DUST Search - My Thoughts on 'balancing' the "OP Logi"

zBroadway wrote:

Jastad wrote:

Colonel Killar wrote:

What was the Assault Bonus?

2% Hybrid weap reload.

With this change we have and ASS with bonus (but with less slot, that make it a little less gamebreaking ) and a Logi that reload faster with His only weapon.

I really dont think its the bonuses that make the caldari logi unfair...i mean they are definitely the best bonuses out of all the suits, in my opinion. I kinda think that its the amount of High and low slots that make it OP. Yea not having a side arm definitely sucksss. And 3 equipment slots is nice..but at most I use 2 (nanohives and uplinks..both lvl1 because id rather use up my cpu/pg on other things since i play the assault role out of the logi suit)..normally I only use 1 of the 3 available equipment slots.

Dont get me wrong..i agree that the caldari logi is OP...and something should be done to balance it out a little bit since it is exploited by a lot of assault guys, including myself. But i dont think it is OP for those people who choose to play true support logi role with that suit...they would have proto nano, proto uplinks..proto repair hive..ect ect.. All of which take up a ton of pg/cpu, thus not leaving them a whole lot left for complex extenders, regulators, damage mods..ect ect. Which, in my opinion...makes it a balanced suit for a true support logi. Like i said..it is exploited and used differently then CCP imagined it would be..cant argue that...a dropsuit sp refund should be available for those who did choose to skill into it..regardless of how you outfit the suit or play the game.

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Nicholas Silverton Red Star. EoN. 7	Posted - 2013.06.25 18:57:00 - [31] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Jin Robot wrote: Nothing personal man, I have long wished logis would be logis, that is all. I want a support role, not a half assault, half support. I just want a pure support role. I thought there was an assault suit already. Whatever man enjoy. Nothing is stopping you from doing that...... Pick a logi, fit him with the BEST all PROTO equipment you can, then fit as many codebreakers, and precision enhancers that you want. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is stopping you from running 100% support. Hell, you could even run mass drivers and that there would be 100%. Just because the Suits CAN go half and half, doesn't mean they CANT go full support. Its all about the playstyle you want to play, and I just don't think I should be forced out of my playstyle, because you think your playstyle is the only one a logistics suit should cover...... go figure huh? In this game you are supposed to be rewarded for skilling very specifically, so the fact that you can use a specialized SUPPORT suit as an ASSAULT suit makes no sense. However you are right about some people wanting to go half and half and that is what the basic frame should be for.
Konohamaru Sarutobi Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission 436	Posted - 2013.06.25 19:07:00 - [32] - Quote Nicholas Silverton wrote: I say just leave CCP to it. Eventually every weapon, dropsuit and equipment will have been hit with the almighty nerf hammer, leaving the game completely balanced lol. Also, going with FOTM is entirely your fault unless you genuinely like that playstyle I.e. actually supporting the team in a logi suit. "Eventually". Yes, "eventually" all the game will be fixed, but "eventually" I will be playing in my Play Station 9, or making food for my childrends.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1557	Posted - 2013.06.25 21:38:00 - [33] - Quote Wasnt bothered to read trough the whole topic posts. But one thing is for sure: the only logi thats OP is caldari logi so stop trying to nerf the other suits. Gallante logis can be 1 hit killed with core locus grenades, amarr is just a joke and i barely see minmatarr logis for a reason that is unknown. Probs because its just a damn ugly suit.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 755	Posted - 2013.06.25 21:45:00 - [34] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Wasnt bothered to read trough the whole topic posts. But one thing is for sure: the only logi thats OP is caldari logi so stop trying to nerf the other suits. Gallante logis can be 1 hit killed with core locus grenades, amarr is just a joke and i barely see minmatarr logis for a reason that is unknown. Probs because its just a damn ugly suit. Most suits can be be OHKd with a core locus grenade.
zBroadway Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 26	Posted - 2013.06.25 21:57:00 - [35] - Quote I feel like nerfing a dropsuit is much different than nerfing a weapon. Choosing a specific dropsuit and grinding to get the proto is SUCH a skill point investment...as opposed to a weapon that you can get the prototype variant in a week with boosters and a little bit of grinding. I didnt get a respec so ive got the basic medium frame proto suit along with the caldari logi proto suit which is 3,731,040 sp of my current 13.6 mil sp. Which is a little more than 25& of my total sp. as opposed to 621,000 sp it takes to get a light weapon to lvl 5...which is like less than 5% of my total sp. If they are going to nerf any type of dropsuit...i think they should offer a skill respec for those players who have those suits considering the drastic amount of sp they have spent obtaining the prototype variant of it. If they nerfed a weapon I used..id just suck it up because in the grand scheme of things..its not THAT much sp for a player like myself who has a good amount of sp.
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 32	Posted - 2013.06.25 22:13:00 - [36] - Quote zBroadway wrote: CUT. You're right Broadway The only Logi who need to be look at, and the only that will suffer from it are the CODboys that choose him for his bonus. So no respecc for them. If ALL the logi take a change, a respecc is necessary, but we cant nerf ALL logi, it's MADNESS. I use an Amarr logi and people asking "logiNerf" should tell me HOW am i OP. The answer is simple, switch the bonus from ASS to LOGI and then you have your fix.
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 35	Posted - 2013.06.25 22:14:00 - [37] - Quote Jastad wrote: zBroadway wrote: CUT. You're right Broadway The only Logi who need to be look at, and the only that will suffer from it are the CODboys that choose him for his bonus. So no respecc for them. If ALL the logi take a change, a respecc is necessary, but we cant nerf ALL logi, it's MADNESS. I use an Amarr logi and people asking "logiNerf" should tell me HOW am i OP. The answer is simple, switch the bonus from ASS to LOGI and then you have your fix. What was the Assault Bonus?
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 32	Posted - 2013.06.25 22:18:00 - [38] - Quote Colonel Killar wrote: What was the Assault Bonus? 2% Hybrid weap reload. With this change we have and ASS with bonus (but with less slot, that make it a little less gamebreaking ) and a Logi that reload faster with His only weapon.
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 35	Posted - 2013.06.25 22:26:00 - [39] - Quote Jastad wrote: Colonel Killar wrote: What was the Assault Bonus? 2% Hybrid weap reload. With this change we have and ASS with bonus (but with less slot, that make it a little less gamebreaking ) and a Logi that reload faster with His only weapon. Was that the general bounus or racial bounus?
zBroadway Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 26	Posted - 2013.06.25 22:32:00 - [40] - Quote Jastad wrote: zBroadway wrote: CUT. You're right Broadway The only Logi who need to be look at, and the only that will suffer from it are the CODboys that choose him for his bonus. So no respecc for them. If ALL the logi take a change, a respecc is necessary, but we cant nerf ALL logi, it's MADNESS. I use an Amarr logi and people asking "logiNerf" should tell me HOW am i OP. The answer is simple, switch the bonus from ASS to LOGI and then you have your fix. I dont mind if they switch be bonuses from the caldari logi to the caldari assault...BUT if the whole point of speccing into a racial suit is for the different slot layouts + the racial bonuses that come with them...and one of those two are drastically changed/nerfed then I feel like a respecc is warrented. If CCP decided to nerf any racial suit..whether it be a heavy, scout, logi, or assault...i would be in total support of those individuals who have the proto variants of those suits being granted a respecc...or better yet, a refund of the sp they dumped into drop suits...similar to the refund they gave players when they tweaked the multiplier for the dropsuits. Im sorry..i didnt think of that before..and that should have been my original suggestion..a total skill respecc isnt needed. Answer this question honestly..Lets say the Amarr logi was hypothetically OP like the caldari logi is...and CCP decided to nerf and/or switch the bonuses to that suit like your suggesting they do to the caldari logi..would you not want a refund on all the sp you spent on that dropsuit?

Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 776	Posted - 2013.06.25 22:41:00 - [41] - Quote Isn't nerfing what appears to be overpowered creating an outcome which is exactly the same as buffing everything else up to a relatively equal level? Unless you mean you only want to buff the assault suits and not anything else. If that's the case, you'll find the scouts and heavies thoughts on your idea won't be supportive. And if you're saying all other dropsuits should be buffed, then why not simply nerf what's overpowered? Buffs and nerfs should be measured out. Too many nerfs and no one has HP to survive half an AR clip. Too many buffs and your nanohives are popped before you kill one person. And this is especially important for dropsuits. CCP has to be careful what they do to them, and currently fights against all but prototype caldari logistics suits geared for shields and equipped with uplinks, nanohives and an AR are fairly balanced. I do well in my STD logistics suit in every game but PC, and in PC when I use my PRO gear, I'm usually making a difference. But pit a shield tanked cal logi against me and it all falls to bits. Even if I land a flux, they simply have to get out for a few seconds for their regulators to replenish their tank, or simply take the flux and kill me because by the time it detonates, I'm respawning. Buffing all other suits means having to find that balance again. Right now it's not so bad, besides that one suit everyone's losing their minds over.
zBroadway Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 26	Posted - 2013.06.25 22:42:00 - [42] - Quote Jastad wrote: Colonel Killar wrote: What was the Assault Bonus? 2% Hybrid weap reload. With this change we have and ASS with bonus (but with less slot, that make it a little less gamebreaking ) and a Logi that reload faster with His only weapon. I really dont think its the bonuses that make the caldari logi unfair...i mean they are definitely the best bonuses out of all the suits, in my opinion. I kinda think that its the amount of High and low slots that make it OP. Yea not having a side arm definitely sucksss. And 3 equipment slots is nice..but at most I use 2 (nanohives and uplinks..both lvl1 because id rather use up my cpu/pg on other things since i play the assault role out of the logi suit)..normally I only use 1 of the 3 available equipment slots. Dont get me wrong..i agree that the caldari logi is OP...and something should be done to balance it out a little bit since it is exploited by a lot of assault guys, including myself. But i dont think it is OP for those people who choose to play true support logi role with that suit...they would have proto nano, proto uplinks..proto repair hive..ect ect.. All of which take up a ton of pg/cpu, thus not leaving them a whole lot left for complex extenders, regulators, damage mods..ect ect. Which, in my opinion...makes it a balanced suit for a true support logi. Like i said..it is exploited and used differently then CCP imagined it would be..cant argue that...a dropsuit sp refund should be available for those who did choose to skill into it..regardless of how you outfit the suit or play the game.
Nicholas Silverton Red Star. EoN. 8	Posted - 2013.06.25 23:20:00 - [43] - Quote zBroadway wrote: Jastad wrote: Colonel Killar wrote: What was the Assault Bonus? 2% Hybrid weap reload. With this change we have and ASS with bonus (but with less slot, that make it a little less gamebreaking ) and a Logi that reload faster with His only weapon. I really dont think its the bonuses that make the caldari logi unfair...i mean they are definitely the best bonuses out of all the suits, in my opinion. I kinda think that its the amount of High and low slots that make it OP. Yea not having a side arm definitely sucksss. And 3 equipment slots is nice..but at most I use 2 (nanohives and uplinks..both lvl1 because id rather use up my cpu/pg on other things since i play the assault role out of the logi suit)..normally I only use 1 of the 3 available equipment slots. Dont get me wrong..i agree that the caldari logi is OP...and something should be done to balance it out a little bit since it is exploited by a lot of assault guys, including myself. But i dont think it is OP for those people who choose to play true support logi role with that suit...they would have proto nano, proto uplinks..proto repair hive..ect ect.. All of which take up a ton of pg/cpu, thus not leaving them a whole lot left for complex extenders, regulators, damage mods..ect ect. Which, in my opinion...makes it a balanced suit for a true support logi. Like i said..it is exploited and used differently then CCP imagined it would be..cant argue that...a dropsuit sp refund should be available for those who did choose to skill into it..regardless of how you outfit the suit or play the game. I agree 100% and I don't think there is an obvious way to deter the assault guys from using it without affecting the genuine logi guys, it's going to take some serious thinking on CCPs part. Maybe requiring all equipment slots to be filled?
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 319	Posted - 2013.06.26 00:14:00 - [44] - Quote Seeing as i was a Caldari Logi and actually specc'd out of it, here is what i think should be done for that suit to help balance it to assautls all around. As Marston said w/ going to a 4-3 slot setup would work good. However, i believe in ALL assault suits, the proto RACIAL variant should have 2 equip slots; as it'd be a great way to distinguish it from the basic proto suit besides just a passive skill which atm can be quite crappy. I like the idea of the 5-3 for the assault suit, however i think you'd need to up the CPU & PG the suit has, as unless you run a recharger in 1 of the 5 high slots you'll be over PG for a certainty; and even then it requires you to skill into rechargers if you haven't, and get lv 4 or 5 in Circuity for max CPU and for use of proto CPU upgrades which you may need at that point (as proto recharger costs 90 CPU). In doing those changes, CCP would probably need to alter the CPU & PG of all assault and logi suits a bit In regards to LAV's, remove the HP buff they were given in Uprising. If issue still persists, change the passive skill on them Flaylocks: this is interesting, as i was going to skill them myself so may be bias. I think they are a bit of a problem especially on direct damage, but at same time you only have 3 (or 4 shots). One thing that could be done would be to lower its efficiency against shields to something like 50-60% so people would actually need to use it as a sidearm, or if its your AV backup, make sure you have flux. Im unsure here, as from what people say, the flaylock isn't all the good till proto anyway, so 620k for something to be good isn't a horrible idea when u consider can use a GEK for ~130k .


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