DUST Search - Why satanism does not work in a world of choice.

hooc roht wrote:

No it is not because of hot wax on nipples and Iron madden album covers. Those things are kind of cool.

Fundamentally satanism is a the belief in one's superiority over everyone else. Like a villain with all his disposable henchmen (and yes this only happens in comic books) Of course if everyone is superior in a group then no one is a ditch digger. In other religions ditch diggers do just fine. Christianity for example the ditch digger goes to the same heaven the boss does. In Hindu or Buddhism it is your fate to be a ditch digger and in the next life you will be the boss and the boss will be a ditch digger.

The other religions have an "out" for ditch diggers...an equality that allows the ditch digger hope. Satanism does not. Either you are the one and only top guy or you suck and must follow and dig ditch.

No one will choose of their own free will to be a ditch digger.

Quote:

There are lots of ways MMO designers get around this. They use NPCs for all the ditch digging...this sort of works. But if you have ever played WoW and gone into Stormwind and seen all the heroes climbing on the fountain, infesting the streets, and hopping everywhere (guess now they are flying every where as well) it gets kind of crazy and out of proportion. Another way and this is more recent is to make controlled instances. In other words areas that are co-op and areas that are public. It looks like destiny and the division will do this...wow has done it as well...though to a lesser degree.

Anyway Dust is like satanism. It has no out for the ditch digger but a long hard slog of months of grinding and getting stomped by players who are not particularly good but were here first and therefore have special powers. Now other MMOs have level disparity but they get around this by making safe areasof seperation between old players and new players. Like in EvE's hi-sec and multitude of PvE play or in WoW's PvE servers or leveled PvE areas.

Just like satanism Dust has no out for the ditch digger. And any player who plays a game by choice will choose not to play it. This is a fundamental game design flaw and why Dust fails in the market place.

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hooc roht Deep Space Republic 56	Posted - 2013.06.22 19:45:00 - [1] - Quote No it is not because of hot wax on nipples and Iron madden album covers. Those things are kind of cool. Fundamentally satanism is a the belief in one's superiority over everyone else. Like a villain with all his disposable henchmen (and yes this only happens in comic books) Of course if everyone is superior in a group then no one is a ditch digger. In other religions ditch diggers do just fine. Christianity for example the ditch digger goes to the same heaven the boss does. In Hindu or Buddhism it is your fate to be a ditch digger and in the next life you will be the boss and the boss will be a ditch digger. The other religions have an "out" for ditch diggers...an equality that allows the ditch digger hope. Satanism does not. Either you are the one and only top guy or you suck and must follow and dig ditch. No one will choose of their own free will to be a ditch digger. In video games this is a problem.....especially in multi-player MMOs. No player wants to be the potion shop keeper...they all want to be the hero. There are lots of ways MMO designers get around this. They use NPCs for all the ditch digging...this sort of works. But if you have ever played WoW and gone into Stormwind and seen all the heroes climbing on the fountain, infesting the streets, and hopping everywhere (guess now they are flying every where as well) it gets kind of crazy and out of proportion. Another way and this is more recent is to make controlled instances. In other words areas that are co-op and areas that are public. It looks like destiny and the division will do this...wow has done it as well...though to a lesser degree. Anyway Dust is like satanism. It has no out for the ditch digger but a long hard slog of months of grinding and getting stomped by players who are not particularly good but were here first and therefore have special powers. Now other MMOs have level disparity but they get around this by making safe areasof seperation between old players and new players. Like in EvE's hi-sec and multitude of PvE play or in WoW's PvE servers or leveled PvE areas. Just like satanism Dust has no out for the ditch digger. And any player who plays a game by choice will choose not to play it. This is a fundamental game design flaw and why Dust fails in the market place.
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2681	Posted - 2013.06.22 19:49:00 - [2] - Quote Did this post have a point other then, "We need to seperate new and old players?" You realize no one takes you seriously either - right? What happen to SP being a crutch and how amazing you are having 1 mill SP and still rockin' PROTO guys? Lol Guess you're startin' to feel the pain of PC sucking.
Cody Sietz Tritan's Onslaught 226	Posted - 2013.06.22 19:54:00 - [3] - Quote I wanna transport player vehicles onto and off the battlefield. I wanna run a salvage and scrap with a little mining business on the side. Seriously, I've done the hero thing...I'm happy to step the side and support now. Sign me up.
hooc roht Deep Space Republic 56	Posted - 2013.06.22 19:57:00 - [4] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: I wanna transport player vehicles onto and off the battlefield. I wanna run a salvage and scrap with a little mining business on the side. Seriously, I've done the hero thing...I'm happy to step the side and support now. Sign me up. That would be a PvE "out" as i described above. EvE and WoW and about a billion other MMO's have the same thing. Dust does not.
hooc roht Deep Space Republic 58	Posted - 2013.06.22 20:17:00 - [5] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Did this post have a point other then, "We need to seperate new and old players?" Nope you read it wrong. Separation is how EvE and WoW do it. I am not making suggestion of how to fix it in this post. I am describing a fundamental game design flaw in Dust. Planet Side 2 for example does not separate. it just makes the old and new players relatively equal on the battle field. There are probably a hundred different ways to mitigate or eliminate the flaw and probably a hundred more yet to be discovered. The point of the post is drive home that it is a fundamental flaw. Dust has lots of "problems" OPs need to be nerfed, UPs need to buffed, lag needs to lowered, PC needs different timers, Dust needs to be ported to the PS4, Links need to be made with EvE and on and on and on....but none of these are fundamental game design flaws. They are just features that need to be added or tweeked according to someones preference. This is not to say there are not other fundamental game design flaws....but those are not the point of my post.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3940	Posted - 2013.06.22 20:22:00 - [6] - Quote I love this post for so many reasons
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 717	Posted - 2013.06.22 20:26:00 - [7] - Quote I think he's trying to get rid of our ability to choose so he can rule...
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 5362	Posted - 2013.06.22 20:35:00 - [8] - Quote Interesting theology there though couldn't you find another example? It might ruffle other peoples feathers like those trolls from Gamers for Christ corp.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 701	Posted - 2013.06.22 20:45:00 - [9] - Quote Gamers For Cthulhu

GM Vegas Game Masters C C P Alliance 560	Posted - 2013.06.22 20:45:00 - [10] - Quote Moving this to the Locker Room.


SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2683	Posted - 2013.06.22 20:46:00 - [11] - Quote GM Vegas wrote: Moving this to the Locker Room. uh - why? It IS a general discussion of dust514 using satanology as a metaphor. o.0
Juana Killemall Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 6	Posted - 2013.06.22 20:57:00 - [12] - Quote Quote: In video games this is a problem.....especially in multi-player MMOs. No player wants to be the potion shop keeper...they all want to be the hero. erm wasn't a major part of ultima online that you could be the potion shop keeper, not to mention eves non combat professions eg.. couriers, miners, traders ect and even dust supports this play style in a limited capacity with logistics and pilots
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1707	Posted - 2013.06.22 21:00:00 - [13] - Quote hooc roht wrote: No it is not because of hot wax on nipples and Iron madden album covers. Those things are kind of cool. Fundamentally satanism is a the belief in one's superiority over everyone else. Like a villain with all his disposable henchmen (and yes this only happens in comic books) Of course if everyone is superior in a group then no one is a ditch digger. In other religions ditch diggers do just fine. Christianity for example the ditch digger goes to the same heaven the boss does. In Hindu or Buddhism it is your fate to be a ditch digger and in the next life you will be the boss and the boss will be a ditch digger. The other religions have an "out" for ditch diggers...an equality that allows the ditch digger hope. Satanism does not. Either you are the one and only top guy or you suck and must follow and dig ditch. No one will choose of their own free will to be a ditch digger. This is both offensive, and inaccurate. Quote: In video games this is a problem.....especially in multi-player MMOs. No player wants to be the potion shop keeper...they all want to be the hero. nonsense. ever played Ultima Online? Second Life? Hell, EVE Online? Quote: There are lots of ways MMO designers get around this. They use NPCs for all the ditch digging...this sort of works. But if you have ever played WoW and gone into Stormwind and seen all the heroes climbing on the fountain, infesting the streets, and hopping everywhere (guess now they are flying every where as well) it gets kind of crazy and out of proportion. Another way and this is more recent is to make controlled instances. In other words areas that are co-op and areas that are public. It looks like destiny and the division will do this...wow has done it as well...though to a lesser degree. Anyway Dust is like satanism. It has no out for the ditch digger but a long hard slog of months of grinding and getting stomped by players who are not particularly good but were here first and therefore have special powers. Now other MMOs have level disparity but they get around this by making safe areasof seperation between old players and new players. Like in EvE's hi-sec and multitude of PvE play or in WoW's PvE servers or leveled PvE areas. Just like satanism Dust has no out for the ditch digger. And any player who plays a game by choice will choose not to play it. This is a fundamental game design flaw and why Dust fails in the market place. Dust fails in the marketplace because the basic gameplay mechanics are terrible, and there is no new-player experience to explain the ethos of the game or the larger context of the player's actions. As can be clearly seen with basically every single-player experience ever, people like a challenge in a videogame. It's FUN to be the underdog. The problem here is that with FPS, players are so used to the one dimensional symmetrical gameplay where no one is an underdog and everything is "fair," that they don't even know how to process a deeper asymmetrical gameplay... and CCP does nothing to help them along this path. With Dust 514 it's not about killing the guy in prototype gear more often than he kills you (because if you're in MLT, that's unlikely to happen), instead it's about overcoming the adversity of your low SP gear. When you're first starting out, you're David and the proto players are Goliath. The proto player is a "boss fight." You'll probably lose to him a bunch, but it sure feels good when you kill him and you know that death put him in the red for the round. As a new player in a MLT setup, it doesn't matter if he kills you 10 times.... just like in a boss battle you can hit "continue?" 10 times if you want. When you do finally kill the guy, you've won the encounter. You've made ISK for the round, and he didn't. If CCP would make these ideas more clear to new players (and the denser older players who still don't seem to get it), then they wouldn't treat the game like CoD and freak out when they don't immediately top the kill board at the end of the round.
hooc roht Deep Space Republic 60	Posted - 2013.06.22 21:11:00 - [14] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: This is both offensive, and inaccurate. My apologies to all the satanic ditch diggers of the world. I meant no offense.
Thanatos 716 Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 27	Posted - 2013.06.22 21:49:00 - [15] - Quote I want to be a potion shop keeper...
DeadlyAztec11 Max-Pain-inc 539	Posted - 2013.06.22 21:54:00 - [16] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Interesting theology there though couldn't you find another example? It might ruffle other peoples feathers like those trolls from Gamers for Christ corp. Narcissism Most leaders; successful generals, politicians; kings, emperors, dictators... Are/were narcissists
General John Ripper 187. League of Infamy 606	Posted - 2013.06.23 01:14:00 - [17] - Quote you had me on hot wax on nipples.
General John Ripper 187. League of Infamy 606	Posted - 2013.06.23 01:15:00 - [18] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Interesting theology there though couldn't you find another example? It might ruffle other peoples feathers like those trolls from Gamers for Christ corp. Narcissism Most leaders; successful generals, politicians; kings, emperors, dictators... Are/were narcissists Do you think I am a narcissist?
SATAN'S PRODIGY D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 9	Posted - 2013.06.23 15:51:00 - [19] - Quote I do not dig ditches.
Cody Sietz Tritan's Onslaught 229	Posted - 2013.06.23 16:13:00 - [20] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Interesting theology there though couldn't you find another example? It might ruffle other peoples feathers like those trolls from Gamers for Christ corp. Narcissism Most leaders; successful generals, politicians; kings, emperors, dictators... Are/were narcissists Type A personality is what I'd call it. We need such people, to lead, to fight back and just overall f@$& with people (it makes it interesting) That doesn't mean we don't need a supporting cast.



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