DUST Search - IMPORTANT: Fixing The Red-line Problem

Pr0phetzReck0ning wrote:

pegasis prime wrote:

Scheneighnay McBob wrote:

Good suggestions.

I remember back when we still had skirmish 1.0, the attacker spawn was super exposed yet nothing ever happened to it.
Why? because it was too far away from the objectives for anyone to give a damn; not because of the red line

Oh bring back skirmish 1.0 please ccp. But on topic if I have to get my tank out of a pretty hairy situation I will retreat to the red line to rep up. So a big no to removing the redline entirely. If you cant kill me before I ger back to the redline its your own dam fault.

I see where you are coming from in regards to "hairy situations" but you don't necessarily have to take your tank all the way to the red-line and beyond it. You could just take it to a part of the battlefield where it is clear.

War is about risks and loses. It's all about sacrifices, on that note: if you put your tank into a hairy situation you should know very well that you will more than likely lose it. But it's also true what you said that if the enemy cannot kill you in time then their loss. Yet, you shouldn't have to go all the way to the red-line for safety.

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Pr0phetzReck0ning KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Lokun Listamenn 21	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:03:00 - [1] - Quote I'm sure there have been posts on this before, yet I'm going to give my take on it and maybe a suggestion or two. The redline system is semi-broken and extremely exploitable. There have been numerous accounts of red-line sniping, tanking, hiding, etc etc. you name it it has been done. The most annoying exploit of the red-line is when snipers/ tankers hide behind their line so NO ONE can get to them without pretty much going on a suicide mission. This is clearly unfair and needs to change. Suggestion 1) make it so that each team has their redline to spawn safely Behind, yet require them to both cross the line into the actual battlefield and ALSO make it so that way once they enter the field they can no longer backtrack to their red-line without the timer popping up. (allow this to happen during each and every ground/MCC spawn) Suggestion 2) Expand the fields so that way there is NO red-line spawning. This means that MCC's are not behind the red-line and are actually on the main field. This way, EVERYONE will have a red-line restriction if they attempt to cross it. Clearly these need only apply to Domination matches, skirmishes, and of course Planetary Conquest. What this will eliminate (hopefully) are the most popular exploits mentioned above in which characters use their redline as a safe zone where they cannot be touched. If this is a FPS that simulates warfare then there should be NO safe zones (other than the obvious MCC spawn). Yet, there needs to be tweaks in the respawn system where characters do not spawn near enemy infantry. Even though tweaks have been mentioned there are still cases of battles on extremely open fields take place in this one specific area because both teams seem to be spawning side by side as opposed to opposite points on the field. (these mostly occur in Ambush matches but I figure it needs mentioning too) These maps are really big, and all that space needs to be used responsibly. I have faith that this will be closely considered and implemented as soon as possible. If this is already being fixed as we speak then feel free to disregard this thread. Thank you, Pr0phet
Buster Friently Rosen Association 699	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:16:00 - [2] - Quote There's nothing wrong with redline sniping. Shoot them back if they annoy you.
Pr0phetzReck0ning KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Lokun Listamenn 21	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:19:00 - [3] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: There's nothing wrong with redline sniping. Shoot them back if they annoy you. There is plenty wrong if all the person does is stay behind the red-line to snipe. The point is no one should feel untouchable. Sure, I've been in situations when I cross the red-line just to kill the snipers but I do it at the cost of a drop suit because it's a suicide mission. So yeah, there is plenty wrong with it
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 119	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:20:00 - [4] - Quote Pr0phetzReck0ning wrote: Buster Friently wrote: There's nothing wrong with redline sniping. Shoot them back if they annoy you. There is plenty wrong if all the person does is stay behind the red-line to snipe. The point is no one should feel untouchable. Sure, I've been in situations when I cross the red-line just to kill the snipers but I do it at the cost of a drop suit because it's a suicide mission. So yeah, there is plenty wrong with it It never occurred to you to pick up a sniper rifle and pop his head?
Pr0phetzReck0ning KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Lokun Listamenn 21	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:24:00 - [5] - Quote Sure if I was a Sniper, but I'm not a Sniper. I'm an assault. Besides this exploit doesn't just occur with snipers it occurs with tanks and LAVs and Dropships as well. Like the tanks that are almost down yet they manage to flee all the way back pass the red-line to get their armor and shields back up. You both are just focused on the sniping aspect.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 699	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:28:00 - [6] - Quote Pr0phetzReck0ning wrote: Sure if I was a Sniper, but I'm not a Sniper. I'm an assault. Besides this exploit doesn't just occur with snipers it occurs with tanks and LAVs and Dropships as well. Like the tanks that are almost down yet they manage to flee all the way back pass the red-line to get their armor and shields back up. You both are just focused on the sniping aspect. Spec into Sniping then. Your AR is not all there is. You shouldn't expect too rule with the AR. DO you get pissed when people are dropped on buildings because your AR can't teleport you up there to shoot them in the face?
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1563	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:33:00 - [7] - Quote Good suggestions. I remember back when we still had skirmish 1.0, the attacker spawn was super exposed yet nothing ever happened to it. Why? because it was too far away from the objectives for anyone to give a damn; not because of the red line
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 350	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:35:00 - [8] - Quote I admit... I pretty much refuse to play skirmish or domination due to problems with the redline and sniping. Need bigger maps, i.e. more distance between MCC and objectives (esp in domination, why the hell would you ever put the objective in LOS of the MCC spawn point???) and multiple areas (far apart) to spawn to prevent spawn camping. Then put more CRUs, supply depots, and installations to help fill that extra space.
Pr0phetzReck0ning KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Lokun Listamenn 23	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:36:00 - [9] - Quote No actually I could just have one of my dropship pilots take me up there or deal with them. That's the point of specializing in something. hence why I actually am an exceptional AR fighter since I specialized in it since closed beta. One shouldn't feel at such a disadvantage that they need to go and specialize in something else or switch over to a different play style. I am merely stating obvious exploits of the red-line that have been used continuously. Also, you my friend are not a developer, and that is what these threads are for: for developers to read our suggestions and hopefully listen to them. I appreciate your opinion as a player but you're not bringing anything new to the thread by just criticizing everything I write.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 276	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:38:00 - [10] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Good suggestions. I remember back when we still had skirmish 1.0, the attacker spawn was super exposed yet nothing ever happened to it. Why? because it was too far away from the objectives for anyone to give a damn; not because of the red line Oh bring back skirmish 1.0 please ccp. But on topic if I have to get my tank out of a pretty hairy situation I will retreat to the red line to rep up. So a big no to removing the redline entirely. If you cant kill me before I ger back to the redline its your own dam fault.

Pr0phetzReck0ning KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Lokun Listamenn 24	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:43:00 - [11] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Good suggestions. I remember back when we still had skirmish 1.0, the attacker spawn was super exposed yet nothing ever happened to it. Why? because it was too far away from the objectives for anyone to give a damn; not because of the red line Oh bring back skirmish 1.0 please ccp. But on topic if I have to get my tank out of a pretty hairy situation I will retreat to the red line to rep up. So a big no to removing the redline entirely. If you cant kill me before I ger back to the redline its your own dam fault. I see where you are coming from in regards to "hairy situations" but you don't necessarily have to take your tank all the way to the red-line and beyond it. You could just take it to a part of the battlefield where it is clear. War is about risks and loses. It's all about sacrifices, on that note: if you put your tank into a hairy situation you should know very well that you will more than likely lose it. But it's also true what you said that if the enemy cannot kill you in time then their loss. Yet, you shouldn't have to go all the way to the red-line for safety.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 277	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:52:00 - [12] - Quote Pr0phetzReck0ning wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Good suggestions. I remember back when we still had skirmish 1.0, the attacker spawn was super exposed yet nothing ever happened to it. Why? because it was too far away from the objectives for anyone to give a damn; not because of the red line Oh bring back skirmish 1.0 please ccp. But on topic if I have to get my tank out of a pretty hairy situation I will retreat to the red line to rep up. So a big no to removing the redline entirely. If you cant kill me before I ger back to the redline its your own dam fault. I see where you are coming from in regards to "hairy situations" but you don't necessarily have to take your tank all the way to the red-line and beyond it. You could just take it to a part of the battlefield where it is clear. War is about risks and loses. It's all about sacrifices, on that note: if you put your tank into a hairy situation you should know very well that you will more than likely lose it. But it's also true what you said that if the enemy cannot kill you in time then their loss. Yet, you shouldn't have to go all the way to the red-line for safety. Unfortunatly the battlefields at the moment are a bit too small for us tankers and ds pilots to really shine and the only really safe repzones we have are deep in the red line. And there not even that safe if their is an enimy rail tank hunting you . If they increased the map size by say double what it is now and put more distance between mccs and between objectives you would see much less redline sniping and I wouldent have to retreat so far to find a safe repzone but untill then ill be hidi g in the redli e whilst I recover. About hairy situations you can go from no reds near you to 3 forge guns right on your ass in less than 60 seconds . So we do t allways put ourselves into hairy situations they find us. I love havinf my tank right in the thick of it only retreating when nesesary. A tank that lives will continue to do its job I.e. distracting/destroying and demorelising the enimy as well as acting as a mobile bulit shield for my team.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 700	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:55:00 - [13] - Quote Pr0phetzReck0ning wrote: No actually I could just have one of my dropship pilots take me up there or deal with them. That's the point of specializing in something. hence why I actually am an exceptional AR fighter since I specialized in it since closed beta. One shouldn't feel at such a disadvantage that they need to go and specialize in something else or switch over to a different play style. I am merely stating obvious exploits of the red-line that have been used continuously. Also, you my friend are not a developer, and that is what these threads are for: for developers to read our suggestions and hopefully listen to them. I appreciate your opinion as a player but you're not bringing anything new to the thread by just criticizing everything I write. P.S. I'm not a COD player...havent been since the original Black Ops so don't assume you know who I am or what I do and don't play First off, this is an open forum. If you want a private convo with a developer, then send an email. What you describe as exploits, aren't. If you have no trouble getting your DS pilot buddy to take you up so you can shoot in da face, then have your sniper buddy take out the other snipers. This is the definition of specialization. I'm only criticizing what you write, because I think it is wrong, primarily because you are too invested, and thus too focused, on your role as an AR user. there should be situations, for all specializations, that you cannot overcome without someone else, or another specialization. I believe the AR users in particular, don't see this. Sorry about the COD thing.
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 119	Posted - 2013.06.13 18:58:00 - [14] - Quote Pr0phetzReck0ning wrote: No actually I could just have one of my dropship pilots take me up there or deal with them. That's the point of specializing in something. hence why I actually am an exceptional AR fighter since I specialized in it since closed beta. One shouldn't feel at such a disadvantage that they need to go and specialize in something else or switch over to a different play style. I am merely stating obvious exploits of the red-line that have been used continuously. Also, you my friend are not a developer, and that is what these threads are for: for developers to read our suggestions and hopefully listen to them. I appreciate your opinion as a player but you're not bringing anything new to the thread by just criticizing everything I write. P.S. I'm not a COD player...havent been since the original Black Ops so don't assume you know who I am or what I do and don't play This is hilarious. Your AR is useless against snipers when at range, it's never NOT going to be. You're given a free sniper suit that you can use at any time if you like. Play with a squad, or two squads.. have a sniper on your team to counter snipe if you can't be bothered to pick up a sniper rifle to kill a guy at range. But don't complain that something is broken if you're not going to use the available in game tools provided to you at no cost to accomplish a task.
Pr0phetzReck0ning KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Lokun Listamenn 24	Posted - 2013.06.13 19:15:00 - [15] - Quote ^^ yet another person assuming how I play smh. I do play in squads, hell it's kind of what i do as CEO of my Corp. I made this thread because over-time I've heard many complaints about the red-line from various players. This isn't a sentiment that I alone share. Clearly some of you don't believe the system to be broken or exploitable, clearly some of you take advantage in these ways and see no issue with it. But as a veteran player and many months of seeing it as a problem I decided to finally post something on it in the this thread.
Sgt Buttscratch G I A N T EoN. 125	Posted - 2013.06.13 19:16:00 - [16] - Quote So because you don't have a good counter sniper, dropship pilot etc, snipers who choose a range but not invincible approach should be punished... Counter sniping, is very effective, and with some good team distractions, most redline snipers can be sniped out. If you can't get them, then just admit, that they are doing a good job.
Pr0phetzReck0ning KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Lokun Listamenn 24	Posted - 2013.06.13 19:23:00 - [17] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: So because you don't have a good counter sniper, dropship pilot etc, snipers who choose a range but not invincible approach should be punished... Counter sniping, is very effective, and with some good team distractions, most redline snipers can be sniped out. If you can't get them, then just admit, that they are doing a good job. I don't see it as punishment. The first suggestion I made requires each team to cross their red-line and once they do that makes it so that way they can't run back behind it without the timer. A sniper could just cross the redline and post up right infront of it. There is no sacrifice in distance at all because the Snipers could still be at the edge of the map without hiding behind the line.
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 119	Posted - 2013.06.13 19:26:00 - [18] - Quote Pr0phetzReck0ning wrote: ^^ yet another person assuming how I play smh. I do play in squads, hell it's kind of what i do as CEO of my Corp. I made this thread because over-time I've heard many complaints about the red-line from various players. This isn't a sentiment that I alone share. Clearly some of you don't believe the system to be broken or exploitable, clearly some of you take advantage in these ways and see no issue with it. But as a veteran player and many months of seeing it as a problem I decided to finally post something on it in the this thread. And now you're making assumptions about how WE play. It's not broken because it's not unfair. They don't have any unseemly advantage that you don't, aside from the fact that they're armed with a sniper and you with an Assault Rifle. I'd tell you to feel free to continue whining but it's getting annoying at this point. Just because people don't like it doesn't mean it's broken. You also have to remember that snipers can't see their enemies red line zones, so they don't "know" if they're in the red line or not. They're just picking a good vantage point and using it (sometimes). Others probably are well aware that they are probably in the red zone. But their head is just as shootable as yours, so my original statement still stands. Get a sniper, get a dropship pilot, or use a sniper yourself. MLT is free.


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