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Role of an HMG Heavy?

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D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 187	Posted - 2013.06.17 06:24:00 - [1] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Point defense, if you want to be running gunning and leading the charge youll need to give up your health and HMG and go for a smaller weapon and an assault suit HMG can't do point defense because it has high dispersion, low damage, long reload the suit has horrible scanners (can't detect another heavy on the map behind you), and turn speed is poor you can't do CQC. and think about this logical question: "how can you defend when you can't successfully attack in the very same area?" there is no way the HMG can excel in an area defending and in the very same area on offense do horribly. i.e. if i attack enemies in a narrow corribor as a heavy i die, how can i defend this same corridor from attacking enemies if i can't do well in it on offense. its illiogical. the hmg does less damage per shot than the SMG with half as many advantages and about the same optimal range. its a joke.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 188	Posted - 2013.06.17 06:41:00 - [2] - Quote i already have some threads on the subject: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=81725&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82270&find=unread lance 2ballzstrong has a thread as well: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73100&find=unread mike pole a play i imagine similar to yourself had similar concerns: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=79438&find=unread my main point with regards to the balance HMGs have to have against everything else is that balance is 2nd place to purpose. or rather, when balancing the purpose of whatever item your balancing must be considered. why? because your approach to the balance must not make the item lose its purpose. right now ARs out gun HMGs in just about every respect, the HMG isnt even balanced with or on par with the AR but for examples sake, lets say they were.... (HMG does less dps than a militia AR with half the accuracy and 2x the dispersion) what is the purpose of an AR? multiple purpose weapon, jack of all trads master of none. what is the purpose of an HMG? anti personell, supression, fire power clearly the HMG should excel in the area of its purpose, its not supposed to be a versitle weapon, its supposed to have raw power through fire rate, dps, damage per shot, and ammo capacity. when CCP tried to balance the HMG they made it pointless because you can do everything a HMG can do better with an AR, at 2x the range. i recommend that the HMG gets a damage and range buff to about the same damage and range as a fully automatica AR of the same class (STD, ADV, PROTO). before you scream OP in girl shrills, remember, everything else about the HMG will remain the same, the reload, over heating, high dispersion and high recoil high damage drop off. so the standard hmg should do 31 hp per shot. this way the HMG can proper supress the enemy. also, you must have weaponry lvl 5 and put extra points into alot of things for the HMG it must reflect the effort required to attain it. inaddition, the heavy suit should get the following slight buffs: 15% increase in run and turning speed (still slower than eveeryone else, but fast enough to keep up with squad, and hit targets). 30%-45% resistance to small arms fire (this is in the description of the suit, and the heavy is a slow bullet sponge should be good at absorbing the bullets. this may take the form of a skill OR blanket amount per suit lvl i.e. STD HVY suit = 15%, ADV 25%, proto 45%... or a sprarte skill for heavies only for resistance to damage to shields and armor,, etc)
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 188	Posted - 2013.06.17 06:45:00 - [3] - Quote bigolenuts wrote: Just cause trouble with your heavy. I use a few different fits and use him as an assault, rushing type. Most times if you see me behind a wall or box I am reloading or calling in an OB. Standard Proto...2x Complex Damage Mods, 1 Complex Shield Regulator, 1 Complex Armor Repairer, 1 complex Catalyzer with Boundless for all terrain, Six Kin for close quarters and Freedom for open range and holding guys at bay. I have also been known to use a similiar fit with a Ishukone Forge Gun. Try the heavy with no armor or shields and increase your speed and mobility. Try mixing it up a bit with a mix of Catalyzers and that stuff that allows you to sprint longer. lol..I forget the name of it..It is green. My KDR is #@$@, but I do not worry about that. I am playing to have fun and hangout. Good luck! that fit costs over 200,000 isk and a free blue print dragon fly suit with a toxin smg can end that as soon as it starts. the forgun gets things done though. because CCP doesnt care about vehicles...lol
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 189	Posted - 2013.06.17 07:03:00 - [4] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: D legendary hero wrote: i already have some threads on the subject: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=81725&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82270&find=unread lance 2ballzstrong has a thread as well: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73100&find=unread mike pole a play i imagine similar to yourself had similar concerns: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=79438&find=unread my main point with regards to the balance HMGs have to have against everything else is that balance is 2nd place to purpose. or rather, when balancing the purpose of whatever item your balancing must be considered. why? because your approach to the balance must not make the item lose its purpose. right now ARs out gun HMGs in just about every respect, the HMG isnt even balanced with or on par with the AR but for examples sake, lets say they were.... (HMG does less dps than a militia AR with half the accuracy and 2x the dispersion) what is the purpose of an AR? multiple purpose weapon, jack of all trads master of none. what is the purpose of an HMG? anti personell, supression, fire power clearly the HMG should excel in the area of its purpose, its not supposed to be a versitle weapon, its supposed to have raw power through fire rate, dps, damage per shot, and ammo capacity. when CCP tried to balance the HMG they made it pointless because you can do everything a HMG can do better with an AR, at 2x the range. i recommend that the HMG gets a damage and range buff to about the same damage and range as a fully automatica AR of the same class (STD, ADV, PROTO). before you scream OP in girl shrills, remember, everything else about the HMG will remain the same, the reload, over heating, high dispersion and high recoil high damage drop off. so the standard hmg should do 31 hp per shot. this way the HMG can proper supress the enemy. also, you must have weaponry lvl 5 and put extra points into alot of things for the HMG it must reflect the effort required to attain it. inaddition, the heavy suit should get the following slight buffs: 15% increase in run and turning speed (still slower than eveeryone else, but fast enough to keep up with squad, and hit targets). 30%-45% resistance to small arms fire (this is in the description of the suit, and the heavy is a slow bullet sponge should be good at absorbing the bullets. this may take the form of a skill OR blanket amount per suit lvl i.e. STD HVY suit = 15%, ADV 25%, proto 45%... or a sprarte skill for heavies only for resistance to damage to shields and armor,, etc) So basically you want to be able to "suppress" (kill) anything you see and only maybe possibly sometimes die to tanks who you can also forge into the ground? no, i want to be able to keep up with the ARs that do just as much or more damage than militia tank blaster cannons. :) (yes, if you do the calculations ARs can keep up to the dps and some of them damage per shot of a militia tank blaster cannon. dnt BS me.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 189	Posted - 2013.06.17 07:13:00 - [5] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Point defense, if you want to be running gunning and leading the charge youll need to give up your health and HMG and go for a smaller weapon and an assault suit HMG can't do point defense because it has high dispersion, low damage, long reload the suit has horrible scanners (can't detect another heavy on the map behind you), and turn speed is poor you can't do CQC. t he hmg does less damage per shot than the SMG with half as many advantages and about the same optimal range. its a joke.[/quote] Delta 749 wrote: Assaulting it means having to make through the corridor and defeat the enemies on the other side, simple enough Defending it means repelling those attackers which is where the HMG shine, you see the defender has the advantage in terrain, they do not need to bottle neck and here is where this is fundamentally flawed. we are speaking about the same area in offense and defense. if i can't clear the hall of the same enemies on offense, i can't do it on defense. i have tried it in practice it doesnt work, unless of course its a team of noobs. Delta 749 wrote: Seriously though, all this field and angle of fire stuff is FPS 101 stuff again, this assumes you have the accuracy and turning speed/aiming ability to hit said targets in you field of view, with a heavy suit you cant keep up with an enemy strafing back and forth even in the same spot (lit. try it with a friend try to track them with a milita have suit and have them in any other suit strafe in the same spot.) Delta 749 wrote: , if you think a heavy can just trundle on into enemy fire but caldari logis, and in fact many suits except unspeced logis, and scouts can charge into my HMG fire and utterly destroy or heavily damage me as a heavy. lol and again they can strafe i can't. Delta 749 wrote: then you are playing it wrong, the HMG heavy is a moveable turret and your own skill as a player will need to carry you through its weak spots and find ways to compensate for them its a moveable turret with none of the damage, range, or ehp of a turret. but it has all the draw backs. and again ARs can do pretty much the same damage as a tank blaster cannon. so... yeah... it is illogical. needs buff and stuff
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 189	Posted - 2013.06.17 07:20:00 - [6] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: D legendary hero wrote: [quote=Rogatien Merc][quote=D legendary hero] logical argument dnt BS me. Do people ever take clip size and reload speed into their calculations or is just "Sperg sperg sperg AR is OP cuz it killed me sperg sperg sperg" ARs reload faster than most weapons in the game, without any skills put into them. about 2.5~3seconds. full auto ARs have a clip size of 60 per clip, the militia variat can do 1860 damage per clip. ARs without skill points in the skills have almost no recoil, making headshots too easy. ARs never over heat (you neeed to fire more than 62 bullets without stopping to over heat, and no damage is take when it happens, recovery is less than a second) normallt AR users spam things are OP when stuff kills them. i.e. the LAV ran me over, you could just get AV grenades which can destroy tanks, but instead they just yell OP AR users think flaylocks are OP when really flaylocks are extremely niche and need to be used close range, (or if you stand completely still at midrange i can hit you with them). you only get 3 in a clip it only has a 2.om blast radius max and hit detection makes it so that its still a 50/50 even with proto flaylocks. gt at me
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 189	Posted - 2013.06.17 07:24:00 - [7] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Alright Im calling it now, you are just a bad player blaming your tools ^^this is your rebuttal? i have over 5million SP in heavy suits and HMGs. I am part of the 1armed bandits as a high ranking member. i have played against notable corps and made a name for myself. still if you want to see if im a bad player, add me as contact and play on my team, or we can get two squads, go to opposite sides of a merc battle and i can show you my skill. to be fair ill only use std heavy gear. i dnt care whether you accept the invitation or not, but its there. i am willing ready and capable of proving my point. the weapon is inferior. period. the suit is weak period.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 189	Posted - 2013.06.17 07:31:00 - [8] - Quote i get my fair share of hate mail about flaylocks...lol nonetheless, im not pro LAVs, but if 6 people on a team of sixteen carried AV nades with them, they could put an end to wanna bes, then only devoute LAV noobs will still drive around. i see some people getting the idea though alot of proto swarm launchers are around now. as per the tanks, well, if you bought a 2.5 million isk proto tank with proto mods, specs, do you think its fair that one guy with 30,000 isk worth of AV grenades (proto ones are that much i believe) should be able to destroy it with 3 grenades? its unbalanced right now. why? because: AV is better on tanks than it is on LAVs.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 189	Posted - 2013.06.17 07:35:00 - [9] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Ill be in game in about 15 minutes though if you want to squad up and run a skirmish match or two actually sounds cool. i'm on the east coast, i was checking the forums and was about to sleep, but i'd be more than happy to squad up with you tommorrow. whats a good time for you? im on the east coast so its 3.34 aM here, but at 1:00pm i can be on and squad up. how's that sound?
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 189	Posted - 2013.06.17 07:37:00 - [10] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Legend - I still don't get why you think HMG is low DPS. L1 is your friend - learn to use it. And even then don't just stand still accepting every bullet fired at you. HMG in good hands with smart movement choices and is still dangerous - we just can't be agressive because of lack of range. And our PC presence had diminished greatly since all our roles functions can be handled better by a scout shotgun with remote explosives. We're only good for hiding behind terrain and calling for back up or holding chokes. for the first 100 bullets ADS doesnt change accuracy, its better to fire and then at full spin up ADS to to keep the initial mobility, before completely becoming a turret.

D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 189	Posted - 2013.06.17 07:41:00 - [11] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Ill be in game in about 15 minutes though if you want to squad up and run a skirmish match or two actually sounds cool. i'm on the east coast, i was checking the forums and was about to sleep, but i'd be more than happy to squad up with you tommorrow. whats a good time for you? im on the east coast so its 3.34 aM here, but at 1:00pm i can be on and squad up. how's that sound? MST here and 1 pm EST is too early in the day for me How is between 8 and 9 pm MST for you? wait is MST = EST + 2hours? if so, then 8 - 9 pm MST is 10 - 11pm EST. yeah, i can do that. do you want to join my squad or i join your squad a combination, etc...? imma add you as a contact, and add me so we can squad up, and settle this matter like gentlemen.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 189	Posted - 2013.06.17 07:53:00 - [12] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Delta 749 wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Ill be in game in about 15 minutes though if you want to squad up and run a skirmish match or two actually sounds cool. i'm on the east coast, i was checking the forums and was about to sleep, but i'd be more than happy to squad up with you tommorrow. whats a good time for you? im on the east coast so its 3.34 aM here, but at 1:00pm i can be on and squad up. how's that sound? MST here and 1 pm EST is too early in the day for me How is between 8 and 9 pm MST for you? wait is MST = EST + 2hours? if so, then 8 - 9 pm MST is 10 - 11pm EST. yeah, i can do that. do you want to join my squad or i join your squad a combination, etc...? imma add you as a contact, and add me so we can squad up, and settle this matter like gentlemen. Yeah its a two hour difference, and either squad formation is fine, if you are running with other people at the time though Ill join your squad since I usually run solo its a deal epic sceneneending hand shake
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 190	Posted - 2013.06.17 08:02:00 - [13] - Quote [quote=Benari Kalidima]Okay people, some cold hard math facts I've done; Heavy Machine Gun DPS:600 Accuracy Rating 61.5 Clip Size: 425 Damage on Clip:7650 Damage Before Overheat: 4200 Assault Rifle DPS:425 Accuracy Rating: 55.5 Clip size:60 Damage on Clip:2040 Damage before overheat is calculated by assuming overheat is at 100 (overheat per second is 14). That makes 7 seconds of fire, which at 600 dps is 4200 damage. I'll be willing to include reload times in the calculations if you want. dnt forget the dispersion calculation. heavies have approximately 35% dispersion. so a target standing completely still at your optimal range only 65% of your rounds will hit, therefore, 600 - (600 35%) =600 - 210 = 390dps the AR has about a 5-% dispersion 425 - (4255%) = 425 - 21.25 = 403.75 when you factor in the high mobility, and longer range with limited damage fall off, compared to the HMG having hard fall off the dps is better on the AR. ultimately, the AR can put more rounds on target and therefore most enemies can see the 425dps. where as an HMG has 35% dispersion on a stationary target, when strafing is factored inaddition to the low turn speed, dps becomes much less. inaddition, although this is not related to dps but mobility, any suit using an AR other than heavy, can choose to disengage at anytime, where as a heavy commited to battle must win or will die.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 190	Posted - 2013.06.17 08:12:00 - [14] - Quote hooc order wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Alright Im calling it now, you are just a bad player blaming your tools Sadly i think you are right. i'd like to see you put down your duvole assault rifle and try using a shotgun, a mass drive an HMG... lets see how good you'd do. you have a baseless argument so now your engaging in baseless attacks on my person. you have never played me in this game, at least none that you can recall. therefore, this statement hooc order wrote: Sadly i think you are right. is just as baseless as your argument. case closed.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 190	Posted - 2013.06.17 08:23:00 - [15] - Quote cover? lol, you obviously have never played heavy, or never played good plays, any good player will use your cover against you by vaulting it and taking shots at you until your to weak to defend your self, the low turn speed makes it impossible to hit your moving target that close, from behind cover, (if you have n=done this try it ive done it, and seen other do it to me in the heavy suit.) at range well they dnt even need cover as you cant hit them. cover of course increase longevity, but needless to say its difficult to effectvely use over as a heavy.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 197	Posted - 2013.06.17 21:55:00 - [16] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: I dont run and gun... i Advance lol D think we'll have to squad up a on a weekend or somethin (UK) cos i disagree with you too lol. HMG seem in an ok place to me (still needs a little more range). Even if half the stuff your asking for comes in... well im going to start feeling bad for the red dots that can be arranged. im going to add you as contact too
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 197	Posted - 2013.06.17 21:56:00 - [17] - Quote Kitten Empress wrote: Void Echo wrote: i laugh a little every time I see ASSAULTERS say what OTHER CLASSES are for. Ehhm, CCP said it themselves. HMG's are for point defense. ^^blaster installations are for point defense
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 197	Posted - 2013.06.17 22:08:00 - [18] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: The HMG was never meant to be used as an offensive weapon, at least not for quick assaults, it is meant for long sieges when employed in an offensive roll. It was designed to be used as a defensive weapon though. Used to repel enemies trying to capture objectives and keep key map positions under your teams control. I will agree that it needs a buff, though, it should be in the above stated manners, not a run n' gun class. exactly, which is why i recommended that all other stats stay reltively the same. even if the HMG had the same range as an AR the heavy suit wouldnt be able to advance fast enough to keep you within that range. HMG is not point defense, nor is it really for offense. its a versitle weapon within the boundries of supression i have my best sucess when using it like this although as stated earlier it needs a serious buff. using it as supression, i can defend a point if need be, or if with my team taking an objective, i can supress enemies advancing on them. supression protects your team/squad, it defends, access points, hallways, it prevents enemies from crossing open areas, it puts ARs under pressure. the idea is suppresion, putting large amounts of ammo in the air against enemies to stop their advance, or help your team advance/reposition. supression can be offensive or defensive depending on your teams location and objectives. but for supression to work you need to do hgh damage. yet the slow mobility makes it difficult to attack with (therefore, it can not be used on offense even if all my suggestions were implimented). if you think of a heavy as the infantry size version of a tank things will become clearer. tanks are great infantry supression weapons, and can help advance the frontline, BUT if a tank heads too far out infront of the squad it could easily be destroyed by AV, tanks move slow (not so slow that it can't move however), and are generally everyones target. tanks have resistances to damage. tanks live longer when with a squad. (of course tanks ca be used to over run positions but heavies can't and arent meant to do that. this is the biggest difference between a tank and a heavy.)
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 197	Posted - 2013.06.17 22:13:00 - [19] - Quote Kitten Empress wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: Kitten Empress wrote: Void Echo wrote: i laugh a little every time I see ASSAULTERS say what OTHER CLASSES are for. Ehhm, CCP said it themselves. HMG's are for point defense. CCP is wrong. OR let me put it this way... HMG's are for point defence... it just might be that the point im defending is over there... where the red dots are standing... How are CCP wrong if this is their game and they decide what role to give to something? Even if it isn't balanced right, CCP wants this weapon to work for point defense, whether you like it or not . CCP made the TAR do more dps than a Tank blaster turret. CCP said logi's are for repairing, etc, why do i find caldri logis with 900+ ehp running around? CCP said you can customize and create your own soldier. so, why are you pigeon holing the heavy suit, but nothing else? (hint: see the E3 video CCP released for dust, especially the part about sniping in a heavy suit...lol) CCP said in the description of the heavy suit, it was designed to be resistant to concentrated small arms fire. so, why do i get inst-killed by militia ARs, which as i have explaind do more Edps (where e = effective) than an HMG? CCP said that the HMG in the discription is supposed to drill holes through enemies in the line of fire. so, why do i need to burn 100 bullets to take out assaults charging into my gun?
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 197	Posted - 2013.06.17 22:16:00 - [20] - Quote Zyrus Amalomyn wrote: Heavies are a specialized role that requires support from their team in anything other than CQC. If you think otherwise, you're running on COD syndrome. Stop doing this and think of the suits in squad tactics. This is not a ramboing game. Stop acting like it is. except if your running assaults, logis, or scouts then your can shield tank and have ehp close to a heavy, with zero speed penalty, and do better damage with your AR while bunny hopping to avoid bullets, because bunny hopping is totally a legit tactic.

D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 197	Posted - 2013.06.17 22:27:00 - [21] - Quote Kitten Empress wrote: Go assault then. You can't have the best of both worlds, your suit is a specialized suit meaning its supposed to do one thing best but the rest it wouldn't be as effective. Its like expecting a scout to be able to go head on against enemies and expect to survive. Now, for my second point, who the **** are you to dictate to CCP what the heavy suit is? They can tomorrow give it scout HP and give the HMG over 9000 damage per bullet. Its their choice, not yours. Now, about the rest of your post, your balance idea makes heavies the best defense/offense/everything. You have no idea on how to balance. but assaults and logis in fact have the best of both worlds...lol and i didnt even say i wanted the best of both, i just want to be efficeint at what im supposed to do. think of it, assaults, and logi's can get absurdly high ehp, at the proto level achieving the same or more than a heavy while having zero, or limited speed reduction to mobility. theier turn speed is godly, and the accuracy on the AR (because 75%+ kills are all some form of AR) even with no SP in it, is godly, inadition to the high dps, absurd range, great hip fire, you can do everything with an AR, except AV, but ive been in situations where a squad of 6 with militia ARs blow up a tank just by shooting it...lol from full hp! on top of that a fully charged scrambler rifle can one shoot most suits with only militia damage mods, (the over heating balances this out, but you get the point). you can do point defense, offense, objectives, basically everything better with a logistics and assault suit than you can with a heavy suit. so, really dnt know what your talking about telling me that im trying to make the heavy good at everything, when your assault suit is with an AR is superior to basically every ofther infantry weapon in the game. your idea of balance is pbvious because your solution to everything is go assault, is this AR 514? STFU, your idea of balance is: assault suit + AR > everything else.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 197	Posted - 2013.06.17 22:30:00 - [22] - Quote Void Echo wrote: every assaulters description of what they think heavies are for is the description of instillations next they're gonna want to be able to sneak up behind heavies and hack our armor so we switch teams. lol
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 197	Posted - 2013.06.17 22:36:00 - [23] - Quote my point. give it the damage and range of a full auto AR of the same lvl. this is balanced out against the: suits: low turn speed, (needs slight buff) low run speed, (needs slight buff) larger hit box larger head hist box (easier headshots) low jumping height (cnt vault anything, very clumsy) HMG: over heating high recoil, high dispersion, even after spin up low damage to shields, inability to get head shots (extremely difficult) long reload plus i never said buff HP, the resistance however i discussed in detail in another thread but between 30-45% max resistance is necessary. The 1132dps is required as dispersion and damage fall off will make that damage figure drop exponentially over range. Most suits can walk away faster than i can run after them. a militia AR does 1860 damage in one clip of 60, with 31 at 750rpm, its not too far off from the HMG having these numbers, but the AR is supposed to be more accurate than the HMG. it was never meant to outgun a HMG. finally, other drop suits can be modded to do different things, but heavies generally fall into one of two tasks, AV and anitpersonell.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 197	Posted - 2013.06.17 23:08:00 - [24] - Quote Another Heavy SOB wrote: I can get 10102HP from a heavy suit without a single module to increase HP.. Show me an Assault or logi suit that can do that. Caldari logi you say? Nope not really... Base HP is 180Shield 90 Armor (maybe 80, not in game now). So let's see with passive gains that's 225shield Max without modules, 112 Armor without modules. Now considering Caldari logi racial bonus you're getting about 90HP from a complex shield extender so that's about 680 shield with all 5 highs filled with extenders. Now let's pretend someone's actually silly enough to put more than one armor plate on this already slow suit...Two enhanced plate's would bring you to 388 armor with a 10% movement speed penalty and now you've just barely surpassed my Heavys HP without HP increasing modules In a fit that would arguably be absolutely terrible in most situations with an AR. Also you claim an Assault suit can rival the HP of a Heavy..really? Have you ever fit ANY assault suit? just for you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=83983&p=6 #102 Posted: 2013.06.05 03:41 \| Report \| Edited by: BL4CKST4R Like 3 Caldari Logistics NO racial EHP: 843 Caldari Logistics racial EHP: 934 <-- holy sh... Gallente Logistics EHP: 698 Caldari Assault EHP: 846 Gallente Assault EHP: 773 Gallente Assault 6% speed buff EHP: 828 Gallente Logistics 6% speed buff EHP: 753 CaLogi NO racial -1 High slot EHP: 770 _________ Amarr Assault EHP:811 Amarr Logistics EHP:736 Minmatar Assault EHP: 862 <-- 5.01m/s base speed after armor modules, wow... Minmatar Logistics EHP: 733 <-- 4.72 base speed after armor modules ovall speed = basically the same speed mobility, turn speed unaffected. heavy suit EHP basic no mods = 800 with modes proto basic = 1200 speed reduced to almost nill sentinel = 1300 speed = standing still overall speed = running is like crouch walking, turning is impossible. basically crawling. explain please how this is in anyway shape or form fair? so this is perfectly acceptable, every other suit can completely out class heavy to the point that they can do everything a heavy can better. they definitely can tank better. so not only are ARs vastly superior from dps, to range compared to the HMG which is a heavy only weapon; but assault and logi suits can have no penalty to speed and just as much hp as a heavy? and this is totally balanced right? -_- edit: you completely ignored my pervious posts, all of which refer to the balancing factors. the suit is nerfed.it needs a buff to be balanced. buffing a balnaced suit is OP, buffing a nerfed suit is balanced its logical. no offense, but you dnt know what your talkin about.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 199	Posted - 2013.06.17 23:35:00 - [25] - Quote i dnt care what your K/D is in pub matches. my 5.6 millioin SP into heavy suits, and HMGs says other wise. also the links are in the post.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 199	Posted - 2013.06.17 23:39:00 - [26] - Quote Chinduko wrote: The true worth of the heavy is to give CCP laughs since they obviously don't take the suit and HMG seriously. The other use of heavy is to let us players know that we made the huge mistake of putting our SP in the heavy and HMG when we should have clearly put all our SP in a medium suit with AR. ^^thiis
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 201	Posted - 2013.06.18 05:38:00 - [27] - Quote Another Heavy SOB wrote: D legendary hero wrote: i dnt care what your K/D is in pub matches. my 5.6 millioin SP into heavy suits, and HMGs says other wise. also the links are in the post. I have half your total SP into HMG skills alone, maybe that's your problem. The other 8 mill into suit's, modules and Forge guns. well then thats pretty sad. because with 1.5million you can get basically all the pertinant AR sills and crush anyother weapon in the game, save vehicles. but for an HMG you need at least 2.5-3 million SP just to start being decent and even at that you still get thrashed. so what your saying is for someone in a heavy suit with an HMG to match up to someone in a dragon fly assualt suit, with a milita AR you need over 10million SP? even if you put it proro against proto. 1.2~1.5million SP in ARs = 2.5~3 million SP in HMG? thats balanced? thats a joke. why is this an MMO if leveling up gives no benefit?
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 201	Posted - 2013.06.18 06:03:00 - [28] - Quote Another Heavy SOB wrote: Really? 1.5 mill for all pertinent AR Skills eh? So proficiency isn't important? Maxing proficiency is 1.5 mill SP alone... And of course reducing bullet dispersion through sharpshooter is completely useless...If anything the argument could be made that getting your AR to PC competitive levels requires more SP. If you're dying to Dragonfly assaults with Militia ARs the problem is you, not the game. In short, Cry Moar to even a get a HMG you need to put 1million SP into weapnry lvl 5 so dont give me that bullshit. you dnt need to max damage on ARs, when you already got the blanket 10% and out range everthing else. the only buff to damage you may need is through damage mods, to beat other ARs because those are your only challenge. I know people that can get their ***** dragon fly assualts to have 500ehp, and run around with militia Ars that chread. or exile assault rifles. in short you dnt know what the f* your talking about.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 203	Posted - 2013.06.18 06:15:00 - [29] - Quote Another Heavy SOB since you like talking ** the invitation is open to you too. you can squad up with me anytime i'm on and i can prove to you i am not lying, and that i am indeed a good player. just add me as contact, unless of course you just like to talk ** on forums.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 208	Posted - 2013.06.19 06:32:00 - [30] - Quote Drogan Reeth wrote: Kitten Empress wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: Kitten Empress wrote: Void Echo wrote: i laugh a little every time I see ASSAULTERS say what OTHER CLASSES are for. Ehhm, CCP said it themselves. HMG's are for point defense. CCP is wrong. OR let me put it this way... HMG's are for point defence... it just might be that the point im defending is over there... where the red dots are standing... How are CCP wrong if this is their game and they decide what role to give to something? Even if it isn't balanced right, CCP wants this weapon to work for point defense, whether you like it or not . Because a defensive weapon should out range an offensive weapon. Always. Look at it logically, the attacker always moves towards the defender, so if the attacker out ranges you he STOPS MOVING and kills you! Then he comes in and takes the spot you where defending. Who the ** would be a defensive weapon that can't defend **. So a choice must be made, either make the HMG a defensive weapon, and increase its range to longer then an assault riffle. Or make it an offensive weapon and keep its range but increase it's dmg and reduce the spread. yes

D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 208	Posted - 2013.06.19 06:58:00 - [31] - Quote Superhero Rawdon wrote: Jastad wrote: Another Heavy SOB wrote: CUT I kown you are on EON, i want YOU SHOW ME you 4/5 kdr in a PC MATCH to prove YOUR ARGM Vids it, so all people who complain about heavy see your vids and STFU. Again, stop watching pubscrub for balance Classes. Someone still need to explain how if your Turn speed is too low for offense, how can be good for defense? its not. we know this. ppl saying otherwise have gone full ******. actually, its backwards. if its horribad for defense, how is it acceptable for offense? Amen. @ EON one match agasint scrubs doesnt count either. because most pub stomps happen when one team has better gear than the other, but in PC everyone uses proto, so with proto teamates helping you out, and friendly fire on, most noob corps dnt stand a chance,
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 208	Posted - 2013.06.19 07:06:00 - [32] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Alright Im calling it now, you are just a bad player blaming your tools ^^this is your rebuttal? i have over 5million SP in heavy suits and HMGs. I am part of the 1armed bandits as a high ranking member. i have played against notable corps and made a name for myself. still if you want to see if im a bad player, add me as contact and play on my team, or we can get two squads, go to opposite sides of a merc battle and i can show you my skill. to be fair ill only use std heavy gear. i dnt care whether you accept the invitation or not, but its there. i am willing ready and capable of proving my point. the weapon is inferior. period. the suit is weak period. r u a navy seal? why does that matter? I have family and friends that served and serve in the united states army, and special forces.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 211	Posted - 2013.06.19 08:20:00 - [33] - Quote ^^yeah your caldari logi with more EHP than your Heavies that are all running proto ARs because they beat every weapon in the damn game. good show, old chap. hell, why even rep your heavies you can do their job better, just sheild tank and get a duvole AR. you win. thanks for making this game AR 514.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 211	Posted - 2013.06.19 08:26:00 - [34] - Quote i am willing ready and capable of proving my point. the weapon is inferior. period. the suit is weak period.[/quote] r u a navy seal?[/quote] why does that matter? I have family and friends that served and serve in the united states army, and special forces. [/quote] semi-inside joke. inside being the internet. http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/navy-seal-copypasta ^^ you should be ashamed of yourself for this. i have lost some friends i knew who went to overseas. i am offended by this.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 211	Posted - 2013.06.19 09:13:00 - [35] - Quote logi bros, always are welcome. but the heavy shouldnt need to be right on a logi or instantly die. if that were the case, they should make it easier to be heavy by keeping it the same but drastically reducing skill costs, because this is an awfully large amount of skil points, ISK, adnd time to put SOLELY in the hands of a logi. point being a logi is supposed to suppliment or rather compliment the heavies abilities not baby sit him. right now running in a squad but without a logi makes no sense for a heavy, in fact running periood makes no sense. defense becomes possible when a logi is around, but its strange, anyother suit can move around without the aid of other suits. the aid from other suits enhances their abilities but it is not necesary for their individual sucess. what i am saying is, a team is not just a parasytic relationship, an assortment of weaklings who desprately need each other to survive. a real team is a combination of self sufficeint members that on their own are powerful, but when combined are enhanced.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 211	Posted - 2013.06.19 10:44:00 - [36] - Quote ^^this. the heavy suit and HMG still need a buff desperately. and the damage is still to low. even though i recommend it do the same as an AR of the same category and the same range. ill settle for SMG damage per shot, with the same range as a full auto AR of the same category. basically, HMG and the AR balanced against each other occupoy opposite sides of the spectrum. the basic idea for the HMG, is that the closer the AR user gets to the HMG the more damage he will take, the further he is from the HMG the less damage he will take. point being he will still take significant damage if he stays within the line of fire this way at the max range of the HMG being the same bmax range as the AR both would take damage but the AR would win due to higher accuracy, where as the closer the AR user gets to the HMG the less this advantage seems to matter as the dps and higher concentration of rounds will give the HMg the advantage. right now, the HMG is only good at shotgun range, and the dps isnt even high enough to out gun a militia AR at medium range. remember: AR damage per shot! ~= HMG damage per shot! AR RoF < HMG RoF! AR accuracy! > HMG accuracy AR reload speed !< HMG reload speed AR recoil !< HMG recoil AR dispersion! < HMG recoil AR overheating! < HMG over heating AR clip < HMG clip! the AR is an accuracy weapon, let that be the advantage. all the "!" point out the advantage. as you can clearly see the HMG should have three distinct advantages over the AR clip sizes, rate of fire, and the damage per shot being approximately the same counts as an advantage sort of. the AR has the advantage in reload sped, recoil, dispersion, the fact that it never over heats, has high accuracy, the damage per shot is still good, and the RoF is less than the HMG still viable as a medium damage weapon. when we factor in the suits more advantage vs disadvantage comes to play. (where ! marks an advantage) _____________________Assault/logi suit __l__ Heavy suit basic slots ____________________ ! run speed ________________! movement speed ___________! jump height __________________! hit box size * ________________! CPU _______________________! PG ______________________! turn speed ________________ ! EHP ____________________!_____________________ ! As you can see the suits themselves have their inherent advantages. the heavies are supposed to have the ehp advantage but many suits can come very close. so this advantage is negligible as both can improve it efficiently. its balanced to give the HMG the damage per shot and range of the ful auto AR of the same level. *where smaller is better
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 214	Posted - 2013.06.20 03:03:00 - [37] - Quote Colonel Killar wrote: Benari Kalidima wrote: I always get mowed down by heavies with really high k/d ratios. I don't understand what people are talking about, other than when talking about range, which is anyway being changed for all weapons. When? good question
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 214	Posted - 2013.06.20 03:04:00 - [38] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: D legendary hero wrote: i am willing ready and capable of proving my point. the weapon is inferior. period. the suit is weak period. r u a navy seal? why does that matter? I have family and friends that served and serve in the united states army, and special forces. [/quote] semi-inside joke. inside being the internet. http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/navy-seal-copypasta ^^ you should be ashamed of yourself for this. i have lost some friends i knew who went to overseas. i am offended by this.[/quote] 1. It's a joke. 2. So have I. 3. I was over there with them. 4. Get off your offended high horse and go ** yourself.[/quote] you probably shot your self in the foot to get back home. stop being a *** and get a life. im sorry my taxes paid for your ass
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 215	Posted - 2013.06.20 03:10:00 - [39] - Quote Another Heavy SOB wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Another Heavy SOB since you like talking ** the invitation is open to you too. you can squad up with me anytime i'm on and i can prove to you i am not lying, and that i am indeed a good player. just add me as contact, unless of course you just like to talk ** on forums. I'd rather see you on the other side so I can shove my HMG down your throat to really prove the point. FW, my corp vs yours, I'll be back playing on Wednesday. i played you guys and owned you already. anyway you know my corp. its listed here. you really wanna play me? add me as contact. i aint hiding. anyone can play with my squad or ill join your squad and you'll see exactly what im talking about. enough talk show and prove or keep it to yourself.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 215	Posted - 2013.06.20 07:54:00 - [40] - Quote Aliakin Koreck wrote: OP Camp the objective and hold it down. Replenishing armor hives hahaha replenishing armor hives or ammo hives? either way a heavy can't hold those. camping one objeecive usually works in domination if its not in an open... oh wait every domination map has an objective out in the open? yeah, every heavyies weakness is open space so thats out the picture. skirmish. ok, heavies can shine in skirm...oh wait, there arent many CQC areas in skirmish maps... ok lets just stay in the city in skirmish. the heavy is good at CQC right... wait, shotguns, SMGs, and every sort of AR and scrambler rifle is better in CQC. yeah.... that ^^ doesn't work. solution kid, just use an AR and sheild tank with a logi suit. thats the real way to be a heavy

D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 216	Posted - 2013.06.20 11:39:00 - [41] - Quote Doc Noah wrote: You must be horrible at HMG if you get killed by shotgun and smg. ^^you must never have played heavy with HMG if ou havent been killed by shotgun and SMG. anyone even another heavy can sneak up on you because your scanners are **** poor. but, besides that shotguns are high damage, and a scout or assault or logi with a shotgun jumping and bunny hopping around the place firing like that will kill you in 2-3 shots. SMG is pretty much the same especially spray and pray for the head. your turn speed is to slow to keep up with them. and most of the time they dnt attack you directly, although some sheild tankers do. again you dnt play heavy STFU. im not hatin on the SMG or shotgun but the HMG is not meant fo r CQC. shotguns, and SMGs are.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 216	Posted - 2013.06.20 11:47:00 - [42] - Quote Another Heavy SOB wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Another Heavy SOB wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Another Heavy SOB since you like talking ** the invitation is open to you too. you can squad up with me anytime i'm on and i can prove to you i am not lying, and that i am indeed a good player. just add me as contact, unless of course you just like to talk on forums. I'd rather see you on the other side so I can shove my HMG down your throat to really prove the point. FW, my corp vs yours, I'll be back playing on Wednesday. i played you guys and owned you already. anyway you know my corp. its listed here. you really wanna play me? add me as contact. i aint hiding. anyone can play with my squad or ill join your squad and you'll see exactly what im talking about. enough talk show and prove or keep it to yourself. If you're referring to earlier tonight when you went against a few of my corp (3) in a public skirmish, the one where you finished 4-3 in 12-13th on your team? 2 of which were from running people over with your ishukone watch saga (I watch the killfeed to know what my enemy is using). I was actually one of those three on my Alt, I finished 10-4 4 or 5th. The Heavy Mr TEA Bag finished 18-4 1st on our team. You may have won the match but it wasn't from your input, your team carried you to a win. Hell you never even killed me, if you remember that orbital that got you in your truck near the CRU....That was me no i was refering to last week when i got an obital by myself verse you guys, while i was using a std heavy suit and std hmg and you guys were running proto gear, and duvoles. plus, i don't even remember playing you guys because every team i played last niht sucked. i thought you guys were better than that. i was in a squad of 2, myself included. finally, 3-4kills, with over 22 assists bro. and i got over 1200 WP just by taking your **. thats way you lost, we weren't playing ambush bro, it was skirmish about the null canons, you know the things with the letters over them. btw, my only 2 deaths were from getting ran over, and your orbital. if it takes you an obrital to take out 1 'dren' assault suit. you need some help
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 216	Posted - 2013.06.20 11:49:00 - [43] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: If you wanted to be an assault type guy, rushing between objective and objective, you need to become friends with your LAV. As far as the rest, heavy tracking speed needs some help. Each type of gun has a purpose, and if you don't have varying fits for each situation, you're gonna have a bad time. Bust the assault out for standoff engagements. Bust out a regular for all-purpose. Bust out a burst for CQC and limited-time span engagements(popping out of cover to hammer a specific spot). Finally, HMG's damage and range needs to be re-evaluated though. I run complex damage mods wherever possible, and HMG proficency 4, and I feel there are times when i'm finishing a 1v1 fight just in the nick of time - especially at medium-range engagements(even when using an Assault HMG). It could just be hit detection, but there are plenty of times when even at close range I get out-damaged by a regular AR(like, legit BPO version). Furthermore, I feel like you HAVE to run damage mods on an HMG to make it viable, which consumes our high slots and generally makes for very rigid fitting selections, where only the lows and grenades change. Uh.. I forgot where I was going with this.. I blame the dayquil.. ^^this. i can attest to this.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 216	Posted - 2013.06.20 11:53:00 - [44] - Quote WASTED MERC wrote: Rogatien Merc wrote: LT SHANKS wrote: I was curious to know what is the role of an HMG Heavy; target practice? So, my question still stands: what is the role of an HMG Heavy? The squads you have run with obviously suck or weren't playing a mindful, tactical game. Decent Logi support is nice and makes you a lot more effective. Work on maneuver and range control. Heavies definitely have a role. I bet there are HMG users who would say the same thing, in reverse, whats the point of a scout, they just run off into the distance and get mowed down by a guy with a HMG, I was curious to know what is the role of a Scout Light; target practice? Quote: I feel like you HAVE to run damage mods on an HMG to make it viable I didnt when i used the basic HMG, I found it did a pretty good job for what it is designed for scout = speed, reconnaissance, stealth. if you are engaging enemies directly with a scout your doing it wrong. (although i have seen scouts engage enemies directly and win. those dudes are nice) a buff to the heavy suit or HMG will never make scouts obsolete, but scouts that have no difficultly beating a heavy makes the heavy suit obsolete because the tradeoff for the heavy suit is speed for power, and if you dnt have the power, then your just slower with no benefit at all. still shield tankers that add speed boosters are a threat to scouts because they begin to move just as fast, with way more ehp and fitting capabilities. sad, but true. the Amar logisits frame is kinda pointleess, because its inferior to ever other logi, and the one advantage the side arm you dnt get till proto.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 216	Posted - 2013.06.20 11:56:00 - [45] - Quote WASTED MERC wrote: nova knives, ohhh man they own so hard at CQC, jumping all over the place like a wacked out raver oh way too much xtc and redbull, the proto nova knives will slaughter any squad of smg or shotty fan bois 10 times over at CQC before they even manage to pull the trigger cause the god like devs coded in a special lag monster to screw with your ping rate while being cut up with these fully sic trippy psycho stabbers, bleed out bro, yeah i own that crap ^^i dnt use knova knives in this build but, i aint hating. lol, since most squads have mics the knifer has to really be stealthy and take out 2-3 ppl at a time if possible otherwise the whole squad will be alerted via voice chat. its better to take out stragglers with the nova knives. but nova knives will never be OP
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 217	Posted - 2013.06.21 03:14:00 - [46] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: An HMG heavy teamed with a SCR assault is a pretty fantastic combo for both parties. HMG weakens people enough for one charged body shot to finish them. Meanwhile, the charged body shot destroys shields and leaves the HMG to eat people up. So there is just a fantastic exchange of assists. Its also great to take out other HMG heavies with this combo. "Oh look two fat guys standing next to eachother pointing HMGs, HOLY CRAP WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT GUYS SHIELDS! HOLY CRAP NOW HIS ARMOR MELTED!" ^^this sounds cool
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 217	Posted - 2013.06.21 03:15:00 - [47] - Quote Superhero Rawdon wrote: ok how did this turn into some epeen bullshyte? i mean, sob and legendary's banter from the start aside, this got stupid yeah, i caught the trolling late, and already responded, its too bad i cnt just delete my own posts
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 217	Posted - 2013.06.21 03:28:00 - [48] - Quote Another Heavy SOB wrote: stuff why do you just continue to troll? and yeah, you complete forgot the match where i did infact get the 1 man OB, how convenient infact i frequently (but not every week) get 1 man OBs. and im going to stop you right there because that story contradicts everything that happened in that match. anyone at all who knows me, knows how well i do every match. i did play with Lance 2ballzstrong. and he can tell you. Delta 749 thought i was bullshiting, and i got more WP, Kills, and assists than him every match when we played on the same squad. like i said, you want to play then squad up, otherwise stop making ** up. i haven't been in 12th place all this week, so thats how i know right there that is a blatant lie, always in the top 5. i wasnt even using a heavy suit, that match it was a dren assault. and a 'slpash bone flaylock'. the fact that i killed your Corp mates with a splash bone flaylock is bad. i didnt die by a single AV grenade, i was ran over 1 time, and your OB killed me and 1 other person. the fact that i did well against a team of YOUR people in proto gear, just means they play bad,, but have expensive stuff (which is why people fit proto gear in pub matches) Stop trolling me. you initiaed this and ruined this thread. this **, fine you want the heavy to stay this rut? go ahead, when i kill you with militia AR dnt come crying to me. since you have obviously failed to read any of my posts (before you began trolling me) there is no point to this. DON'T BOTHER RESPONDNG SOME WITTY REPLY TO THIS, BECAUSE I WILL NOT DIGNIFY IT WITH A RESPONSE.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 218	Posted - 2013.06.21 23:14:00 - [49] - Quote WASTED MERC wrote: D legendary hero wrote: since you have obviously failed to read any of my posts (before you began trolling me) there is no point to this. your posts??? its not your thread some other dude posted his thought on how ****** the hmg is im just saying how nova knives open up proto tanks like swiss cheese, those bad boys stab through unsolid shields and solid armour to get to the juicey inards of your 5mil tank, so suffer on my 150+/0 ownage every single match. I'm going to get an EVE account next hope into a space suit and just stab the absolute crap out of every single titan ship with them kick ass nova knives since you have obviously failed to read any of my posts (before you began trolling me) there is no point to this this^^ wasnt directed at you bro. also, i havent seen nova knives do that. is there a video where someone is doing this?
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 226	Posted - 2013.06.23 08:42:00 - [50] - Quote ^^pretty much

D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 227	Posted - 2013.06.23 17:00:00 - [51] - Quote WASTED MERC wrote: D legendary hero wrote: this^^ wasnt directed at you bro. also, i havent seen nova knives do that. is there a video where someone is doing this? yes please post link either here or on one of my threads
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 227	Posted - 2013.06.24 10:44:00 - [52] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: My god, 8 pages of arguing, and I'm beginning to wonder if you people have even bothered to look at the stats of the guns you're talking about. The HMG does not suffer a DPS problem compared to the AR. It does 29% more DPS than the AR, which is a very large difference. You folks can't be taken seriously when don't have even a basic grasp of the current state of the weapon. The HMG only had a damage problem during the first weeks of Uprising. (And those were dark days indeed...) ED: clarity. dude on several threads, i posted the exact numbers. and seriously 29% is a horrible advantage compared to all the disadvantages. in fact that 29% only proves my point. with a dispersion of 30~35% that 29% means nothing. why? dispersion is how many bullets don't go where you aim them, namely bullets that miss. therefore, if you have a damage advantage of 29% over ARs (which is still very low), but only 70% of them hit your target (and this is for a target standing still. for a mobile target its much worse) your damage advantage is negated. inaddition, just think about it the damage gap is 29% comparing a STD HMG to a militia AR. as you advance from STD-ADV-PROTO the damage gap becomes more and more narrow to the point where the ARs are doing way higher dps than an HMG. STD HMG -600dps +10% = 660dps + 15% procficiency = 760.35 +18% (2 complex damage mods) = 897.2 dps - 35% dispersion = 583.2dps at optimal range. past optimal range damage fall off is almost 20 damage per meter past optimal, (i.e. 10 m eters past optimal is a 200damage reduction) and then there is the hard cap. militia AR - 425dps +10% = 467.5dps + 15% proficiency = 537.625 + 18% (2 complex damage mods) = 634.4 dps - 3% dispersion = 615.4dps at optimal range past optimal damage reduction is near 6-7 i may be wrong though. factor in that the optimal range of an AR is farther than that of the HMG and you begin to see the problem. up close, people move to fast for the heavy suit to track due to poor turn speed, and low movement speed. at mid range dispersion eliminates all possibliity of out guning a militia AR of the same skill level as the HMG (10%, 15% proficiency, and 2 complex damage mods), the sentinel suit is at a larger disadvantage due to the fact that it can only fit one complex damage mod. at long range, well it can't be used at long range. remember this was a comparison of the militia AR to a STD HMG. the proto HMG is only 1.8 damage per shot higher, where as proto ARs increase by 2 or 3 more damage per shot. the disperity is evident.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 227	Posted - 2013.06.24 11:17:00 - [53] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: I am surprised to see that my thread is still alive. its because people hate heavies and are afriad they would become infinate super soldiers so they want to keep them forever nerfed. the only viable way to use heaves is with an AR as it out DPSs a HMG. (happened to me last night, heavies with TACs) and even at that its still pretty horrible (we cloned them and blew up the MCC)

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