Yeah, it really frustrates me when people think they're underpowered. You're not supposed to be invincible in them. And well, i'm just trying to start a relevant discussion so people can actually end up agreeing.

First of all, thanks for being so hostile, this community certainly needs more of that.

Now about SP. It shouldn't matter if you don't have any skillpoints. You're supposed to have an advantage with more skillpoints yes, but there's not supposed to be such a big difference that it's impossible to take out a HAV. That you've spent 13mil skillpoints and 2 million isk on tanks doesn't make you entitled to win anytime over anyone who spent less skillpoints than you at AV stuff. Skill is supposed to come into play, but it just doesn't matter when it comes to the HAV's.

I know a friend of mine doesn't want to play this game due to how unbalanced tanks are.

There's no universal rule that says it has to be that way. Spending more isk should give you an advantage, not make you invincible.

But it never ******* mattters. If it doesn't die to a single guy with ****** AV gear, it's overpowered.

If we ever get HAVs worth driving, GD will be drowning in TANKS514 threads again overnight.

No you're not being sarcastic. Stop doing personal attacks and actually argue against me.

And I don't think it's wrong for a 600 isk setup to be able to take out a 2.1million isk HAV. If a 600 isk setup can take out a 200k isk proto setup, by being better at aiming, I don't see why it's wrong for a militia AV person to be able to take out a 2.1million isk tank with superior tactics. As i keep saying

But right now it's outright impossible, the HAV can just eat all the bullets and tank it away. In fact a swarm launcher only removes around 1/8 of a HAV's armor/shield. Which means you'd have to have about five people to take down a tank. Meanwhile those five people can't counter the other foot troops, because swarmlaunchers and forge guns are horrible against them. It's incredibly easy to take out the AV troops, while they're trying to take out the tanks. Forge gun troops are completely immobile while charging, making it impossible to defend themselves. Meanwhile the HAV is incredibly mobile, and can just drive around the corner and do a armor/shield rep, if the damage is really a problem at all.

This is really frustrating for new players. Try making more people play dust when they basically are totally useless against tanks for the first few months. Yes. First few months. If you're supposed to counter HAV's with 1million sp setups, it'll take more than a month in passive sp just for the AV setup. But people don't want to have to level up in anti-tank, just to be able to have the slightest chance against a HAV.

The sole reason for this thread is stating that it's not user error that's the reason. If i get a full forge gun clip or more into a tank, don't I deserve to win?

The tank only has to hit me for about 3 seconds for me to die. Meanwhile the tank is much more mobile.

It really, really shouldn't require more than 1mil skillpoints in AV to just consider taking down a tank.

As for the people who keep saying teamwork, that doesn't work either. I've been standing next to two people, all shooting swarmlaunchers at once at a tank, and it just drove behind a structure and repaired, because it's so mobile. 2 seconds later we get shot by infantry, because we don't have any proper weapons against them.

There is no actual argument as you have failed to understand the game mechanics. He doesn't have to hold your hand or give you a history lesson. Your argument is this: I want to solo a tank ( that possibly has three people in it), without any investment into how I try to take it down. My answer is this: get into a rail gun turret on the map. This is your only solution. TBH you deserve the sarcasm/personal attacks. Most of the time it takes a full squad to keep 1 tank alive.

It seems that it's impossible to take down a proper fitted HAV.

They stomp infantry so quickly that often it's impossible to even get a single AV grenade out.

But it doesn't matter much, because the HAV's can anyway tank 5+ AV grenades.

The militia forge gun. The standard AV weapons are a complete joke. They can't take out a HAV by any chance at all. I once shot a full forge gun clip and threw 3 av grenades at an armor tanked HAV, and he must have laughed as he drove a little away, tanked the damage I had done in a few seconds, and killed me.

Do I really have to spec up in AV to take out a tank?

I don't have to spec up in anything to take out a protosuit, I've done that many times with a militia fit.

But HAV's can take a ridiculous amount of damage from standard AV weapons, drive a little away, out of range of AV grenades, in about three seconds. After that he just tanks the damage as he shoots you. I often see people driving tanks with 15+/0 kd ratios.

AV weapons are supposed to counter HAV's and LAV's. Not be laughed at, as they just tank the damage and shoot you. (militia HAV's are not thought of in this entry, only standard or higher)

1.In other games, such as planetside 2, the tanks can actually be hurt by normal weapons. In dust only AV works, and doesn't work very well

2.Again why shouldn't we be able to do any damage with standard or militia gear? You shouldn't have to spec into AV, it should just make it easier.

3.No. Without acceleration taken into account, the tank moves 93.75km/h, which is 26m/s. The av grenades radius is 6m.

4.I try not to stand in the open, but sometimes it's the only way to reach the tank. Especially when you spawn in the open. Again, somewhat more a spawn issue than the tank itself, but you get the point.

5. I think it's stupid. Make the tanks much cheaper, and nerf them. Makes for more balanced gameplay overall.


1.I'm not sure what you mean by "GTFOT" besides you're trying to tell me you're angry because we're arguing on the internet.

2.Personally not a tank driver, so I don't know. I don't have 14 million skillpoints so I can try out one of these crazy setups.

3.Yes my experience is based on militia av, because i can't afford anything else sp wise. The next thing i will do is for sure to spec up in AV, but in the meanwhile, what do I do? Still, what do new players do? Does everyone have to spec up in AV to have a chance?

1. Yes it is. If your dps is lower than the tanks armor/shield repair per second, it is impossible.
2. It's not hard, it's impossible alone, unless standing next to a supply depot. I've used a forge gun clip and all my AV grenades uncountable times. Also I've tried flux against shield tanks, and they didn't do any significant damage.
3. Indeed it was.
4. I've tried that, but most often they are just so fast that they drive out of range really quickly. That's what i mean when speaking about mobility btw.
5. Yes, as I've stated before, I don't have anything else.
6. I guess it's fine that it's possible with proto, but it should also be possible with standard or militia, granted it will be much harder.
7. skipping this one.
8. But he just turns around the corner and he's gone. AV infantry is really slow, while tanks are really fast. I find that odd.
9. Of course.
10. Yes it is. And I'd like you to answer it.

I'm just reading through this thread and not liking what Im seeing.

Current Dust forum goers leave this guy alone, stop being douche bags, just explain to him this is Dust, it does things differently, and HTFU is something adopted from our game designers.

Exer after reading first few pages I had to stop and reply:
You sound like a complete douche canoe.
That is all.