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TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1113
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 21:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I think AV grenades are fine if you have to actually hit your target with them.
Can you prime them like other grenades? I realize they contact detonate, but removing the seeker function from them in exchange for allow you to hold them out and ready before throwing might make them easier to use without being faceroll. No need to prime them. Throw them near the vehicle and they will seek the target, then explode on impact. If they didn't home in, that'd be pretty cool (but leave a homing variant in there at the cost of damage). Add a condition on the grenade so that it does normal damage to vehicles and massively reduced damage to infantry. I know it's not "realistic", but we're not shooting for realism - we're going for balance. Not at all. Have it be a shaped charge grenade. Basically, have it do massive damage on contact, but it only detonates on contact with vehicles, and its splash is nonexistent. Ya know, shaped charge didn't even cross my mind. That's as close to perfect as we could get. Fluff it up a bit with space talk and we're set :D |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
373
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 21:52:00 -
[32] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:If people didn't use PROTO AV (which is dirt cheap) against STD HAV's, there wouldn't be a problem. If people didn't use Proto Turrets against STD Drop Suits, there wouldn't be a problem. Jokes aside. In the real world, a single AV shot can destroy a tank. Because this is a game, it would be incredibly un-balanced if you could one shot tank. So it take multiple hits from AV to pop a tank. The biggest factor that makes tanks crap is that there are too many crap pilots who don't understand the strengths and weaknesses of their own tank. I have seen far too many tanks destroyed because they tried to "tank" AV fire. Even after CCP gave tanks a major buff in HP, crap pilots still flock to the forms to ***** that their tank doesn't have enough HP or that AV is too powerful. This speaks volumes about how much Dust tank pilots suck. Community, I call on you to buff to tanks with better pilots so that forums aren't drowning in crappy pilot tears. CCP can't do it, only you can.
This is actually antiquated, if we are talking about cutting-edge technology:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnAmPEjsOGw
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist_(countermeasure)
There are also other forms of Aggressive Defensive Systems, as well as internal defenses that make it significantly harder to destroy modern Main Battle Tanks. Even turret jamming is not as common as it once was, though still an appreciable problem. Irregardless, disabling a modern MBT is much more difficult then it was in the cold war era. This area is what I spend my life/job/freetime around. Modern warfair is significantly more complicated then it was a mere decade or two ago. Take for example the new acoustic systems that have been deployed for a while that can triangulate an identify a shooter along with his weapon type and range and location in actual combat time.
As my last note: This universe that we play in has magical shields that negate 100% of all damage until the shield buffer is destroyed... Realism be damned.
Gameplay >> Realism |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1116
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 00:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:medomai grey wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:If people didn't use PROTO AV (which is dirt cheap) against STD HAV's, there wouldn't be a problem. If people didn't use Proto Turrets against STD Drop Suits, there wouldn't be a problem. Jokes aside. In the real world, a single AV shot can destroy a tank. Because this is a game, it would be incredibly un-balanced if you could one shot tank. So it take multiple hits from AV to pop a tank. The biggest factor that makes tanks crap is that there are too many crap pilots who don't understand the strengths and weaknesses of their own tank. I have seen far too many tanks destroyed because they tried to "tank" AV fire. Even after CCP gave tanks a major buff in HP, crap pilots still flock to the forms to ***** that their tank doesn't have enough HP or that AV is too powerful. This speaks volumes about how much Dust tank pilots suck. Community, I call on you to buff to tanks with better pilots so that forums aren't drowning in crappy pilot tears. CCP can't do it, only you can. This is actually antiquated, if we are talking about cutting-edge technology: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnAmPEjsOGwhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist_(countermeasure) There are also other forms of Aggressive Defensive Systems, as well as internal defenses that make it significantly harder to destroy modern Main Battle Tanks. Even turret jamming is not as common as it once was, though still an appreciable problem. Irregardless, disabling a modern MBT is much more difficult then it was in the cold war era. This area is what I spend my life/job/freetime around. Modern warfair is significantly more complicated then it was a mere decade or two ago. Take for example the new acoustic systems that have been deployed for a while that can triangulate an identify a shooter along with his weapon type and range and location in actual combat time. As my last note: This universe that we play in has magical shields that negate 100% of all damage until the shield buffer is destroyed... Realism be damned. Gameplay >> Realism That's a pretty sweet video. Technology's scary kitten :v |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1693
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 00:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
I always find it funny when someone tries to claim that one of the "trade offs" for forge guns is that they are weak against infantry.
They are OHK against any infantry unit in the game, how is that possibly "weak against infantry?" They are one of the better anti-infantry weapons in the game. especially in the average mid-range encounter. Let's not even talk about how easy it is to "forge gun snipe" infantry from above. It's easier than using a regular sniper rifle. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1117
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 00:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:I always find it funny when someone tries to claim that one of the "trade offs" for forge guns is that they are weak against infantry.
They are OHK against any infantry unit in the game, how is that possibly "weak against infantry?" They are one of the better anti-infantry weapons in the game. especially in the average mid-range encounter. Let's not even talk about how easy it is to "forge gun snipe" infantry from above. It's easier than using a regular sniper rifle. There will always be outliers in any given situation. Some people are very good at aiming their forges at other people, most are not. If you miss the first shot and the other guy sees you, you're going down. I would certainly hope a gigantic ball of railrape is a one hit kill against infantry, but it can't rapid fire, can't deny areas, and slows you to a crawl (if heavies aren't at that point already).
This is beside the point of the thread though. I would like to continue discussing AV weaponry in terms of its intended role. |
Planetside2onPS4
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 08:31:00 -
[36] - Quote
http://youtu.be/otPKlJJ5G4c |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1125
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 15:30:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lookin' for some more feedback :v |
medomai grey
WarRavens League of Infamy
37
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 02:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:medomai grey wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:If people didn't use PROTO AV (which is dirt cheap) against STD HAV's, there wouldn't be a problem. If people didn't use Proto Turrets against STD Drop Suits, there wouldn't be a problem. Jokes aside. In the real world, a single AV shot can destroy a tank. Because this is a game, it would be incredibly un-balanced if you could one shot tank. So it take multiple hits from AV to pop a tank. The biggest factor that makes tanks crap is that there are too many crap pilots who don't understand the strengths and weaknesses of their own tank. I have seen far too many tanks destroyed because they tried to "tank" AV fire. Even after CCP gave tanks a major buff in HP, crap pilots still flock to the forms to ***** that their tank doesn't have enough HP or that AV is too powerful. This speaks volumes about how much Dust tank pilots suck. Community, I call on you to buff to tanks with better pilots so that forums aren't drowning in crappy pilot tears. CCP can't do it, only you can. This is actually antiquated, if we are talking about cutting-edge technology: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnAmPEjsOGwhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist_(countermeasure) There are also other forms of Aggressive Defensive Systems, as well as internal defenses that make it significantly harder to destroy modern Main Battle Tanks. Even turret jamming is not as common as it once was, though still an appreciable problem. Irregardless, disabling a modern MBT is much more difficult then it was in the cold war era. This area is what I spend my life/job/freetime around. Modern warfair is significantly more complicated then it was a mere decade or two ago. Take for example the new acoustic systems that have been deployed for a while that can triangulate an identify a shooter along with his weapon type and range and location in actual combat time. As my last note: This universe that we play in has magical shields that negate 100% of all damage until the shield buffer is destroyed... Realism be damned. Gameplay >> Realism
I did over simplify when I said that a single AV shot CAN destroy a tank. Notice I didn't choose to use the word "will"? I did not bother mentioning the various factors such as the different weaknesses of tank models, the varying effectiveness of different AV weaponry, situations, counter measures etc. because the point of my post was to call on the community to bring better tank pilots to the game. And as I have stated, game balance is more important than realism. No tank in this game should ever go down with just AV one shot.
And in regards to tanks that have never been destroyed or disabled by AV, keep in mind that there is a technological escalation relationship between arms and armor. Your awesome video link is proof of this. Todays virtually indestructible tank may be a little more vulnerable tomorrow.
PS: Thanks for video link. It was awesome.
*edited some spelling errors |
Xender17
Intrepidus XI Omega Commission
186
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 19:26:00 -
[39] - Quote
+1 so I could -1 |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1156
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 20:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:+1 so I could -1 Care to explain why you disagree? I'm completely open to other opinion. |
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ImpureMort
Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic
105
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 01:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:If people didn't use PROTO AV (which is dirt cheap) against STD HAV's, there wouldn't be a problem. if i didnt need to kill you bef some friendly stole my lav i would downgrade to adv av..but sadly ..i have about 3 secs to kill a tank before some scrub steals my 5 mill sp speck logi lav when they has no skills into it. so yeah im running an insta pop suit for vehicles boring really...but since my losses for stolen lavs exceed 2 mill a day on average..i will be running over people only from now on. so this proto av user is off the map for blowing up peoples toys |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1164
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 04:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tbh, I think the lack of a vehicle lock is intended. CCP, with 1.2, is introducing a way to kick players from a PC match before the game starts. They said that they want people to earn the corporations trust in order to be able to AWOX in a match, but they didn't want the corp leaders to have absolute control during a match. This means that they want some element of sabotage and espionage present in their game.
The lack of a vehicle lock means that someone is able to steal your vehicle and turn it against you. I see no problem with this.
I would, however, like to stay on the topic of AV and not derail the thread into vehicle locks. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3974
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 04:21:00 -
[43] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:The lack of a vehicle lock means that someone is able to steal your vehicle and turn it against you. I see no problem with this.
So are you saying that random blueberries stealing your vehicles is ok, or that you think anyone who doesn't play PC doesn't get a say? |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1165
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 04:31:00 -
[44] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:The lack of a vehicle lock means that someone is able to steal your vehicle and turn it against you. I see no problem with this.
So are you saying that random blueberries stealing your vehicles is ok, or that you think anyone who doesn't play PC doesn't get a say? I've never been part of a corp (though I have searched for one before), and I've had a tank or two stolen from me in the past. I see no problem with them taking it from me.
However, now that I think about it, there is literally no reason (aside from trolling) to AWOX a pub match, since the match doesn't matter, and even if you do get the vehicle, FF is off. Maybe have a sort of vehicle lock for matchmaking-based game modes, and everything outside of that use the current mechanics.
That said, I would really like to stay on the topic of the current AV balance and the suggestions made in this thread. |
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