DUST Search - Are HAV's overpowered?

Benari Kalidima wrote:

No you're not being sarcastic. Stop doing personal attacks and actually argue against me.

And I don't think it's wrong for a 600 isk setup to be able to take out a 2.1million isk HAV. If a 600 isk setup can take out a 200k isk proto setup, by being better at aiming, I don't see why it's wrong for a militia AV person to be able to take out a 2.1million isk tank with superior tactics. As i keep saying

But right now it's outright impossible, the HAV can just eat all the bullets and tank it away. In fact a swarm launcher only removes around 1/8 of a HAV's armor/shield. Which means you'd have to have about five people to take down a tank. Meanwhile those five people can't counter the other foot troops, because swarmlaunchers and forge guns are horrible against them. It's incredibly easy to take out the AV troops, while they're trying to take out the tanks. Forge gun troops are completely immobile while charging, making it impossible to defend themselves. Meanwhile the HAV is incredibly mobile, and can just drive around the corner and do a armor/shield rep, if the damage is really a problem at all.

This is really frustrating for new players. Try making more people play dust when they basically are totally useless against tanks for the first few months. Yes. First few months. If you're supposed to counter HAV's with 1million sp setups, it'll take more than a month in passive sp just for the AV setup. But people don't want to have to level up in anti-tank, just to be able to have the slightest chance against a HAV.


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Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1783	Posted - 2013.06.17 15:01:00 - [1] - Quote HAV are a joke right now. No standard tanks but advanced and prototype AV available should sum things up. If not, look at the price tag on enforcer tanks for what they do. Oh, and that zoom doesn't do anything when the game's rendering can't keep up with it.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1783	Posted - 2013.06.17 15:15:00 - [2] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Cosgar wrote: HAV are a joke right now. No standard tanks but advanced and prototype AV available should sum things up. If not, look at the price tag on enforcer tanks for what they do. Oh, and that zoom doesn't do anything when the game's rendering can't keep up with it. But it never ***** mattters. If it doesn't die to a single guy with **** AV gear, it's overpowered. If we ever get HAVs worth driving, GD will be drowning in TANKS514 threads again overnight. Player ignorance it the problem. I've said this tons of times and I don't feel like going through my post history again to find the quote, so I'll paraphrase it: The core problem with HAV and AV was infantry never took AV seriously. While they were focused on being anti-infantry and ignoring AV, HAV pilots invested all their SP into tanks. In a game where narrowing down into specific specializations rewards you, tanks were nearly unkillable because AV was ignored. If something is powerful, has an effective counter that exists, yet people ignore it, is it truly OP? Tankers got to be the best at what they were while infantry complained, wondering why they couldn't kill a Segaris or Surya with militia swarm launchers and forge guns, or even try to solo one with AV grenades and in the end CCP nerfed tankers for playing the game correctly. If that doesn't show how balancing is a joke in this game, I don't know what is.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1787	Posted - 2013.06.17 15:19:00 - [3] - Quote Benari Kalidima wrote: No you're not being sarcastic. Stop doing personal attacks and actually argue against me. And I don't think it's wrong for a 600 isk setup to be able to take out a 2.1million isk HAV. If a 600 isk setup can take out a 200k isk proto setup, by being better at aiming, I don't see why it's wrong for a militia AV person to be able to take out a 2.1million isk tank with superior tactics. As i keep saying But right now it's outright impossible, the HAV can just eat all the bullets and tank it away. In fact a swarm launcher only removes around 1/8 of a HAV's armor/shield. Which means you'd have to have about five people to take down a tank. Meanwhile those five people can't counter the other foot troops, because swarmlaunchers and forge guns are horrible against them. It's incredibly easy to take out the AV troops, while they're trying to take out the tanks. Forge gun troops are completely immobile while charging, making it impossible to defend themselves. Meanwhile the HAV is incredibly mobile, and can just drive around the corner and do a armor/shield rep, if the damage is really a problem at all. This is really frustrating for new players. Try making more people play dust when they basically are totally useless against tanks for the first few months. Yes. First few months. If you're supposed to counter HAV's with 1million sp setups, it'll take more than a month in passive sp just for the AV setup. But people don't want to have to level up in anti-tank, just to be able to have the slightest chance against a HAV. History repeats itself again...
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1793	Posted - 2013.06.17 16:03:00 - [4] - Quote St Evilsbitch wrote: There is no actual argument as you have failed to understand the game mechanics. He doesn't have to hold your hand or give you a history lesson. Your argument is this: I want to solo a tank ( that possibly has three people in it), without any investment into how I try to take it down. My answer is this: get into a rail gun turret on the map. This is your only solution. TBH you deserve the sarcasm/personal attacks. Most of the time it takes a full squad to keep 1 tank alive. Hit the nail on the head. +1 Benari Kalidima wrote: No, I don't misunderstand the game mechanics. In other games, like Halo, or Planetside 2, it isn't impossible for anti-vehicle infantry to take out tanks solo, so why should it in Dust? Your argument falls flat because this isn't Halo or Planetside 2. It's not impossible for AV to take out vehicles in Dust 514, you're being lazy and not speccing into its effective counter. What's even more sad about this argument is that AV is a steal for how much ISK/SP you have to invest compared to how much tankers have to invest and like I said before, everything tips into the favor of AV right now anyway. All vehicles, including HAV took a %20-25 nerf to their powergrid to the point that they can't even equip proper modules, HAV lost their prototype tanks in exchange for glass cannons which are essentially militia tanks with a higher price tag, but more slots and hacked EXO AV grenades (prototype grenades requiring 0 SP) went on sale for a whole week when Uprising came out. Seeing you complain about something that's already been nerfed into the ground is like kicking a puppy. Why not complain about the MD while you're at it, I heard it got a stealth ammo buff...
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1794	Posted - 2013.06.17 16:13:00 - [5] - Quote Serious question OP: Do you think heavies are OP as well? This will act as a good measuring stick for how serious we should be taking you.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1794	Posted - 2013.06.17 16:15:00 - [6] - Quote Benari Kalidima wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Yea dude seriously, it is a TANK it isn't supposed to be easy to take out. To me this is just [un]common sense. It's funny how everyone is interpreting me as saying it should be easy. All I say is that it shouldn't be impossible. And it is right now for players not leveled up in AV. Even if they're multiple people attacking a tank. As I've said before, been unable to take out a tank being three people. Whether this is really a question of matchmaking can also be discussed, since a player with 14mil skillpoints really shouldn't be in games with people fifteen times less. What you're asking for is the equivalent of someone with militia starter fits to be able to easily take down someone in full prototype. Think about that for a second and let it settle in.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1800	Posted - 2013.06.17 17:26:00 - [7] - Quote You should really stop trying to compare how a game mechanic works in a different game to support your argument, it's not helping.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2024	Posted - 2013.06.21 20:29:00 - [8] - Quote Ferren Devarri wrote: You better put on your gambling face before whipping out a prototank in an instant match. Only CCP would price a full loadout higher than winning payouts. If you win, you get some money. If you lose, your ass winds up in the strip club. What proto tank? All I see are militia, standard, and glass cannons.