DUST Search - How to fix logi's vs. assault

Tharak Meuridiar wrote:

I see three separate issues with logi vs. assault:

1. Logi is too good at killing which is assault's role.
2. The general logi / assault bonuses favor certain races too much. Assault bonus isn't good for armor tanks, logi isn't good for shield tanks (Unless they dual tank like most Caldari.)
3. Logi's intended role has lost a lot of usefulness. Most builds regenerate armor fairly efficiently on their own now. The days of beta where you were constantly running around repping people's armor damage that they couldn't regenerate themselves are gone. I run reps in a lot of my builds and barely use them because they are rarely needed.

I have 1 solution that solves ALL THREE problems quickly and simply:

Assault bonus: Light weapons do 4% more damage per level
Logistics bonus: Armor repairers heal shields for 20% of their armor repair amount per level

Problem 1 Solved: Logi's trade their armor repair bonus for one that is useless if you are playing a logi like an assault. Assault on the other hand become much more deadly at their intended role.

Problem 2 Solved: All good assault fits use a light weapon. Snipers, AV, the AR toting masses, shotguns, you name it. All logi will find it useful to rep shields and armor at the same time.

Problem 3 Solved: Logi's can now effectively be active healers. When they run into a firefight they can recharge people's shields or run behind heavies allowing them to shrug off large amounts of damage. They can even run behind HAVs no matter which type of damage they tank. A logi can now effectively be a full time healer like a Team Fortress 2 medic minus the ub+½r.


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BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 310	Posted - 2013.06.21 11:47:00 - [1] - Quote Tharak Meuridiar wrote: I see three separate issues with logi vs. assault: 1. Logi is too good at killing which is assault's role. 2. The general logi / assault bonuses favor certain races too much. Assault bonus isn't good for armor tanks, logi isn't good for shield tanks (Unless they dual tank like most Caldari.) 3. Logi's intended role has lost a lot of usefulness. Most builds regenerate armor fairly efficiently on their own now. The days of beta where you were constantly running around repping people's armor damage that they couldn't regenerate themselves are gone. I run reps in a lot of my builds and barely use them because they are rarely needed. I have 1 solution that solves ALL THREE problems quickly and simply: Assault bonus: Light weapons do 4% more damage per level Logistics bonus: Armor repairers heal shields for 20% of their armor repair amount per level Problem 1 Solved: Logi's trade their armor repair bonus for one that is useless if you are playing a logi like an assault. Assault on the other hand become much more deadly at their intended role. Problem 2 Solved: All good assault fits use a light weapon. Snipers, AV, the AR toting masses, shotguns, you name it. All logi will find it useful to rep shields and armor at the same time. Problem 3 Solved: Logi's can now effectively be active healers. When they run into a firefight they can recharge people's shields or run behind heavies allowing them to shrug off large amounts of damage. They can even run behind HAVs no matter which type of damage they tank. A logi can now effectively be a full time healer like a Team Fortress 2 medic minus the ub+½r. Lol there is no problem with Logistics except the Caldari logi. If you want more damage remove a shield and add a damage modifier, if you did you would notice your HP would be slightly higher than a logi, with more damage, and higher speed. Also 4% damage per level are you drunk buddy? The highest any racial damage bonus should go is 2% per level, the best way to make repairers useful is to make them heal both shields and armor, and then give all logistics CPU/PG reductions to equipment.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 310	Posted - 2013.06.21 12:02:00 - [2] - Quote Kitten Empress wrote: If you run the numbers, logis are better thanks to their slot layout. No exceptions. None. More equipment is just icing on the cake. If you run the numbers on a Caldari logistic, I have done it for all of the logistic suits and the only way for them to slightly have higher EHP would be by maxing low slots with plates, and they have to be complex. Of course this comes with crippling speed losses and CPU/PG constraints. So no matter how hard. Logistic tries it will never have higher EHP or speed, and a lower ability to stack damage modifiers because of the low base HP.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 310	Posted - 2013.06.21 12:31:00 - [3] - Quote IF you really want a strict separation between Logistics and Assaults then here is the best course of action without OPing one and UPing the other. Assaults: 1%/2% damage increase per level (stacking penalties apply with damage modifiers) Reduce EHP by 90 (Puts Assault base EHP at 15 EHP lower than a vanilla Logistic suit) Give all assault suits 1 extra High slot. Logistics: 5% CPU/PG reduction per level Increase EHP by 60 (Puts Logistics at the vanilla Assault suit base EHP) Remove the Caldari logistic bonus and 1 high slot to give 1 equipment slot. Keep Logistics slot configuration as is. Now you have Logistics built defensively, and Assaults offensively. At level 5 the assault will deal 5% to 10% more damage, and to compensate for their EHP reduction they could either choose to stick a shield module on a High, or keep their lower EHP and run with another damage modifier. The Logistics will be built more defensively, but with lower base speed. They could put in a damage modifier but this would lower their EHP to assault level and basically make them slow assaults due to the low speeds of the Logistics suit, and an assault suit will always do higher damage for the same EHP and higher speed. What I see people suggesting is to make Logistics super weak, and extremely defensive based without buffing their HP, speed, or anything that account to their survival, because without logis nobody will revive or heal you. Basically you guys want to build assault suits like fast heavies with damage modifiers, and Logistics like slow scouts with terrible defensive and offensive capabilities.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 310	Posted - 2013.06.21 14:24:00 - [4] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Assaults: 1%/2% damage increase per level (stacking penalties apply with damage modifiers) Reduce EHP by 90 (Puts Assault base EHP at 15 EHP lower than a vanilla Logistic suit) Give all assault suits 1 extra High slot. Logistics: 5% CPU/PG reduction per level Increase EHP by 60 (Puts Logistics at the vanilla Assault suit base EHP) Remove the Caldari logistic bonus and 1 high slot to give 1 equipment slot. Keep Logistics slot configuration as is. Wait what?!? You want to decrease Assault toughness and increase Logi toughness to balance them? Your suggested changes would make Logis even more ridiculous compared to Assaults. Well if you actually applied what I said you would notice that the difference in HP would be small, no more than 100 EHP. The assaults are getting a free ADV/Complex damage modifier and they are also 6% faster, AND I said to give them an extra High slot so you get the option to negate the HP difference.