DUST Search - A Possible Solution to Logistics used as Assaults.

DJINN Jecture wrote:

KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:

DJINN Jecture wrote:

KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:

(You forgot the
- More slots (Nine hi/lo)
which is a tremendous advantage)

My proto mini logi only has 4-4-4. The Cal Logi has 5-3-4, the Gal Logi has 3-4-5. Flux vs Cal Logi nullifies whatever racial bonus and 5 high slots they have. Which other suit can claim that one piece of equipment does that to thier bonuses? Their armor amount at level 5 armor upgrades makes them a 2 bullet kill with the right gun and they may not need to rep armor but unless they use Shield regulators (maxed out) they take a good 7-10 seconds before they get any more health. Thats 7-10 seconds of kitten kitten kitten. The Caldari Logi is perfectly balanced from what I can tell. If they are causing problems for you then you obviously need flux grenades.

OFC I was talking about CAL logi which has the slot advantage in addition to racial bonus advantage on the field of survival.

Fluxes are too situational, they are far LESS scary than locus grenades even for shield tankers as you won't be instakilled but rather have nice chance to step into cover. The armor difference is not that big, excluding armor tank fits themselves.

Shield depletion recharge timer is NOT 7-10 for proto Cal Logi. With single regulator (always easily fitted) the time naked is somewhere 3-4 secs. Maybe less. And that's shield OUT timer.

Right and you still have a problem shooting and killing them? You must not have that new scrambler rifle that cuts through shields..... Shocked

or a flux grenade or a logibro to resupply you with flux grenades or an RE which would insta kill that logi... Roll


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KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 468	Posted - 2013.06.17 08:33:00 - [1] - Quote The Black Jackal wrote: - More Shields - More PG - More CPU - More Equipment (You forgot the - More slots (Nine hi/lo) which is a tremendous advantage)
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 468	Posted - 2013.06.17 08:41:00 - [2] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Cosgar wrote: Why not make the CaLogi racial bonus unstackable with the shield extender bonus and start from there? Sweeping changes are the reason we have Uprising. Let's not make the same mistake again. +1 to avoiding sweeping changes. +20 if I could. +1 same
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 468	Posted - 2013.06.17 15:42:00 - [3] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: I'm no logi, but what if you simply took 1H and 1L and gave an additional Equip. Slot to all logis. Then Amarr Proto Logi would be, what, 2 high and 2 low slots? Not sweet. Everyone please consider not all logi suits are the same. It's true that Caldari logi is too good, but not all logis as a whole. Min and Gal seem fine.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 468	Posted - 2013.06.17 15:56:00 - [4] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: The Black Jackal wrote: - More Shields - More PG - More CPU - More Equipment (You forgot the - More slots (Nine hi/lo) which is a tremendous advantage) My proto mini logi only has 4-4-4. The Cal Logi has 5-3-4, the Gal Logi has 3-4-5. Flux vs Cal Logi nullifies whatever racial bonus and 5 high slots they have. Which other suit can claim that one piece of equipment does that to thier bonuses? Their armor amount at level 5 armor upgrades makes them a 2 bullet kill with the right gun and they may not need to rep armor but unless they use Shield regulators (maxed out) they take a good 7-10 seconds before they get any more health. Thats 7-10 seconds of kitten kitten kitten. The Caldari Logi is perfectly balanced from what I can tell. If they are causing problems for you then you obviously need flux grenades. OFC I was talking about CAL logi which has the slot advantage in addition to racial bonus advantage on the field of survival. Fluxes are too situational, they are far LESS scary than locus grenades even for shield tankers as you won't be instakilled but rather have nice chance to step into cover. The armor difference is not that big, excluding armor tank fits themselves. Shield depletion recharge timer is NOT 7-10 for proto Cal Logi. With single regulator (always easily fitted) the time naked is somewhere 3-4 secs. Maybe less. And that's shield OUT timer.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 468	Posted - 2013.06.17 16:32:00 - [5] - Quote Okay, I'm gonna summarize things here: Background facts: - Not all logi suits are the same, they have very different power levels at the moment. - Before buffing/nerfing, one has to identify if they should be applied to a single branch of suits or entire line. - Assault rifles are quite good and very general use which is intended. - As long as assault rifles work as intended the lack of sidearm isn't that grave. For other weps, it is. - TAC AR clip size nerf had deeper impact on TAC AR logis - No-one wants any sweeping changes with nerfhammer, that would wipe out everything learned from current balance state. Analysis on the Caldari Logi suit: Caldari Logi suit is the one heavily being used as pure assault instead of real assaults. This is the one people are unhappy about, even though some of them notice only the logi part not the racial type. It truly works marvellous in the assault role. Reasons one: the racial bonus is strong and can be considered combat-oriented (although higher HP helps in supporting role of course). Reason two: Slot layout of 5 high and 4 low totaling NINE us great. That is emphasized by the fact that logi suits have tons of PG/CPU (as intended for fitting equipment) which can be first used to take max advantage out of those nine slots, leaving lower tier equipment for Eq slots. Reason three: Not as great advantage but still contributing: Very good shield recharge values, especially the delay. Analysis on anti-shield oriented weapons: Since uprising anti-shield weapons have finally have emerged, great. Their effect is however just 'noticable' and cannot be considered as counter for anything well-balanced utilizing heavy shielding. If shields would be one of the few strong attributes then the anti-shield weps might have counter value. [SUGGESTIONS:] Note: Tunedowns only for Caldari Logis, others should stay as they are (well Amarr buffed but that's another topic) First: Remove the extra High slot from CA Logis along with small amount of PG+CPU. This would set CA logi in line with other logis as well as reducing the advantage gained from Extenders and Damage Mods. Second:IF first tunedown isn't enough, change CA Logi racial bonus to something more support oriented. As a small tune-down option: Tweak shield recharge/delay values so it compares better to CA Assault. PS: The writer IS running maximized TAC AR - CA LOGI while fighting against the same in a weak infantry skill alt
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 468	Posted - 2013.06.17 16:43:00 - [6] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: (You forgot the - More slots (Nine hi/lo) which is a tremendous advantage) My proto mini logi only has 4-4-4. The Cal Logi has 5-3-4, the Gal Logi has 3-4-5. Flux vs Cal Logi nullifies whatever racial bonus and 5 high slots they have. Which other suit can claim that one piece of equipment does that to thier bonuses? Their armor amount at level 5 armor upgrades makes them a 2 bullet kill with the right gun and they may not need to rep armor but unless they use Shield regulators (maxed out) they take a good 7-10 seconds before they get any more health. Thats 7-10 seconds of kitten kitten kitten. The Caldari Logi is perfectly balanced from what I can tell. If they are causing problems for you then you obviously need flux grenades. OFC I was talking about CAL logi which has the slot advantage in addition to racial bonus advantage on the field of survival. Fluxes are too situational, they are far LESS scary than locus grenades even for shield tankers as you won't be instakilled but rather have nice chance to step into cover. The armor difference is not that big, excluding armor tank fits themselves. Shield depletion recharge timer is NOT 7-10 for proto Cal Logi. With single regulator (always easily fitted) the time naked is somewhere 3-4 secs. Maybe less. And that's shield OUT timer. Right and you still have a problem shooting and killing them? You must not have that new scrambler rifle that cuts through shields..... or a flux grenade or a logibro to resupply you with flux grenades or an RE which would insta kill that logi... And you still think everyone pointing out things too strong are QQing as they are killed by them? I hoped you would've realised that's not the case, but let's underline it here: I run personally TAC AR Caldari Logi in an assault role. And it feels like GODMODE. A little less after TAC AR nerf, but st+¡ll the combo pwns above my actual skill level. (ofc still the best of the best down me more than I do them - you know who you are) And I'm asking for that to be balanced out from that level.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 470	Posted - 2013.06.18 15:09:00 - [7] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Out of all the arguments for a nerf the one topic that consistantly is brought up are their shields. The flux grenade is the counter. It is fully anti shield and I can carry 3 of them at a time. If you want to dedicate an assault suit to killing caldari logis then you need 3 things. 1 flux grenades 2 scrambler rifle (proto if possible) 3 M-3 nanohive for grenade resupply. This can be done with any assault class suit even the militia assault and be successful. There is always a counter to the Cal Logi and as such it is balanced, just because it works for more than one thing well does not mean it needs a nerf. Look at the above post, he says GODMODE like the Caldari Logi is the only one with a god mode. There are ways to fit ALL the dropsuits so that they survive like a God but they require the right skills to do so. They also require forethought, and the right circumstances to pull off. In the right circumstances you can also kill any player on the field, so just what is it that needs balance? The reason why the Cal Logi is a successfully skilled suit is the shield bonus and the fact that any player worth their salt realizes that Shield Upgrades 5 gives them 25% more shields. This is a suit that can have 90% of their HP wiped out with one grenade. I know, I used to be a CALDARI Logi and found that the armor is not enough to withstand a TAC AR or HMG or Scrambler pistol/rifle or even a militia assault rifle for more than 3 shots or one burst. Dead is dead no matter how you get there, the vast majority of the Caldari Logis on the field are still dying and are not as OP as you claim them to be. Lesser suits can be instakilled by locus grenade as they have less HP. Being instakilled is far far worse than surviving with ~100 armor HP.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 470	Posted - 2013.06.18 15:19:00 - [8] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: make it a requirement for logi's to have they're equip slots filled in order for fitting to be valid.. Now there's a good idea to make it easier to balance logi suits. (clarification: logis have to have extra PG+CPU to wield EQs but currently it-¦'s possible to ignore EQs altogether and fill HIs and LOs with complex mods no assault can.