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BARDAS
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 17:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
So after playing with a number of alts I have decided that I want my main character to use Scout drop suits because I like the low scan profile and mobility. What i'm wondering is the difference between the two racial suits. I have been using the Minmatar suit thus far and have had no experience with the Gallente Scout suit. I noticed that more people are using the Gallente dropsuit when I play in matches. Is there a reason for this?
I'm planning on making my main Anti-Vehicle and Dual SMG for when there are no vehicles to kill. Not sure which I should pick. Any help figuring this out would be appreciated. Thanks! |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
515
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 18:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Mercenary Pack used to contain the Dragonfly Scout suit, which was a Gallente dropsuit. People who have a Blueprint Original dropsuit will tend to used it, particularly because the Dragonfly Scout suit does not require any skills. When you say most people seem to be using Gallente Scout suits, are they grey in colour? If so, they are using it because it is a BPO. The Basic suit should be darker than the Dragonfly Suit, and the Gallente Scout suits should be lighter in colour. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
140
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 18:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Minmatar vs. Gallente? That's the age-old question. And I shall answer it.
Let's looks at the Racial Bonuses.
Scout Bonus: 5% Reduction to Scan Profile per level. Minmatar Scout Bonus: +5% to melee and Nova Knife Damage per level. Gallente Scout Bonus: +10% to Dropsuit Scan Radius per level.
So looking at those, we can judge on what we want to use, based on our role. But this might not be enough. What if you want to see what'd be better for something that needs speed AND durability? Or you want to make something that will easily close the distance between you and your enemy.
Here are the Speed + eHP Statistics for both of the Scouts. These statistics might be outdated, I'll edit when I confirm it. :)
Gallente: Shield: 100 Armor: 90 Sprint Speed: 7.84 m/s. This is 12% faster than an Assault suit with no modules.
Minmatar: Will Edit In when I find them. Basically, he's less durable but faster. Shield: N/A Armor: N/A Sprint Speed: N/A
Now that we see the most important statistics for a Scout: Let's see how we can put them to use. First question: Where can the bonuses be put to use? A Gallente Scout's bonus can be pretty useful for Sniping. BUT, also keep in mind, it'd make a very good Hunter. If you're looking for reds, a higher Scan Radius can help you find them.
A Minmatar Scout Bonus is useful for CQC. Simple as that. You won't really need Nova Knives or Melee anywhere but. They still have the Scan Profile decrease, as well. However, the low health means that if you head straight on, you'll die a hell of a lot faster. It's better for doing some 'knife-in-the-back' gameplay.
Looking at the Speed of the Scouts, we see that the Minmatar is faster. This will be better for closing distance on your enemy, exactly for CQC. But the Gallente Scout is better for filling a Hunter/Sniper role, by using increased Scan Radius. To give you an idea on the minimap Scan Radius and how it affects gameplay, here you go: http://s23.postimg.org/vzroe12fv/minimap_ranges.jpg
So I hope this helped. if I had to make a suggestion: I like Gallente more. It works for CQC, and speed isn't really a huge decrease. Nova Knives and Melee is a rarely useful tool, unless you can use it perfectly (If you can, props to you!), so Minmatar bonus is useless to me. And the health is a bit better. I'll edit anything missing into here. :) |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
140
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 18:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
I can't tell you how many tabs I had to open to get all that done. And I'm still not finished. |
BARDAS
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 20:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:I can't tell you how many tabs I had to open to get all that done. And I'm still not finished.
Thank you very much. I appreciate all the information. I just got my respec today so I will check the Gallente suit out on my alt before loading up the skills on my main. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
142
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 21:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Glad I could help. I'm always happy to be of service! :)
EDIT: If you want any more information, check out BSoTT (My Corp). I'm on often, and I love to squad with my fellow students. |
Blunt Puffing
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 23:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:
Here are the Speed + eHP Statistics for both of the Scouts. These statistics might be outdated, I'll edit when I confirm it. :)
Gallente: Shield: 70 Armor: 130 Sprint Speed: 7.6 m/s. This is 12% faster than an Assault suit with no modules.
Minmatar: Added. Shield: 100 Armor: 70 Sprint Speed: 7.9 m/s
As a Gallente Scout, I like the ability to choose my fights and still have the ability to have more eHP than a medium frame with no modules. It's a style of playing that's hard to master, but it's still fun. I don't snipe, and I don't go shotgun unless it's a city map (I use an AR). Instead of just chilling near the redline or in some hidden place, I move around the frontlines, call out groups of enemies for my squad mates, start raining hell, then disappear. I've seen people rock a Minmatar suit with no problems, but usually they only use their proto suits. I haven't unlocked my Gallente proto scout, but I know it will be awesome (Yes, I know it only has one high powered slot - I only need one).
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Fist Groinpunch
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 23:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Some terrible, terrible advice in this thread. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
735
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 23:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fist Groinpunch wrote:Some terrible, terrible advice in this thread.
The only really bad advice I see is the idea that a Gallente scout would be better than a Minnie scout for sniping because of the scan radius.
Let me just say this is bunk. Scan radius is significant when you don't have line of sight. Even with the entire suit dedicated to scanning, I'm betting you're looking at less than 70m scan range. This is simply no where near enough range. besides, it doesn't matter because you can see anything that you have LOS on.
Personally, I don't think scouts make very good snipers at all, but that's a topic for a different thread.
The minnie bonus is going to make you stronger at knives/melee. Unless you're going that route, the bonus will not help you. The extra speed will, assuming you learn how to use it.
As far as the scanning bonus on the Gallente, I'd say (having not done this) that you'd have better situational awareness allowing you to call out enemy formations better (you know, scouting) than the Minnie suit. You might also be better at coming up behind people for the kill, but even in the case of the Minnie suit, you can get your scan radius out past 20m which may be enough for that.
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Fist Groinpunch
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 00:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Fist Groinpunch wrote:Some terrible, terrible advice in this thread. The only really bad advice I see is the idea that a Gallente scout would be better than a Minnie scout for sniping because of the scan radius.
They are both terrible for sniping, but the ******-ness of the advice given in this thread actually peaked at the part where one guy was comparing the two light races without even mentioning the high/low slot configurations and the implications that follow. |
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Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
142
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 00:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ok, I was trying to help the person that asked. Don't need to hate on me because I was explaining the things I know.
EDIT: There, added it. Anyone got the slots for Minmatar Scout? |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
142
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 00:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Blunt Puffing wrote:As a Gallente Scout, I like the ability to choose my fights and still have the ability to have more eHP than a medium frame with no modules. It's a style of playing that's hard to master, but it's still fun. I don't snipe, and I don't go shotgun unless it's a city map (I use an AR). Instead of just chilling near the redline or in some hidden place, I move around the frontlines, call out groups of enemies for my squad mates, start raining hell, then disappear. I've seen people rock a Minmatar suit with no problems, but usually they only use their proto suits. I haven't unlocked my Gallente proto scout, but I know it will be awesome (Yes, I know it only has one high powered slot - I only need one).
Thanks for the Stats. They've been insterted. :)
Yea, I like Gallente Scouts. More eHP is not a bad downside for the -0.3 Sprint Speed... But I don't often run scouts. I like to run scouts for the mobility (The speed decrease that the Logistics have makes me feel fat compared to Scouts...), and the stealth. I'm never really good at it though. I'm good at finding playstyles, and learning new ones, but every time I try to flank the enemy, or go out with red-spotting, a Proto-Assault always seems to know where I am.
What would you do with your 1 High Slot? I think I'd try to give myself a small eHP Buff and just put in a Complex Shield Module, but I'm terrible at fitting Scouts. I'm not remembering all of the modules... Hm. Ok, yea. I think Shielding. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
142
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 00:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:The only really bad advice I see is the idea that a Gallente scout would be better than a Minnie scout for sniping because of the scan radius.
Really? If you're sniping, how will you see the Shotgun Scout running up to you? It's so you can make sure nothing is coming up to you. "Scan Precision also does that." Yea, but your base Radius is 10m. If you look at the picture, that's not very far on the minimap. You won't have time to run. |
Mikael Murray
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 00:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
This thread just failed |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
142
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 00:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
How so? |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
737
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 02:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:Buster Friently wrote:The only really bad advice I see is the idea that a Gallente scout would be better than a Minnie scout for sniping because of the scan radius. Really? If you're sniping, how will you see the Shotgun Scout running up to you? It's so you can make sure nothing is coming up to you. "Scan Precision also does that." Yea, but your base Radius is 10m. If you look at the picture, that's not very far on the minimap. You won't have time to run.
Planning for the shotgun scout is kinda a bad idea in a sniper. You should be speccing to be a good sniper, and positioning yourself so you can see anyone coming to get you. Just my opinion. |
BARDAS
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 05:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
I see some comments about the difference in slots between the two proto variants. Is there a big difference as to which is overall more suited to the role I want to play? That being Dual SMG with a Swarm/SMG AV setup as well? Is one more survivable than the other? |
Ferren Devarri
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 06:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
Minmatar Scouts are better assassins. They have more high-slots for shields (and higher shield hp), base speed, and the damage bonus to Nova Knives. If you're the jerk that runs around trolling with knife kills, it's your suit.
Gallente Scouts are better for Squad intel. Boost out your sensor range as far as it will go and let your squadmates take it from there. Drop some active scanners near sensitive areas to cover more ground (even if you die, it'll keep working)
Minmatar Assault and Caldari Logistics tie as the best snipers with 5 high slots for damage amps. Scouts are a no-compete here.
Minmatar Logi is the hacking specialist. |
Blunt Puffing
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 08:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:What would you do with your 1 High Slot? I think I'd try to give myself a small eHP Buff and just put in a Complex Shield Module, but I'm terrible at fitting Scouts. I'm not remembering all of the modules... Hm. Ok, yea. I think Shielding.
I use a Complex Shield Extender. The less damage you take to your armor, the sooner you can go back into sneaky-sneaky mode.
Ferren Devarri wrote:oh, and if you haven't noticed, Gallente scouts are a joke due to the standardized 10m scan range. Unless you can tap out to 50km, odds are you'll never see an enemy coming.
It's not like the Minmatar Scout has a better bonus. They do more damage for melee and nova knifing, but not that many people are going down that route and even fewer are skilled at it. I don't care about the scan radius, as scan radius is a joke by itself. 10 meters on the minimap is nothing.
Proto Minmatar Scouts have 3 high slots and 2 low slots while Proto Gallente Scouts have 1 high slot and 4 low slots. Each scout requires a different set-up as you get different limitations which also include a difference in CPU (Minmatar Scouts have 230 CPU while Gallente Scouts have 250 CPU - when you upgrade your Electronics skill there will be a noticeable difference). With a proto gallente scout, I'm planning on having a basic or enhanced plate, a complex armor repper, a complex kinetic catalyzer, and a complex cardiac regulator in my low slots and one complex shield extender in my high slot. I can still fit a proto weapon, advanced sidearm, equipment and decent grenades. Would be interested in hearing other fits, minmatar or other gallente fittings.
EDIT: Hopefully, scouts will receive some sort of buff as they cannot compete like other protos can. At best, scouts play a support role; wipe out the weak so your squad mates can handle the rest. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
144
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 11:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ferren Devarri wrote:oh, and if you haven't noticed, Gallente scouts are a joke due to the standardized 10m scan range.
Every other suit has a base scan radius of 5m. |
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Fist Groinpunch
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 15:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:Ferren Devarri wrote:oh, and if you haven't noticed, Gallente scouts are a joke due to the standardized 10m scan range. Every other suit has a base scan radius of 5m. That's at least some kind of buff.
Oh my God would you stop posting here. You give advice while not knowing what you're talking about and then you actually tell people things that are outright false. Every other suit does not have a base scan radius of 5 m. It's 10 m.
OP, the most important distinction between the two scour races are the slot loadouts. Gallente has a 1/4 high/low slot combination in its protosuit, and the Minmatar has a 3/2.
Gallente is a terrible combat scout because its low slot heavy. With a complex shield extender in it's only high slot you will only have about 140 total shields. That's your buffer before you start losing armor. Sure, you can add armor plates in the low slots to make it more hardy, but that will eat into the scout's speed. So it's cutting off your nose to spite your face kind of situation. I suppose if you instead slap some complex kinetic cats in the lows you will have a really fast glass cannon build that you can use with a Swarm launcher. You'd be fast enough to get in position to fire on a HAV/LAV and you'd have speed enough to stay away from danger, but you'd have no HP for any kind of mistakes.
Minmatar, however, is a great combat scout. 3/2 slots allow you to place 3 complex shield extenders, bringing your shield buffer up to about 350 HP. 2 complex kinetic cats in the lows, and you have a scout with a large shield buffer that can tank a few hits, retreat at speed to heal up quickly due to the scouts fast shield recharge, and keep doing its thing.
Also, I would advise against dual SMG's. They simply don't have enough range or DPS to compete with an AR or Assault SR, especially if you have half the HP of an assault suit and are trying to go toe to toe with them. AR/ASR with an SMG for back up would get you better results. A shotgun would be even better.
Anyway, good luck with your scout. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1713
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 16:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Simplest difference I can tell you-
Gallente: sniper Minmatar: cqc |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
144
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 21:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Fist Groinpunch wrote:Oh my God would you stop posting here. You give advice while not knowing what you're talking about and then you actually tell people things that are outright false. Every other suit does not have a base scan radius of 5 m. It's 10 m.
Then I was given false information. I apologize. No need to hate because I try to help people. |
BARDAS
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 23:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Minmatar it is! My main only has 2.6 million SP currently so I won't be able to get everything I want yet unfortunately. I leveled up to ADV suit, ADV Shield extenders, SMG Operations to 5, SMG Sharpshooter to 3, SMG Proficiency to 2, Armor Repair to 1 for basic repair. Also leveled up Engineering to 3, Profile Damp to 1. Oh and Grenadier to 1 for Flux nades. I forget if there was anything else I did as well.
Going to try the following fit later for some hit and run. Eventually, I want to level up my swarm launchers and will probably level up Nova Knives as well so I have a few different play styles to choose from. Run/Gun hit n' run, Melee Knifer, and AV. Though I'm going to focus on maxing out the one weapon to start with.
ADV Minmatar Scout ADV Assault SMG x 2 Flux Grenades
Enhanced Shield Extender Basic Shield Extender
Basic Armor Repair Militia Kincat
Thanks for the all the help everyone. Try not to argue amongst yourselves too much |
Fist Groinpunch
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 23:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:Fist Groinpunch wrote:Oh my God would you stop posting here. You give advice while not knowing what you're talking about and then you actually tell people things that are outright false. Every other suit does not have a base scan radius of 5 m. It's 10 m. Then I was given false information. I apologize. No need to hate because I try to help people.
I get that you're trying to help. It's very admirable. But you need to get to know this game a little bit better first, I think. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
750
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 01:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Fist Groinpunch wrote:Artificer Ghost wrote:Ferren Devarri wrote:oh, and if you haven't noticed, Gallente scouts are a joke due to the standardized 10m scan range. Every other suit has a base scan radius of 5m. That's at least some kind of buff. Oh my God would you stop posting here. You give advice while not knowing what you're talking about and then you actually tell people things that are outright false. Every other suit does not have a base scan radius of 5 m. It's 10 m. OP, the most important distinction between the two scour races are the slot loadouts. Gallente has a 1/4 high/low slot combination in its protosuit, and the Minmatar has a 3/2. Gallente is a terrible combat scout because its low slot heavy. With a complex shield extender in it's only high slot you will only have about 140 total shields. That's your buffer before you start losing armor. Sure, you can add armor plates in the low slots to make it more hardy, but that will eat into the scout's speed. So it's cutting off your nose to spite your face kind of situation. I suppose if you instead slap some complex kinetic cats in the lows you will have a really fast glass cannon build that you can use with a Swarm launcher. You'd be fast enough to get in position to fire on a HAV/LAV and you'd have speed enough to stay away from danger, but you'd have no HP for any kind of mistakes. Minmatar, however, is a great combat scout. 3/2 slots allow you to place 3 complex shield extenders, bringing your shield buffer up to about 350 HP. 2 complex kinetic cats in the lows, and you have a scout with a large shield buffer that can tank a few hits, retreat at speed to heal up quickly due to the scouts fast shield recharge, and keep doing its thing. Also, I would advise against dual SMG's. They simply don't have enough range or DPS to compete with an AR or Assault SR, especially if you have half the HP of an assault suit and are trying to go toe to toe with them. AR/ASR with an SMG for back up would get you better results. A shotgun would be even better. Anyway, good luck with your scout.
You could potentially go for reppers in the low slots, but you'd still be pretty glass cannony :) |
Ferren Devarri
ARES.inc
22
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 04:05:00 -
[27] - Quote
Minmatar Scout: AR or Shotgun, Nova Knife, Melee damage and shield mods, and an active scanner to search for targets.
Gallente Scout: Sniper Rifle or AR, Submachine gun, 1-2 shield mods, range amps, and, yep, an active scanner
Active scanners do what both Scouts should do by default, and that's detect targets/threats. Considering that all dropsuits only have a 10m base, the scan profile reduction is more or less useless. For a seonse of scale, 10m is about the size of a hybrid cannon emplacement. You are dead before that minimap shows any functionally useful data.. unless they're lit up with a scanner.
Hardcore snipers go for a caldari medium frame loaded up on damage mods. |
BARDAS
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 00:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ending up training a level of Nova Knives to check it out and they are quite interesting. My attempts met with either great success, pulled off 5 kills by sneaking around and stabbing them in the back while my team was engaging a group from the front, and also great failure - back peddlers laughing and shooting me in the face.
I do have a quick question I may as well ask here instead of creating a whole new thread. Do the Nova Knives make you run faster? It feels like I run a little faster while I have them equipped. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
146
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 02:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
Yea... I like Nova Knives, they're fun. But my playstyle forbids me from using them. Glad you like it though. :D |
Ghost Kaisar
Intrepidus XI Omega Commission
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.23 03:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
BARDAS wrote:Minmatar it is! My main only has 2.6 million SP currently so I won't be able to get everything I want yet unfortunately. I leveled up to ADV suit, ADV Shield extenders, SMG Operations to 5, SMG Sharpshooter to 3, SMG Proficiency to 2, Armor Repair to 1 for basic repair. Also leveled up Engineering to 3, Profile Damp to 1. Oh and Grenadier to 1 for Flux nades. I forget if there was anything else I did as well. Going to try the following fit later for some hit and run. Eventually, I want to level up my swarm launchers and will probably level up Nova Knives as well so I have a few different play styles to choose from. Run/Gun hit n' run, Melee Knifer, and AV. Though I'm going to focus on maxing out the one weapon to start with. ADV Minmatar Scout ADV Assault SMG x 2 Flux Grenades Enhanced Shield Extender Basic Shield Extender Basic Armor Repair Militia Kincat Thanks for the all the help everyone. Try not to argue amongst yourselves too much
I am running a CQC Min Scout with SMG's and Knives. This man gave me some great advice for when you try Nova Knifing. Here is the advice he gave me.
mollerz wrote:There should be sprint/charging. Why wouldn't there be? You need complex kin cats and endurance mods in your low slots for this to work, ss well as lv 5 minja scout skill. It also helps to only use IshNoks. Seidearms dam mods are nice too! My advice (FYI this is from the perspective of a minja suit and would love to hear someone's take on a ganja scout), do not slash at them as they are running. run behind them until they exhaust their stamina. Run close to them and pay attention to where they are likely to turn and face. For example, if there is a battle going on to the left as you follow, stay towards the right so if they turn you will see them doing it and can adjust before you hit their peripheral vision, which is severely gimped in this game. Once they slow down they can't jump or run from you. Your movement walk speed will eclipse theirs, and if you did it right, you will be very close to them with stamina left over. walk sideways and and charge slash their side as you begin to pass. So if they are turing left walk sideways past them and charge slash. This way you will definitely hit them, and they won't know until it is too late. and you can follow up slash him down if it is a heavy. now, if they catch on to you, you should have more stamina to jump and spin so you land at their side facing them. This is important, tricky, but it makes it very hard for them to track and shoot you, You need to charge when you are in the air so when you land you hit them. Most times it will turn them into a blood burst, but if they are still hanging on, they still have to turn to face you. If you did it right, you should have them directly in front of you ready to follow up slash them down. The above tactic is good for jumping into a group of enemies as well. slash fest And if all that doesn't work, ditch the knives. bust out your sidearm of choice and go to town on them as you orbit. Too many times, people stick to swinging with their knives. you blew it, accept it, and go to guns. if there are multiple enemies, try putting one guy in front of you as cover. And good luck. it's an honorable death happy hunting!
He reccomends using Proto Knives and all that fancy jazz, but you can still use his advice with all knives.
My advice? If you are going to Nova Knife, get ADV ASAP. Basic Knives are kinda bad, and you will need all of the DMG you can get. ADV knives will deal enough damage to one-shot anybody not tanking shields or armor. |
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