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Sigbjorn Foerik
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.06.20 19:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since everyone is complaining about OP Caldari Logis, useless bonuses for some Dropsuits and more I just wrote down how the stats and bonuses etc of our Dropsuits should be or at least would be better than the current. I also added some new ideas like Caldari Missle Weapons(like the Flaylock Pistol), Vision Slots and Modules or Drones. I will posts my ideas about these things in another thread Soon(TM) because this is already quite long.
Racial Variants: In EVE each race has its own features regarding armor, shield, speed, fitting etc. which makes them unique. DUST should not be an EVE clone in FPS form but such things should be the same as in EVE.
I-¦ll use points to show and compare better how much they prefer something. Tanking: Amarr: Armor(4P), Stamina(2P) Caldari: Shield(4P), Shield Recharge Rate(2P) Minmatar: Shield(2P), Shield Recharge Delay(2P), Speed(2P) Gallente: Armor(3P), Speed(1P), Stamina Recovery Rate(2P)
Fitting: Amarr: Low Slots(3P), PG(3P) Caldari: Med Slots(3P), CPU(3P) Minmatar: Med Slots(2P), Low Slots(1P), CPU(2P), PG(1P) Gallente: Low Slots(2P), Med Slot (1P), PG(2P), CPU(1P)
If you sum these two lists up each race "spends" the same amount of points. Each faction should also get one specific Slot more than the others. There would be Grenade, Weapon (Sidearm), Equipment, Drone and Vision Slots although the last two are just an idea. Drone slots would definitively Gallente and Weapon (Sidearm) Slots should be Minmatar because they have least eHP and this would be in favor of Hit-and-Run-Tactics. Caldari respectively Amarr should get one additional Grenade/Vision respectively Equipment Slot.
Specialisations: The Specialised Dropsuits should be more expensive (ISK too) than their regular counterparts unlike it is at the moment. The only difference right now between the basic dropsuit and the specialisations (except logi) is that they are about 5k cheaper!! They all should have a sightly different slot layout and PG/CPU or different Stats in general.
Basic Light Dropsuit: +Fast Movement +Low Scan Profile +Low Scan Precision +High Shield Recovery -Few eHP -Little PG/CPU -Little High/Low Slots 1 Equipment Slot 1 Sidearm Slot 1 Light Weapon Slot 1 Grenade Slot
Scout: +Faster Hacking Speed +Higher Proximity Chat Range +Additional Vision Slot +Higher Melee Damage (higher than Heavy) --Less Grenade Slots -Less PG/CPU
Pilot: +Higher Sprint Speed +More eHP +More Drone Slots +More Stamina --Less High/Low Slots -Longer Shield Recharge Delay
Basic Medium Dropsuit: + Many High/Low Slots 1 Equipment Slot 1 Sidearm Slot 1 Light Weapon Slot 1 Grenade Slot
Assault: +Lower Scan Precision +More High/Low Slots +Faster Strafing +Additional Magazines/Grenades --Less Drone Slots -Slower
Logi: +More Equipment Slots +Higher PG/CPU +More eHP +Faster --Less Sidearm Slots -Less High/Low Slots
Basic Heavy Dropsuit: +Many eHP +Much PG/CPU +Heavy Weapons +High Scan Radius -Slow Movement -High Scan Profile -Few High/Low Slots 1 Heavy Weapon Slot 1 Sidearm Weapon Slot 1 Grenade Slot 1 Equipment Slot
Sentinel: +More Sidearm Slots +More eHP +Less Scan Profile +Faster Strafing --Less Equipment Slots -Slower
Command: +More Drone Slots +Additional Magazines/Grenades +Higher Scan Radius +Faster -Higher Scan Profile --Less Vision Slots
Bonuses: Right now there is a quite weird Boni system and thus there are Gallente Assaults with a Bonus to Shield recharge etc. Each Dropsuit except Militia should get an offensive and a defensive Racial Bonus, a Racial Frame Bonus, a Racial Specialisation Bonus and a General Specialisation Bonus.
Racial Bonuses: Amarr: +2% to Damage on fitted Energy Weapons per Skill Level +2% to Armor Resistance against Kinetic Damage
Caldari: +2% to Damage on fitted Missle Weapons/Railguns per Skill Level +2% to Shield Resistance against Thermal Damage
Minmatar: +2% to Damage on fitted Projectile Weapons per Skill Level +2% to Shield Resistance against EMP Damage per Skill Level
Gallente: +2% to Damage on fitted Hybrid Weapons/Blaster per Skill Level +2% to Armor Resistance against Explosive Damage per Skill Level
Racial Frame Bonuses: Amarr Light: +3% to Efficiency of Armor Plates per Skill Level Amarr Medium: -3% to Fitting Costs of Energy Weapons and Armor Modules per Skill Level Amarr Heavy: -3% to Speed Reduction of Armor Plates per Skill Level
Caldari Light: -3% to Scan Profile Increase of Shield Extenders per Skill Level Caldari Medium: -3% to Fitting Costs of Missle Weapons and Shield Modules per Skill Level Caldari Heavy: +3% to Efficiency of Shield Extenders and Shield Rechargers per Level
Minmater Light: -3% to Scan Profile Increase of Shield Extenders per Skill Level Minmatar Medium: +3% to Efficiency of Shield Extenders and Shield Regulators per Skill Level Minmatar Heavy: -3% to Fitting Costs of Projectile Weapons and Weapon Upgrades per Skill Level
Gallente Light: -3% to Fitting Costs of Hybrid Weapons and Biotic Modules per Skill Level Gallente Medium: -3% to Speed Reduction of Armor Plates per Skill Level Gallente Heavy: +3% to Efficiency of Armor Plates per Skill Level |
Sigbjorn Foerik
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.06.20 19:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Racial Specialisation Bonuses: Amarr Scout: +5% to Stamina per Skill Level Amarr Pilot: +5% to Active Duration of Heat Sinks on Vehicles per Skill Level Amarr Assault: -5% to Heat Build Up of Energy Weapons per Skill Level Amarr Logi: +5% to Efficiency of Armor Repairer Modules per Skill Level Amarr Sentinel: -5% to Feedback Damage of Energy Weapons per Skill Level Amarr Command: +5% to Capacitor of Drones per Skill Levels
Caldari Scout: +5% to Hacking Speed per Skill Level Caldari Pilot: -5% to Cooldown Time of Tracking Computers on Vehicles per Skill Level Caldari Assault: +5% to Bullet Speed of Missle Weapons per Skill Level Caldari Logi: +5% to Efficiency of Shield Extenders per Skill Level Caldari Sentinel: -5% to Charge-Up Time of Railguns per Skill Level Caldari Command: +5% to Range of Drones per Skill Level
Minmatar Scout: -5% to Shield Recharge Delay per Skill Level Minmatar Pilot: +5% to Active Duration of Afterburners and Fuel Injectors on Vehicles per Skill Level Minmatar Assault: -5% to Spread of Projectile Weapons per Skill Level Minmatar Logi: +5% Shield Resistance per Skill Level- Minmatar Sentinel: +5% to Efficieny of Weapon Upgrades per Skill Level Minmatar Command: +5% to Speed of Drones per Skill Level
Gallente Scout: +5% to Damage of Melee Attacks and Melee Weapons per Skill Level Gallente Pilot: +5% to Active Duration of Active Scanners on Vehicles per Skill Level Gallente Assault: +5% to Range of Blasters/Plasma Weapons per Skill Level Gallente Logi: -5% to the CPU/PG usage of Equipment per Skill Level Gallente Sentinel: -5% to the CPU/PG usage of Hybrid Weapons per Skill Level Gallente Command: +5% to Damage of Drones per Skill Level
General Specialisation Bonuses: Scout: -5% to Dropsuit-¦s Scan Profile per Skill Level Pilot: -5% to Vehicle Request Time per Skill Level Assault: -5% to Reload Time per Skill Level Logi: +5% to Equipment-¦s Efficiency per Skill Level Sentinel: +5% to Bullet Travell Speed of Heavy Weapons per Skill Level (This means less Spread, more Damage and a higher Range. There is not a 5% Boost to each!) Command: -5% to Installation Request Time per Skill Level
The percentages are just examples and should not be taken for serious. Everything about Pilot and Command Dropsuits as well as Drones, Vision Slots and Modules and Missle Weapons is just estimated and not confirmed by a member of CCP Games. These are just ideas. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
306
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Posted - 2013.06.20 19:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
If these numbers can't be taken seriously how do you expect me to reply anything meaningful :I |
Sigbjorn Foerik
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.06.20 19:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:If these numbers can't be taken seriously how do you expect me to reply anything meaningful :I I just took 5% as an example. The actual thing is the bonus itself and not the amount. It already took me a day or two to write this, if I would have balanced all the percentages I would have finished it when Uprisisng 1.2 arrives. |
Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
3
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Posted - 2013.06.21 02:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
This is a lot of stuff, so I will go section by section.
Tanking & Fitting I see what you're saying about the preference stuff, but that is mostly already established and not really broken, so I don't think any changes need to be made to that else the wrath of imbalance fall on us once again.
Specializations I think the pricing for suits makes sense. It is cheaper to build a car with two-wheel drive for only on road driving than it is to make a car with four-wheel drive for both on and off road driving.
Regarding some of the choices below, besides the slot ideas, I don't think some of the stats make sense. The Scout suit dealing more damage doesn't make sense to me; the Scout suit is like getting slapped by a bunch of paper machete, while getting Meleed by a Heavy is like being rammed with a cinder block. Also, if the Pilot is going to benefit Vehicles, it should have little to no combat capabilities. Logis should not be fast if they are carrying a bunch of Equipment; last thing I need is a Logi being able to outrun my Assault suit.
Bonuses I think applying a bonus just for having a Racial suit is a bit too much; it would be bonus galore to the point where too many things are getting boosted for no reason. The current specialization is for skilling into a specific suit class, and I don't see the need to have two separate specialization bonuses; seems like overkill. I don't think having an offensive and defensive bonus for each suit is appropriate, especially for roles that are either focused on only offense, defense, or neither.
In conclusion, I just think a lot of it is unnecessary overkill; until the game develops a solid core, this amount of complexity isn't needed. Even in the future, having too many separate slots and too many bonuses will clutter the game beyond what is necessary. |
Sibri Vannikh
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.06.21 15:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Samuel Zelik wrote: Specializations I think the pricing for suits makes sense. It is cheaper to build a car with two-wheel drive for only on road driving than it is to make a car with four-wheel drive for both on and off road driving.
Regarding some of the choices below, besides the slot ideas, I don't think some of the stats make sense. The Scout suit dealing more damage doesn't make sense to me; the Scout suit is like getting slapped by a bunch of paper machete, while getting Meleed by a Heavy is like being rammed with a cinder block. Also, if the Pilot is going to benefit Vehicles, it should have little to no combat capabilities. Logis should not be fast if they are carrying a bunch of Equipment; last thing I need is a Logi being able to outrun my Assault suit.
Bonuses I think applying a bonus just for having a Racial suit is a bit too much; it would be bonus galore to the point where too many things are getting boosted for no reason. The current specialization is for skilling into a specific suit class, and I don't see the need to have two separate specialization bonuses; seems like overkill. I don't think having an offensive and defensive bonus for each suit is appropriate, especially for roles that are either focused on only offense, defense, or neither.
In conclusion, I just think a lot of it is unnecessary overkill; until the game develops a solid core, this amount of complexity isn't needed. Even in the future, having too many separate slots and too many bonuses will clutter the game beyond what is necessary.
It seems legit that Scouts get a boost to Melee Damage. In real life scouts get a superb self defense training which includes melee trainings so they can operate without getting much attention through weapon noises. That Logis get a boost to Speed is also good. If you try repairing an Assault sprinting away from you is really hard especially if you have just a low range on your repairer. If they would be faster you could at least repair half of the armor or so before he is out of range.
Regarding Bonuses I absolutely agree with you. There are way too much of them. If he would remove these offensive and defensive bonuses each suit would get 3 bonuses which is okay. The idea of the Racial Frame Bonuses is quite good because this would negate some of the downsides of each frame and thus add a bit more complexity. |
Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
4
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Posted - 2013.06.21 15:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sibri Vannikh wrote:It seems legit that Scouts get a boost to Melee Damage. In real life scouts get a superb self defense training which includes melee trainings so they can operate without getting much attention through weapon noises. That Logis get a boost to Speed is also good. If you try repairing an Assault sprinting away from you is really hard especially if you have just a low range on your repairer. If they would be faster you could at least repair half of the armor or so before he is out of range. I wouldn't mind a slight boost to Melee Damage, but I don't think it'd be realistic for it to be more than the Heavy; close to the Medium Frame Melee seems legit if there were to be a change (I'm fine with what it is now). If Scouts want superb Melee, there are Nova Knives.
Regarding the Logis, we should think about the effects the speed would have outside of reping. Faster Logis means harder to kill Frame that should only be a support role and the speed boost would just further fuel the Logissault flame. Like I said before, having them fast and carrying a bunch of Equipment doesn't make sense to me either. |
Sigbjorn Foerik
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.06.21 16:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Samuel Zelik wrote:Sibri Vannikh wrote:It seems legit that Scouts get a boost to Melee Damage. In real life scouts get a superb self defense training which includes melee trainings so they can operate without getting much attention through weapon noises. That Logis get a boost to Speed is also good. If you try repairing an Assault sprinting away from you is really hard especially if you have just a low range on your repairer. If they would be faster you could at least repair half of the armor or so before he is out of range. I wouldn't mind a slight boost to Melee Damage, but I don't think it'd be realistic for it to be more than the Heavy; close to the Medium Frame Melee seems legit if there were to be a change (I'm fine with what it is now). If Scouts want superb Melee, there are Nova Knives. Regarding the Logis, we should think about the effects the speed would have outside of reping. Faster Logis means harder to kill Frame that should only be a support role and the speed boost would just further fuel the Logissault flame. Like I said before, having them fast and carrying a bunch of Equipment doesn't make sense to me either.
They would not be such fast that they bunnyhop around you, it be just a small boost. Maybe it would also be enough if they make Assaults slower but that has to be tested. If this is the case I would suggest a Scan Range boost for them.
Referring to your last post: The changes of preferences would be just to make the game core more like EVE. In EVE Amarr and Caldari have most Low/Med Slots because of their Tanking preferences, here Gallente and Minmatar do this. At least these things should be like EVE.
You also complained that Pilot-¦s should not have combat abilities. That-¦s also what I thought but it-¦s hard to do something like this. The eHP boost is there that they don-¦t get OHK by snipers while running to their vehicle, the Sprint Speed and Stamina boost that they can easily run to cover after the vehicle is destroyed or after calling in the vehicle. The Drone Slots are (just an idea) that they have more drones to repair the vehicle. This would require Repair Drones and they should follow the vehicle if the owner is inside. The cut of Med/Low Slots is actuallly to make them worse in combat.
If you have any ideas regarding the Pilot suit just add them. I-¦ll write this thread again with less bonuses and some other stuff changed. |
Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
4
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Posted - 2013.06.21 16:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sigbjorn Foerik wrote:They would not be such fast that they bunnyhop around you, it be just a small boost. Maybe it would also be enough if they make Assaults slower but that has to be tested. If this is the case I would suggest a Scan Range boost for them.
Referring to your last post: The changes of preferences would be just to make the game core more like EVE. In EVE Amarr and Caldari have most Low/Med Slots because of their Tanking preferences, here Gallente and Minmatar do this. At least these things should be like EVE.
You also complained that Pilot-¦s should not have combat abilities. That-¦s also what I thought but it-¦s hard to do something like this. The eHP boost is there that they don-¦t get OHK by snipers while running to their vehicle, the Sprint Speed and Stamina boost that they can easily run to cover after the vehicle is destroyed or after calling in the vehicle. The Drone Slots are (just an idea) that they have more drones to repair the vehicle. This would require Repair Drones and they should follow the vehicle if the owner is inside. The cut of Med/Low Slots is actuallly to make them worse in combat.
If you have any ideas regarding the Pilot suit just add them. I-¦ll write this thread again with less bonuses and some other stuff changed. I'd advocate the Assault suit speed reduction over the Logi speed boost because it would give the Light Frame's speed more of a significance and impact.
I'm not necessarily saying the Pilot suit should have little eHP or should be overly slow; I agree that reducing slot availability would also accomplish combat removal. Reducing the damage output of Pilot suits and limiting weapon accessibility would also do something similar; the Gunner Heavy Frame I tried to design proposed to reduce the suit's damage output by 30-50% because it had additional Shield and Armor , but was only supposed to benefit turrets/vehicles and not be a combat suit. |
Sigbjorn Foerik
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2013.06.21 16:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Samuel Zelik wrote:Sigbjorn Foerik wrote:They would not be such fast that they bunnyhop around you, it be just a small boost. Maybe it would also be enough if they make Assaults slower but that has to be tested. If this is the case I would suggest a Scan Range boost for them.
Referring to your last post: The changes of preferences would be just to make the game core more like EVE. In EVE Amarr and Caldari have most Low/Med Slots because of their Tanking preferences, here Gallente and Minmatar do this. At least these things should be like EVE.
You also complained that Pilot-¦s should not have combat abilities. That-¦s also what I thought but it-¦s hard to do something like this. The eHP boost is there that they don-¦t get OHK by snipers while running to their vehicle, the Sprint Speed and Stamina boost that they can easily run to cover after the vehicle is destroyed or after calling in the vehicle. The Drone Slots are (just an idea) that they have more drones to repair the vehicle. This would require Repair Drones and they should follow the vehicle if the owner is inside. The cut of Med/Low Slots is actuallly to make them worse in combat.
If you have any ideas regarding the Pilot suit just add them. I-¦ll write this thread again with less bonuses and some other stuff changed. I'd advocate the Assault suit speed reduction over the Logi speed boost because it would give the Light Frame's speed more of a significance and impact. I'm not necessarily saying the Pilot suit should have little eHP or should be overly slow; I agree that reducing slot availability would also accomplish combat removal. Reducing the damage output of Pilot suits and limiting weapon accessibility would also do something similar; the Gunner Heavy Frame I tried to design proposed to reduce the suit's damage output by 30-50% because it had additional Shield and Armor , but was only supposed to benefit turrets/vehicles and not be a combat suit. I think reducing damage is probably not the right way to do this. If they would have just an sidearm it makes a lot more sense. Same for your Gunner Hevy Frame. |
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Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
4
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Posted - 2013.06.21 17:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sigbjorn Foerik wrote:I think reducing damage is probably not the right way to do this. If they would have just an sidearm it makes a lot more sense. Same for your Gunner Hevy Frame. I think the Sidearm is a given, but I'm curious to hear why you'd be against damage reduction. For the Pilot suit, I don't think damage reduction would be that necessary because it's not a Heavy Frame and doesn't have a overly large amount of eHP, but a Gunner with more eHP than a Sentinal and an SMG defending a point could potentially be deadly. |
Sigbjorn Foerik
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.06.21 21:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Samuel Zelik wrote:Sigbjorn Foerik wrote:I think reducing damage is probably not the right way to do this. If they would have just an sidearm it makes a lot more sense. Same for your Gunner Hevy Frame. I think the Sidearm is a given, but I'm curious to hear why you'd be against damage reduction. For the Pilot suit, I don't think damage reduction would be that necessary because it's not a Heavy Frame and doesn't have a overly large amount of eHP, but a Gunner with more eHP than a Sentinal and an SMG defending a point could potentially be deadly.
A damage reduction would be kinda unlogical. The damage is part of the weapon not the suit. So to decrease the damage it would require some kind of module. This means you would have to add something to get worse and nobody would do this.
For your Gunner Heavy you could add increased recoil or a slower rotation speed or both instead of the damage reduction. |
Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
6
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Posted - 2013.06.21 21:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sigbjorn Foerik wrote:A damage reduction would be kinda unlogical. The damage is part of the weapon not the suit. So to decrease the damage it would require some kind of module. This means you would have to add something to get worse and nobody would do this.
For your Gunner Heavy you could add increased recoil or a slower rotation speed or both instead of the damage reduction. Makes sense, thank you; I will most likely be vying for the Gunner suit just to have a Sidearm. |
Sigbjorn Foerik
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2013.06.22 05:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Samuel Zelik wrote:Sigbjorn Foerik wrote:A damage reduction would be kinda unlogical. The damage is part of the weapon not the suit. So to decrease the damage it would require some kind of module. This means you would have to add something to get worse and nobody would do this.
For your Gunner Heavy you could add increased recoil or a slower rotation speed or both instead of the damage reduction. Makes sense, thank you; I will most likely be vying for the Gunner suit just to have a Sidearm.
Your welcome. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
215
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Posted - 2013.06.22 06:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
I do like that opening points system. I feel like that sums up how I understand the races approaches to war.
Amarr - Heavily Armoured, unrelenting in advance Caldari- Top tier shields with long range missiles Minmatar- Adaptable Shields and Speed Tanking Gallente- Drones, Ammou, and Speed. |
Sigbjorn Foerik
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 06:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:I do like that opening points system. I feel like that sums up how I understand the races approaches to war.
Amarr - Heavily Armoured, unrelenting in advance Caldari- Top tier shields with long range missiles Minmatar- Adaptable Shields and Speed Tanking Gallente- Drones, Ammou, and Speed.
Yes that how they tank in EVE. In DUST it is slightly different at the moment. Just compare the stats and you will see. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Main_Page EVE Wiki http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Main_Page DUST 514 Wiki |
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