I think most people are aware of the Caldari Logistics ability to tank. It's written plain as day in their description, and it's being abused under the current mechanic. Not because it's a bad mechanic, but the fact there is NO downside to running said Logi... you give up a Sidearm, to gain:

- More Shields
- More PG
- More CPU
- More Equipment

I have a simple solution. Reduce the damage done by logistics Suits by 30-40%, across the board. Just a flat reduction in 'weapons' damage. (So Remote Explosives, Grenades etc are still as effective, but your guns are not.)

Give them a detriment equal to their advantage. At the moment there is only one downside to running a Logistics Suit as an Assault, and it's nothing comparative to what you gain.

This damage reduction would be applicable to ALL Logistics Suits, putting them into a support role, where they should be. Not as a Frontline Attacker.

I know people hate to quote it, but EVE Online is a sandbox game... if you want to shield tank as your speciality, you can heabvily modify a normal 'armor tanking ship, and ignore bonuses, or you can fly Caldari, or Minmatar (some of them anyway)

Sandbox doesn't mean EVERY suit should be able to be played ANY way, or we should just have a single suit with 4 highs, 4 lows, Light Weapon and Sidearm. No bonuses, nothing. Just a plain, suit, capable of being fit anyway you'd like.

Logistics suits are not 'relatively weaker' in most respects. You can fit more, you say that you can fit modules of higher tier earlier, and that assault catch up.

A Logi with those same skills (but being logi) can fit far more. % bonuses enhance those with higher base stats, and Logis have higher base stats.

Equipment, especially in PC matches with the ability to throw down up to 6 or more drop uplinks, makes the difference. The ability to also throw down nanohives, makes a difference. Putting the Assault Suits on the back burner. Since they can fit only 1 piece of Equipment.

If Logis were nerfed by reducing their PG CPU to assault levels, it would have the same outcry, but it wouldn't hurt their ability to solo. I'd take that option. TYhis is posted as a possible solution.

But the same principal applies to fitting...

Choosing a Suit is part of the customization process.

Another skill respect would just make something else the flavour of the month.

You chose your role, and choices have consequences. If what you play is nerfed, you shouldn't be given the opportunity to renege on your choice.

Regardless of what they're being used for... "and if you think being run over by a car wouldn't kill you, i'm sorry.. but go step into the street and test it while wearing a suit of armor... you still wont come back", what I'm basing it on is the design PRINCIPAL... higher defencive capability, lower Offensive capability. Where as Assaults should be reversed... Higher Offensive Cap, lower Defensive cap.

CaLogis have the worse base stats out of all the logis and don't get a sidearm like the Amarr at proto level. They pay a price for those slots. Start with the racial bonus and see where that takes you.

There is no good reason. It's a lot of scrubs, that probably have low SP, who keep getting killed in pubs by Logis and they're convinced that it's the suit's fault. It has nothing to do with player skill. Medics shouldn't be able fight back!

Caldari Logistics after bonus change
eHP: After Change - 843 Before Change - 934

Gallente Logistics after bonus change
eHP: After Change - 698 Before Change - 698

Amarr Logistics
eHP: After Change - 736 Before Change - 736

Minmatar Logistics
eHP: After Change - 733 Before Change - 733

Values based on Prototype 'max tank' builds.

Note only the Caldari Logi is changed on eHP value.

Onto the next.

The Caldari bonus replaced with nanohive increase. Encouraging support, but also useable solo. Bad? Somehow I doubt anyone wont run a Caldari Logi because they get 'better' nanhovies.

The Amarr Current Bonus of 25% extra repping from 'local' armor reps. Complex Armor Repairers repair 5hps..., combined with the Skill-based increase to effectiveness and the Amar Logi Bonus at most, you're gaining an extra 2.5 HPs for a total of 7.5 HPs from each Complex Repper. With the current 5 HPs Bonus, and maxxing your Armor Lows with Reppers, you get 27.5 HPs.
The Caldari Logi gets a 'BASE' 20hps on it's Shield. With no modules, or skills affecting it. So the Amarr Bonus is much less valuable, and thus, removed to bring in a support-style one that encourages pairing up with the other Amarrian Suit, a rep bonus to it's tool, up to 25%. A Core Repair Tool can rep 2 targets at 35 HPs, so a 25% bonus to that means 2 Targets can be repaired for 43.75 HPs, a net gain of 17.5 HPs. I hear Heavies and other Armor Tank Dropsuits crying out in cheers.

The differentiation of shield and Armor Bonuses for particular Logistics suits is pretty linear. Minmatar are famed for being a 'jack of all trades' in New Eden, being able to Armor Tank on some ships, and shield tank on others. In this game, I believe the fact they are currently one of the fastest Logis, means they would favour shields to retain as much of that speed as possible. the 5% to Shield Regen was prosposed as a roughly equivalent. on the above 20HPs an extra 5% gives 1 HPS. It could possible be extended to 10-25% to equivalent the current 'Assault' Bonus.

I have never put off hand the risk Vs. Reqards. I have simply sidestepped the issue to get to the core mechanics. Once Logis are able to support MORE effectively and are encouraged to do so via in-game mechanics, then offering incentive that via rewards is part two. And nothing is stopping them from doing both at the same time. There is little risk in throwing down a nano-hive, but a hefty risk in repping a Heavy or 2 engaged in a gunfight.

The rewards should scale with the risk, I do not disagree with you there, but the evidence you portray is a concrete link.. built on sand. If the mechanics fail, no one will do it, no matter what rewards you offer, and if the rewards fail, the mechanics will still work. Building the mechanic to work first, builds the solid base to build rewards on top.

Blackstar, the values I took were quoted from you... earlier in this same thread.

I'm seriously not saying the Amarr Logistics Suit doesn't need a higher base eHP... again... a separate issue. What I am trying to accomplish here is making mechanics work better for encouraging logistics to play logistics.

Cross, while I respect your opinion, and have said I AGREE WITH YOU... so I'm not sure why you're still arguing... the fact is there is NOTHING stopping them from doing both at the same time. I'm addressing the SINGLE mechanic of enhancing Logistical capabilities here. Not rewards for them. I agree (and have said this multiple times) that buffing the rewards for Logistics to match Risk Vs. Reward is something I agree with.

What I don't get is that should you get a greater effect from something like a rep tool, nanohive etc... you actually can reduce your risk by some small amount (miniscule in some cases) but doing something better, more efficiently, and faster, means you can 'get in and out' faster.

Now I realise this is very situational, but how much does the Amarr Rep bonus Actually net you? Pittance. The 25% extra local reps amounts to less than a single GEK round, even with 3 stacked Rep Having that Amarr Heavy With you, kept alive for just a few more seconds... could mean the difference between the point being held, or the point being taken.

I will not say you don't have a valid point, as I said, and will say again, reward and risk should be parallel, like you say... but just because the reward doesn't match up with the risk at this time, doesn't mean you should maintain the status quo and NOT fix the mechanics.