting at a nice, secluded, and distant vantage point (redzone, building) and snipe. I tried out sniping at closer ranges (~80m) and, well, I never did it again... Not that I'm opposed to positive changes to the sniper rifle and its scope, but I'd just like to point out that sitting on a hill in a nice secluded area is not the only "viable tactic", and I would encourage you to try other styles of gameplay. Granted it takes more practice to become effective at closer ranges, but It's far from impossible. My most common range is 100-200m in an ambush, and due to my lack of SP in sidearm skills I find myself often using the SR <50m relatively effectively. Don't mistake this as advocacy for being a "run and gun" sniper, because I'ts not - that isn't what the role is; but there are much more effective ways of playing than "sitting at a nice, secluded, and distant vantage point". Otherwise, I'm 100% a supporter for variable zoom scopes, however I wouldn't hold my breath until the modular (tech 3?) weapons are released in the "distant future" (see fanfest videos for roadmap on these). Jathniel wrote:Otherwise, fk the world. I'm going to keep sniping from the most obscure positions I can get. does this mean you've taken up sniping again? Haven't seen you in-game in a while! 
Well, said.
Fighting at closer ranges is possible.
Fighting at closer ranges effectively depends on how we utilize the terrain. Often times, the best spot is the most obvious spot, because it's the one spot people getting sniped never look. Distant and obscure isn't the only option.
I just wish I could put a proper scope on for those rare close range engagements.
But yes, I received a respec, and went back into sniping 100%. Even better than before... It feels just as good as sniping in the Precursor build. Open maps, Precursor level redzones, and weapon damage. (and the nice buff to the Charge sniper).
I'm loving it man. |
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