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Wakko03
Better Hide R Die
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
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Posted - 2013.06.17 17:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
It is a little easier to see if you don't have such a round number to start with.
Basic Armor Plate: +65HP -3% to Movement & Sprint Speed; so if your sprint speed is 6.6 ='s -0.198 = 6.402 (ccp says 6.40)
Now Add in the Biotic Upgrade Skill 1% to level 3 should be 3% to sprint speed (0.198)... except it is not -- as CCP says they are not going to use the 1000ths place of the decimal point for this for this at level 3 (maybe when they get to level 5 you get it but so far I don't know as my requested skill respec is languishing in limbo); so even though 1% of 6.6 ='s 0.066 ccp says it is 0.06 (0.18) for a total speed of 6.58
-- now you got the module for sprint bonus... kinetic catalyzer which has a 1% bonus to module efficacy Basic is 5% boost to sprint speed, which is .33 for the 6.6 base level of suit. 1% of .33 is 0.0033 which makes it 0.3333 which ccp says is 0.33... where is the 1% module efficacy?
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Wakko03
Better Hide R Die
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
196
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Posted - 2013.06.17 18:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Check your own MATH. Mine jives with what the game is showing me.
CCP is the one with the issue.
6.6 -3% ='s 6.402 (the 3% ='s .0198) / 6.6 + 3% does not = 6.798
CCP MATh: 6.6 + 3% ='s 6.78.... this is from the dropsuit area, why - because CCP says that instead of it being .066 for 1% it is only 0.06 or 0.18 [instead of 0.198] at level 3. (as I stated I don't know if you get the missing values added for max-ing out the skill to level 5 because that has no thousandths)
This is what the game is telling me, hence the reason why when you add a Basic Armor plate it is only giving you a sprint speed of 6.40 showing in the UI and then when you add in the 3% for the biotic upgrade to level 3 it is only 6.58 displayed in the menu.
6.6 + 0.198 = 6.798 but even without a armor plate module it is only showing as 6.78....where it should be 6.8 if you round up like any normal human would do. |
Wakko03
Better Hide R Die
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
196
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Posted - 2013.06.17 20:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP says it is 6.78 sprint speed with three (3) 1% skill upgrades and no armor plates on.
Each upgrade with the base level should be 0.066 X 3 = 0.198 or 0.33 for the max level 5 biotic upgrade skill.
CCP says that with 1 armor plate on and level 3 biotic upgrade skill the sprint speed is 6.57 -- which is just confusing the heck out of me and is just saying they OVER-COMPLICATED THINGS.
6.6 - 0.198 ='s 6.402
6.6 + 0.066 + 0.066 + 0.066 ='s 6.798
6.6 - 0.198 = 6.402 + 0.066 + 0.066 + 0.066 ='s 6.6
6.6 - 0.198 = 6.402 + 0.06 + 0.06 + 0.06 ='s 6.582 which is as close to 6.57 as you are going to come
So that leaves some options, either the base value is higher than 6.6 or they are rounding the -0.198 to -0.2 or a combination there-in of the choices (the -3% value would then be higher rounded up while the +1% value would need to be rounded down)
6.601 X 3% = 0.1803 6.601 X 1% = 0.06601
6.603 X 3% = 0.19809 6.603 X 1% = 0.06603
6.605 X 3% = 0.19815 6.605 X 1% = 0.06605
6.607 X 3% = 0.19821 6.607 X 1% = 0.06607
Hey CCP why not just tell me where I am going wrong with this so I don't go on an angry rant against somebody trying to defend your vodoo math skills? |
Wakko03
Better Hide R Die
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
196
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Posted - 2013.06.17 21:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
There are no stacking penalties on skills.
Again, going by the numbers CCP has provided in game, the only place it should matter btw.
Suit Sprint Speed listed is 6.6
Just a suit, no ARMOR MODULES is 6.78 sprint speed.
So to get there, it should be Biotic Upgrades 1%, which is 0.066 per level
LVL 1 -- 6.600 + 0.066 = 6.666
LVL 2 -- 6.666 + 0.066 = 6.732
LVL 3 -- 6.732 + 0.066 = 6.798
LVL 4 -- 6.798 + 0.066 = 6.864
LVL 5 -- 6.864 + 0.066 = 6.93
Now at level 3 CCP says it is only 6.78.
The Equation CCP has used for the majority of the skills is as follows, BASE Value minus any penalties followed by adding the bonuses from skills.
So in order to get to the magic number of 6.78 at level 3 the upgrade would only be 0.18 instead of 0.198.... which is the number subtracted for having an (1) Armor module on.
For the record I hope to never have to deal with you at a register at some store. I'm not adding or subtracting the percentages, I'm doing the math, correctly |
Wakko03
Better Hide R Die
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
196
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Posted - 2013.06.17 21:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah it does work that way, for every other heading, PG , CPU , Shield , Armor skill , Armor Repair.
Base Armor 90, you get 4.5 HP per 5% / 25% 22.5 = max for skill level; for a max of 112.5 which I believe CCP rounds down to 112, I'm not turning it back on as it froze on me for being in the menus too long and then trying to launch a battle.
Same thing with the efficacy, Armor Repair +5% / 25% max equals 2.1 for the basic repairer skill at level 1 on a basic repair module, followed by 2.2 if you level the skill up and then at level 3 for the enhanced module it is 3.45 with the efficacy bonus to the skill. |
Wakko03
Better Hide R Die
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
196
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Posted - 2013.06.17 22:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Part of the problem is that we are talking about 2 different suits here.
While their rounding may not have effected your suit to such lengths it is doing some vodoo on the caldari logi class. And we are talking about 0.01 but that is still enough to make a headshot miss if you got multiple enemies lighting you up.
So what I conclude is that they are displaying the wrong values for the caldari logi suits.
I honestly don't know if the Armor Plate Modules efficacy bonus also adds some sort of undocumented increase to the -3% movement penalty as a side effect. |
Wakko03
Better Hide R Die
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
196
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Posted - 2013.06.17 22:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:
As a quick hypothetical, let's say you have a skill (or any statistic) that has a value of 100. If you have modifier of 10%, this means you have a new skill of 110, or 100+ 10. So far so good. Now, let's say you also have a module that gives you 10%. Going by your math (which is wrong), you would have 100+10+10, or 120. This isn't how it works because you now have two modifiers rather than just one. You would, in reality, have 100x1.1x1.1=121. Take a look at some of the complex damage mod threads and you'll see this misconception raise it's ugly head many times. The correct result is 121, and this is why CCP has also included stacking penalties.
Only in your crazy world.... try this at a store and you won't win. retail price $100 , 10% off; $90 take an additional 10%off sale or $9 more; companies have been sued for then using the sale price for the additional 10% off without saying it in the fine print that they are doing that and had to specify that it was an additional 10% off the retail price $10 total would be $80, tell the store you want 21% off and see what happens.
So just stop telling me I'm wrong, when they are using a vacakta theorem for doing simple math, I have been balancing a check book for years.
And before you re-edit all your posts to seem more sure of yourself, this was only 1 Armor repair module, no stacking penalties defined by CCP.
CCP also went on to say that the bonus saying it was 1.21 was an error thats only rememdy was to be removed from the UI entirely. |
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