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iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
893
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Posted - 2013.06.21 11:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
A handful of devs, in thier spare time, managed to take a new piece of kit (VR googles) and develop a functioning multiplayer game from the ground up. As far as I know the only leg up they had was existing art assests from eve. No denying this is spectacular achievement.
So why did it take a reported 7 years (5 years from the official announcement) to develop Dust 514 with an existing engine and inhouse art team?
It would be really nice if CCP could pull a "Apocrytha sprint" with dust and get it to a complete state. By that I mean, a few more maps, complete racial suits and the four races base vehicles done. Obviously there are game design teams to finish working on balance and the like too.
Some people might say, it can't be done.
But CCP lives by thier war on the impossible. Deliver it CCP. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
692
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Posted - 2013.06.21 11:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
iceyburnz wrote:A handful of devs, in thier spare time, managed to take a new piece of kit (VR googles) and develop a functioning multiplayer game from the ground up. As far as I know the only leg up they had was existing art assests from eve. No denying this is spectacular achievement.
So why did it take a reported 7 years (5 years from the official announcement) to develop Dust 514 with an existing engine and inhouse art team?
It would be really nice if CCP could pull a "Apocrytha sprint" with dust and get it to a complete state. By that I mean, a few more maps, complete racial suits and the four races base vehicles done. Obviously there are game design teams to finish working on balance and the like too.
Some people might say, it can't be done.
But CCP lives by thier war on the impossible. Deliver it CCP.
Because Dust is a FPS, FPS is a genre written in stone, though Titanfall looks groundbreaking.
EVR is in its own class, there aren't games made like that anymore. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
24351
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Posted - 2013.06.21 11:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
As someone who worked on EVR I can give you a little bit of insight into this: EVR is no where near be able to be released as a published product.
1) We used a lot of things from places like Unity asset store that make it so we can't even sell the product. We used these things to save time and cut corners. 2) The game is only launchable via a completely complicated and convoluted batch file because the launch options are insane. What I mean is it is not user friendly at ALL. 3) EVR was built knowing that all the people would be in the same room connected to a server right there on the local network. 4) When we set this thing up at E3 to demo it took us ALL DAY on Monday to do that. All day to turn on 6 computers, plug in the Rift, and install the game... yea that isn't right but should give you an insight into its actual state. 5) While it is multiplayer it doesn't talk to anything but it's own little server. No cross game stuff. 6) Lag compensation is incredibly funny in it. 7) The list goes on for a long long ways.
The thing works as a tech demo because what we demoed was the Oculus Rift. The number of corners cut, hacks made, and general wizardry in it is not something any of the team would like to release. So when it comes to the number of legs up the EVR team had compared to the DUST team, it was MANY. We didn't have to care what people thought of the product, we didn't have to make something that could be sold, we were just experimenting with some tech. We wouldn't even want to release the source in it's current state (actually we couldn't due to assets from the Unity asset store) because of how terrible some of the code is.
This is not to diminish EVR. It did what it was supposed to do. It is a fantastic tech demo and a great representation of what can be done in 7 weeks by a dedicated team... when you can cut whatever corners you want. |
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iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
893
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Posted - 2013.06.21 11:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:As someone who worked on EVR I can give you a little bit of insight into this: EVR is no where near be able to be released as a published product.
1) We used a lot of things from places like Unity asset store that make it so we can't even sell the product. We used these things to save time and cut corners. 2) The game is only launchable via a completely complicated and convoluted batch file because the launch options are insane. What I mean is it is not user friendly at ALL. 3) EVR was built knowing that all the people would be in the same room connected to a server right there on the local network. 4) When we set this thing up at E3 to demo it took us ALL DAY on Monday to do that. All day to turn on 6 computers, plug in the Rift, and install the game... yea that isn't right but should give you an insight into its actual state. 5) While it is multiplayer it doesn't talk to anything but it's own little server. No cross game stuff. 6) Lag compensation is incredibly funny in it. 7) The list goes on for a long long ways.
The thing works as a tech demo because what we demoed was the Oculus Rift. The number of corners cut, hacks made, and general wizardry in it is not something any of the team would like to release. So when it comes to the number of legs up the EVR team had compared to the DUST team, it was MANY. We didn't have to care what people thought of the product, we didn't have to make something that could be sold, we were just experimenting with some tech. We wouldn't even want to release the source in it's current state (actually we couldn't due to assets from the Unity asset store) because of how terrible some of the code is.
This is not to diminish EVR. It did what it was supposed to do. It is a fantastic tech demo and a great representation of what can be done in 7 weeks by a dedicated team... when you can cut whatever corners you want.
Even though it was held together with hypthetical duct tape, string and love its still its pretty amazing achievement.
I just want to be awesome And right now its good, but its not finished and thats a little disappointing.
EDIT: Thanks for the response foxfour, you're the best Dev. |
Nephiliel
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
15
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Posted - 2013.06.21 12:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Who cares? What about our respec? Why don't you respond to some of that... |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
674
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 22:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:As someone who worked on EVR I can give you a little bit of insight into this: EVR is no where near be able to be released as a published product.
1) We used a lot of things from places like Unity asset store that make it so we can't even sell the product. We used these things to save time and cut corners. 2) The game is only launchable via a completely complicated and convoluted batch file because the launch options are insane. What I mean is it is not user friendly at ALL. 3) EVR was built knowing that all the people would be in the same room connected to a server right there on the local network. 4) When we set this thing up at E3 to demo it took us ALL DAY on Monday to do that. All day to turn on 6 computers, plug in the Rift, and install the game... yea that isn't right but should give you an insight into its actual state. 5) While it is multiplayer it doesn't talk to anything but it's own little server. No cross game stuff. 6) Lag compensation is incredibly funny in it. 7) The list goes on for a long long ways.
The thing works as a tech demo because what we demoed was the Oculus Rift. The number of corners cut, hacks made, and general wizardry in it is not something any of the team would like to release. So when it comes to the number of legs up the EVR team had compared to the DUST team, it was MANY. We didn't have to care what people thought of the product, we didn't have to make something that could be sold, we were just experimenting with some tech. We wouldn't even want to release the source in it's current state (actually we couldn't due to assets from the Unity asset store) because of how terrible some of the code is.
This is not to diminish EVR. It did what it was supposed to do. It is a fantastic tech demo and a great representation of what can be done in 7 weeks by a dedicated team... when you can cut whatever corners you want.
Still looks better than Dust. |
Ploo-Koon
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
21
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Posted - 2013.06.21 23:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Looking better doesn't mean the code is sound. You can code something to work in a very limited conditions with very few deltas and produce something that LOOKS amazing even if the underlying code is held up by shoe-strings. Complexity breeds bugs and the more complex a system is the more bugs and the harder is it to fix those bugs without creating new bugs. I'm not making excuses for some of the short comings of CCP development but as a software developer I can understand why every bug isn't fixed OMG RIGHT NOW!! |
Avallo Kantor
DUST University Ivy League
87
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Posted - 2013.06.21 23:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
In many ways this is a lot like how many Demos are developed for games. Contrary to what many people may think, Demos are often developed Separately from the main game, many of the assets for the demo are unique to said demo, and these assets take massive shortcuts. In many respects these demos are nothing more than the code equivalent of cardboard cutouts on supports, giving the illusion of a game without much actually behind it. In this respect it's relatively easy to get something up and working, or even playable [for short sprints] but these things are very rarely sound in the code. These demos can rarely hold up to scrutiny, and many professional demos actually take AWAY from the development of the main game, as many coders will have to be put onto the demo for a few weeks, and very few, if any of the assets that they produce for the demo can be moved back to the main game.
There is a MASSIVE difference between good code and smoke and mirrors, and while many would argue that on the surface they look the same, these smoke and mirror demos are not made to be expandable, or able to withstand unusual circumstances, and can come crashing down with relative ease if their parameters are exceeded.
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Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1685
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Posted - 2013.06.21 23:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
For anyone who thinks EVR looks cool, I highly recommend you take a look at Star Citizen.
Same basic idea, except the CEO of the company making it was the creator of the Wing Commander series. So basically, it'll be EVR, except probably much better than anything CCP would do. |
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