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Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
11
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Posted - 2013.06.24 19:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just wondering, of all the people that think we should have optional respecs, are you familiar with MAG's respec system? I was fond of it while I played. In MAG, skills cost 1-3 points per skill in a similar skill tree system to DUST 514 and you are allowed infinite respecs but each respec costs you one of your earned SP. So how would you feel about the same system in DUST, paying a certain amount of SP to respec whenever needed/wanted? Not saying I'm in favour of it, just wondering what people think as I haven't seen it be mentioned yet (although I haven't seen every thread in existence). |
Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
440
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Posted - 2013.06.24 19:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
No respecs period, if you ask me. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
211
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Posted - 2013.06.24 19:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bad timing. There has been an ongoing argument on the forums concerning Respecs for the last couple of months at least. The arguments got pretty heated last week.
At the moment you have 4 general groups.
1. Those who say no. No more Respecs ever. 2. Those who argue for Respecs during this period of rebalancing of gear. 3. Those who want periodic Respecs varying from every 3, 6, 12 months. 4. Those who want Respecs whenever they want but it costs something e.g. Aurum, Isk or SP
My preference is for options 2 and 3.
However your about to get slammed for re-raising this idea.
Good Luck. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3984
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Posted - 2013.06.24 19:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
We need some form of gradual skill refund system that allows you to take say, one point per week out of any given skill, and this just slowly pools up. It would allow you to slightly adjust and tweak your build, without giving anyone a full blown reset. |
Draco Dustflier
DUST University Ivy League
137
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Posted - 2013.06.24 19:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
YES PLEASE! |
Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
11
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Posted - 2013.06.24 19:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:Bad timing. There has been an ongoing argument on the forums concerning Respecs for the last couple of months at least. The arguments got pretty heated last week.
At the moment you have 4 general groups.
1. Those who say no. No more Respecs ever. 2. Those who argue for Respecs during this period of rebalancing of gear. 3. Those who want periodic Respecs varying from every 3, 6, 12 months. 4. Those who want Respecs whenever they want but it costs something e.g. Aurum, Isk or SP
My preference is for options 2 and 3.
However your about to get slammed for re-raising this idea.
Good Luck.
Haha, fair enough. Let it commence.... lol.
Anyway, for the reocrd I would prefer options 2 and 3 also. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1995
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Posted - 2013.06.24 20:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
The other part of MAG that made that system work, was a skill ceiling. No matter how long you played, you only have 70 skill points to use. The more I think about, the more interesting such a system might be to test with DUST's tree. Maybe once you hit 10M SP you stop gaining more, but gain a respec token for every 1M additional? Perhaps that's too low and we should bump that up to 20M. Would be interesting at the very least. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
5381
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 20:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
A Mag Like system only worked because there was low ceiling cap to hit. Also 20 million or 30 million is hardly enough for some future specs such as MCC commander to lvl 5. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3984
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Posted - 2013.06.24 20:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:A Mag Like system only worked because there was low ceiling cap to hit. Also 20 million or 30 million is hardly enough for some future specs such as MCC commander to lvl 5. Hopefully it's not like DUST where your first 80% of SP put into a skill is primarily worthless |
Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
11
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Posted - 2013.06.24 20:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:The other part of MAG that made that system work, was a skill ceiling. No matter how long you played, you only have 70 skill points to use. The more I think about, the more interesting such a system might be to test with DUST's tree. Maybe once you hit 10M SP you stop gaining more, but gain a respec token for every 1M additional? Perhaps that's too low and we should bump that up to 20M. Would be interesting at the very least.
Yeah sorry, forgot about that. A skill ceiling would be needed if this was to be implemented. 20M sounds reasonable but may be slightly high - not sure. |
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ratamaq doc
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
26
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Posted - 2013.06.24 20:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Normally I would be in the 'No Respec Ever' group. but with the swings in rebalance and the time it takes to swing back, I'd like to not be locked into something that is viable (or OP) today and nerfed tomorrow. waiting 3 months for a new fix that may just bring other issues is horrible
One thing that would make it bearable would be to incorporate it into the lore. For instance, today Cal Logi's are the op way to go, maybe a 'reason' is an increase to shield performance that later on a balance would be a lore 'technology improvement' to counter. that way there is less of a 'this sucks cause CCP can't agile develop a sprint to save their lives' to 'adapt and overcome is a realistic component of this game'
Mass Drivers are currently screwed because of a Galaxy wide bad batch of ammo. Laser crystals (or whatever they use) are scarce so weapons are being made with an inferior stone.
This way, CCP can just make up excuses for bad swings or coding errors, and we can have 'fun' playing along.
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BARDAS
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2013.06.24 20:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:Bad timing. There has been an ongoing argument on the forums concerning Respecs for the last couple of months at least. The arguments got pretty heated last week.
At the moment you have 4 general groups.
1. Those who say no. No more Respecs ever. 2. Those who argue for Respecs during this period of rebalancing of gear. 3. Those who want periodic Respecs varying from every 3, 6, 12 months. 4. Those who want Respecs whenever they want but it costs something e.g. Aurum, Isk or SP
My preference is for options 2 and 3.
However your about to get slammed for re-raising this idea.
Good Luck.
I could live with #2 and #4. I don't understand why some people are so dead set against it? Is it just because you want to continue to dominate people who messed up while setting up their character? Are you threatened that someone may respec into a build that will dominate yours? If it cost AUR it would add a significant revenue stream into CCP's pocketbooks which could be used to improve the game. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1175
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Posted - 2013.06.24 20:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Another respec thread?
Sorry Biscuit, you were a good kitty, but this man here killed you.
Sammy's up on the chopping block next. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
762
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 20:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Make it cost aurum and SP... at least once the massive changes and rebalancing slows down... and give one free one per year... so it's still pay to save time... ;) |
Asher Night
187. League of Infamy
138
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Posted - 2013.06.24 20:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:No respecs period, if you ask me.
As 8f Dust hasn't already bled its players out of its servers all over the floor, do you have any idea how many fewer players Dust would have if you never got to respec? The amount of time it takes to build up SP vastly outshadows the different things you can actually do while actually playing the game in a match. The amount of crap you have to do over and over again is already tedious.
If new players just learning the game realized after a couple weeks or a month that they want a different playstyle and all that time was wasted and they will never get to respec - do you want this game to die? The more options a game gives you, the better. Look at how long WoW was on top. Look at The Elder Scrolls series. If yo7 want a game to succeed give the user a **** ton of options and don't force them down any path just because they ignorantly set foot on the trail. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2061
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Posted - 2013.06.24 20:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:No respecs period, if you ask me. ^This. |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
546
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Posted - 2013.06.24 21:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
A lot of the times, this response is not the correct one. In this case, however, it is:
HTFU
That goes to anyone arguing for periodic respecs or the like.
To the original poster, however, who made a cool, reasoned suggestion, here is the cool, reasoned response:
No, Dust should not have MAG-like RESPECS. In New Eden skill points are a currency you can use to purchase skills. The current system very much plays into the traditional mind set. Risk: You risk the things into which you skill becoming nerfed or otherwise being mitigated by the development of new strategies. Reward: When you make the correct calls with your skills and adapt to the situation.
The only people pleased by respecs are those that want to continually invest in the new "flavor of the month" skilling build. Right now it's Caldari logistics. Come Uprising 1.2 it might be something else. In any case, the idea of a respec is completely contrary to a central maxim I thoroughly enjoy in Dust:
Your decisions carry consequences. Enjoy your successes, and experience your defeats.
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A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
211
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Posted - 2013.06.24 21:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
I am very much for Respecs but I am very much against a scheme that would require Aurum I.e real money to be part of the price. This would be too much like pay to win. You should always include a method, that does not include money, that allows players to do something like Respecs.
If you do a search for " Global respec with Chromosone 1.2?" you will see one of the more recent and extensive threads on this issue. |
Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
444
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Posted - 2013.06.24 21:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Asher Night wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:No respecs period, if you ask me. As 8f Dust hasn't already bled its players out of its servers all over the floor, do you have any idea how many fewer players Dust would have if you never got to respec? The amount of time it takes to build up SP vastly outshadows the different things you can actually do while actually playing the game in a match. The amount of crap you have to do over and over again is already tedious. No I don't. Do you? You realize that since neither of us has solid quantitative data this point is useless to both sides of the argument?
And if you want more interesting crap to do go ask for more interesting crap to do, not respecs. Respecs are not the end all solution for balance, bugs or general content issues and i dare say not even remotely helpfull in the long run.
Asher Night wrote: If new players just learning the game realized after a couple weeks or a month that they want a different playstyle and all that time was wasted and they will never get to respec - do you want this game to die? The more options a game gives you, the better. Look at how long WoW was on top. Look at The Elder Scrolls series. If yo7 want a game to succeed give the user a **** ton of options and don't force them down any path just because they ignorantly set foot on the trail.
Last i checked WoW is bleeding over 1m players a year already. Blizzard is even working on the next thing because WoW is slowly but certainly dying of old age.
There's that other game that's of about similar age, just a wee bit older wich still manages to grow but i cant think of a name right now. Starts with an E and shares the same universe and most of it's rules with Dust 514. Skyrim was the first title to add "respecs" to the game and if that's about content, again, ask for content, not for respecs. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3986
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Posted - 2013.06.24 21:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Last i checked WoW is bleeding over 1m players a year already. Blizzard is even working on the next thing because WoW is slowly but certainly dying of old age.
There's that other game that's of about similar age, just a wee bit older wich still manages to grow but i cant think of a name right now. Starts with an E and shares the same universe and most of it's rules with Dust 514.
Except WoW has been wildly successful for them (who hasn't heard of WoW, if not played it?) and brought in a massive wealth of resources.
There is a significantly different philosophy that needs to be applied to retain and encourage new FPS players to "explore" what little of DUST there IS to explore. |
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Django Quik
R.I.f.t
738
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Posted - 2013.06.24 21:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Respecs in general go against the core principle of permanence that exists in Dust and would annoy many more players that are likely to stick with this long term than those who want regular respecs. If you get bored playing the style you picked, you're probably not going to last a long time in this game anyway.
However, a large portion of the desire for respecs would be negated if the skill trees were designed with a more sensible long term approach like i suggested recently here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=971693#post971693 |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1748
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Posted - 2013.06.24 21:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
I agree with that system, sacrifice a chunk of SP to respec.
My stance On respecs- We SHOULD NOT have been given these optional respecs right now; everyone who asked for one just wants to use the OP stuff.
However, there should be a semi-respec whenever something new is released (maybe not new modules, but new suits, vehicles, and etc) Say minmatar and amarr vehicles were introduced. Players would be offered an optional respec- HOWEVER, it would only respec SP from vehicle related skills. This keeps respecs honest, and not just some ******* asking for a respec whenever something new comes out, just to move to whatever is OP. |
KING CHECKMATE
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
121
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Posted - 2013.06.24 21:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:Bad timing. There has been an ongoing argument on the forums concerning Respecs for the last couple of months at least. The arguments got pretty heated last week.
At the moment you have 4 general groups.
1. Those who say no. No more Respecs ever. 2. Those who argue for Respecs during this period of rebalancing of gear. 3. Those who want periodic Respecs varying from every 3, 6, 12 months. 4. Those who want Respecs whenever they want but it costs something e.g. Aurum, Isk or SP
My preference is for options 2 and 3.
However your about to get slammed for re-raising this idea.
Good Luck.
2-3 seem the most reasonable and i would LOVe this...Specially since each re-balance Fcks weapons and dropsuits , makes changes ecetc... so its only fair if you get your stuff nerfed or buffed to decide if you want to keep it or not.
But i wouldn't mind 4 either. I mean if a person spends his time to earn SP and makes a mistake (that we all do) he deserves the chance to fix it. Is not like they are asking for Free SP, Just relocate the ones that they have misplaced....So i really dont see the problem with it either.... |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
738
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 21:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I agree with that system, sacrifice a chunk of SP to respec.
My stance On respecs- We SHOULD NOT have been given these optional respecs right now; everyone who asked for one just wants to use the OP stuff.
However, there should be a semi-respec whenever something new is released (maybe not new modules, but new suits, vehicles, and etc) Say minmatar and amarr vehicles were introduced. Players would be offered an optional respec- HOWEVER, it would only respec SP from vehicle related skills. This keeps respecs honest, and not just some ******* asking for a respec whenever something new comes out, just to move to whatever is OP. See my post and linked thread above yours for a better way to avoid the need for new content respec requests. |
KING CHECKMATE
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
121
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 21:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I agree with that system, sacrifice a chunk of SP to respec.
My stance On respecs- We SHOULD NOT have been given these optional respecs right now; everyone who asked for one just wants to use the OP stuff.
However, there should be a semi-respec whenever something new is released (maybe not new modules, but new suits, vehicles, and etc) Say minmatar and amarr vehicles were introduced. Players would be offered an optional respec- HOWEVER, it would only respec SP from vehicle related skills. This keeps respecs honest, and not just some ******* asking for a respec whenever something new comes out, just to move to whatever is OP.
1st off who DOESN't want to use the Op stuff all the time?
2nd it would be good for everyone to move to whatever is OP, this way the problem becomes obvious and there by fixed faster.
IMO that is |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1995
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 22:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:A Mag Like system only worked because there was low ceiling cap to hit. Also 20 million or 30 million is hardly enough for some future specs such as MCC commander to lvl 5.
Why would you do that? Why must X asset by inaccessible for over a year? Sounds like a poor plan. |
Spkr4theDead
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
200
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Posted - 2013.06.24 22:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
Flint Beastgood III wrote:Just wondering, of all the people that think we should have optional respecs, are you familiar with MAG's respec system? I was fond of it while I played. In MAG, skills cost 1-3 points per skill in a similar skill tree system to DUST 514 and you are allowed infinite respecs but each respec costs you one of your earned SP. So how would you feel about the same system in DUST, paying a certain amount of SP to respec whenever needed/wanted? Not saying I'm in favour of it, just wondering what people think as I haven't seen it be mentioned yet (although I haven't seen every thread in existence). Um... if that's what you remember about MAG'S respec system, you probably haven't played in over 2 years. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
310
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Posted - 2013.06.24 22:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:We need some form of gradual skill refund system that allows you to take say, one point per week out of any given skill, and this just slowly pools up. It would allow you to slightly adjust and tweak your build, without giving anyone a full blown reset.
Well there's an idea I haven't heard before.
That's rock solid, sir. I'm in the "NO RESPECS EVAR" camp, and that's rock solid.
+1!
ED: Combine that with an SP loss mechanism, say, 5% of what you "unpointed" and I'd be a true believer. |
Chinduko
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
227
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Posted - 2013.06.24 23:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
If only this reasonable request for respecs was available. |
Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
14
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Posted - 2013.06.27 05:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Flint Beastgood III wrote:Just wondering, of all the people that think we should have optional respecs, are you familiar with MAG's respec system? I was fond of it while I played. In MAG, skills cost 1-3 points per skill in a similar skill tree system to DUST 514 and you are allowed infinite respecs but each respec costs you one of your earned SP. So how would you feel about the same system in DUST, paying a certain amount of SP to respec whenever needed/wanted? Not saying I'm in favour of it, just wondering what people think as I haven't seen it be mentioned yet (although I haven't seen every thread in existence). Um... if that's what you remember about MAG'S respec system, you probably haven't played in over 2 years.
That is correct. I played all through the beta and up until they released the 2nd DLC.
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
766
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Posted - 2013.06.27 05:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Flint Beastgood III wrote:Just wondering, of all the people that think we should have optional respecs, are you familiar with MAG's respec system? I was fond of it while I played. In MAG, skills cost 1-3 points per skill in a similar skill tree system to DUST 514 and you are allowed infinite respecs but each respec costs you one of your earned SP. So how would you feel about the same system in DUST, paying a certain amount of SP to respec whenever needed/wanted? Not saying I'm in favour of it, just wondering what people think as I haven't seen it be mentioned yet (although I haven't seen every thread in existence).
No.
Respecs in Dust are over. |
DeeJay One
BetaMax. CRONOS.
41
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Posted - 2013.06.27 06:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote: Respecs in Dust are over.
I'm in the "only respec missing tree branches (like the heavy branch)" camp. If we get all the racial suits, then that's it.
New stuff will be added to the game all the time, adding a respec system would make the respecs mandatory for everyone, because some new weapon may be considered OP and when you don't switch to it, you're pretty much dead. When there are no respecs, everyone has an even starting point for the new stuff.
Oh and I also see the sheer amount of "I respecced wrong" threads on the forum, because someone missed a vital skill after respeccing and crying for another respec, and another, and another... (oh and also the "you lied to me, X is no longer OP, I want a respec again" threads)
But if respecs should ever come true in Dust, every respec should cost you at least 10% of your SP (personally I'd go for 20%) |
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