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Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 194	Posted - 2013.06.13 05:23:00 - [1] - Quote It's bad and CCP should feel bad. The only purpose it serves is to ruin hit detection! I just finished a match where I began firing on a Gallente Assault with my HMG at Approx. 15 - 20 m. He immediately began his 2 stepin side to side the whole time taking absolutely NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER even though he was completely INSIDE THE CONE the ENTIRE TIME!!! Needles to say I ran out of ammo and he took me out with about 6 shots from a GEK. This is stupid! It completely defies all logic. Remove Strafing it is Game Breaking!
XtoTheS Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 69	Posted - 2013.06.13 05:50:00 - [2] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: It's bad and CCP should feel bad. The only purpose it serves is to ruin hit detection! I just finished a match where I began firing on a Gallente Assault with my HMG at Approx. 15 - 20 m. He immediately began his 2 stepin side to side the whole time taking absolutely NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER even though he was completely INSIDE THE CONE the ENTIRE TIME!!! Needles to say I ran out of ammo and he took me out with about 6 shots from a GEK. This is stupid! It completely defies all logic. Remove Strafing it is Game Breaking! Change classes? I never have an issue with people strafing. If you are zoomed in on your aim. Then I suggest making sure you are not zoomed in on your aim to keep target on the opposing player. If you still have this issue, make sure your analogue stick sensitivity is changed and or kb/m if thats what you use. if this doesnt fix your issues, I am sorry. As a heavy, I have some issues with it when I am in up close hand to hand distance but aside from that. I do okay.
GLiMPSE X IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 133	Posted - 2013.06.13 05:56:00 - [3] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: It's bad and CCP should feel bad. The only purpose it serves is to ruin hit detection! I just finished a match where I began firing on a Gallente Assault with my HMG at Approx. 15 - 20 m. He immediately began his 2 stepin side to side the whole time taking absolutely NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER even though he was completely INSIDE THE CONE the ENTIRE TIME!!! Needles to say I ran out of ammo and he took me out with about 6 shots from a GEK. This is stupid! It completely defies all logic. Remove Strafing it is Game Breaking! You call it hit detection, i call it over compensating and poor aim. Most good players don't have the problem to the degree you describe it.
Wolfica Planetary Response Organization 23	Posted - 2013.06.13 06:08:00 - [4] - Quote 1) if you cant kill 1 assault at 15-20 because he is doing a little two step then you suck at aiming. its much harder when they are in melee distance and the walk around you because the turn speed is so poor. 2) if you use an entire clip on 1 assault at 15-20m and they can only get 6 shots off on you and you die there are 2 problems with that 2.1) they have the slowest/even worst aim then you and a horrible fire rate. 2.2) if some one can 6 shot you with a GEK before you can kill them 1v1 in a HEAVY suit then you sir need better modules, a proto heavy basic, 3 complex armor plates, enhanced shield extender, and a heavy dmg mod I find does the trick also who would CCP take that out? what you are asking them to do is take out the ability to shoot when moving side ways. you do realize that's all strafing is right? sooooo... now in order to shoot at this assault you are this huge fat heavy who cant move now unless he wants to sacrifice his DPS.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 194	Posted - 2013.06.13 06:11:00 - [5] - Quote GLiMPSE X wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: It's bad and CCP should feel bad. The only purpose it serves is to ruin hit detection! I just finished a match where I began firing on a Gallente Assault with my HMG at Approx. 15 - 20 m. He immediately began his 2 stepin side to side the whole time taking absolutely NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER even though he was completely INSIDE THE CONE the ENTIRE TIME!!! Needles to say I ran out of ammo and he took me out with about 6 shots from a GEK. This is stupid! It completely defies all logic. Remove Strafing it is Game Breaking! You call it hit detection, i call it over compensating and poor aim. Most good players don't have the problem to the degree you describe it. Did you read my post? It he was standing between a container and some i beam structure inside a space about 1.5 m across doing the 2step inside my cone in my optimal range and took NO DAMAGE!! What is hard to understand about that! I'm not an idiot I know how to aim! I know how to run in my class! It is not me it is Strafing that is the problem!
XtoTheS Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 70	Posted - 2013.06.13 06:14:00 - [6] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: GLiMPSE X wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: It's bad and CCP should feel bad. The only purpose it serves is to ruin hit detection! I just finished a match where I began firing on a Gallente Assault with my HMG at Approx. 15 - 20 m. He immediately began his 2 stepin side to side the whole time taking absolutely NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER even though he was completely INSIDE THE CONE the ENTIRE TIME!!! Needles to say I ran out of ammo and he took me out with about 6 shots from a GEK. This is stupid! It completely defies all logic. Remove Strafing it is Game Breaking! You call it hit detection, i call it over compensating and poor aim. Most good players don't have the problem to the degree you describe it. Did you read my post? It he was standing between a container and some i beam structure inside a space about 1.5 m across doing the 2step inside my cone in my optimal range and took NO DAMAGE!! What is hard to understand about that! I'm not an idiot I know how to aim! I know how to run in my class! It is not me it is Strafing that is the problem! okay your next problem is, you got two great answers and yet you go and focus on the one with the trolling post. Wolfica goes into depth real well with the issue you may be having. I would take a step back and look at what you did wrong, why it happened and what you can do to prevent it from happening again... or make sure you were not lagging real bad.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 194	Posted - 2013.06.13 06:19:00 - [7] - Quote I'm telling you it is not me! It is not lag! It is not any of the issues Wolfica suggested it may be! Unidirectional strafing gives me absolutely no problem. I NEVER have a problem killing until someone starts the side to side (1 or 2 steps right, 1 or 2 steps left)strafing B.S. because this ruins hit detection.
XtoTheS Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 70	Posted - 2013.06.13 06:22:00 - [8] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: I'm telling you it is not me! It is not lag! It is not any of the issues Wolfica suggested it may be! Unidirectional strafing gives me absolutely no problem. I NEVER have a problem killing until someone starts the side to side (1 or 2 steps right, 1 or 2 steps left)strafing B.S. because this ruins hit detection. you are literally the first person i have seen on the forums who has complained about the strafing... that sir makes you the problem if you want to scientifically gather the solution.
Wolfica Planetary Response Organization 23	Posted - 2013.06.13 06:23:00 - [9] - Quote also it makes me real pissy when people strait up attack CCP for player tacticts. and to address the beginning of your topic with saying CCP should feel bad because some one decided to move side to side and you couldn't land enough of your rounds on him. when you start a topic off like that then yes people are going to troll you. now calm down and apologize to CCP and any one that read your sorry topic. because it was not a real pleasant way to start a request from some one.
GLiMPSE X IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 134	Posted - 2013.06.13 06:23:00 - [10] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: I'm telling you it is not me! It is not lag! It is not any of the issues Wolfica suggested it may be! Unidirectional strafing gives me absolutely no problem. I NEVER have a problem killing until someone starts the side to side (1 or 2 steps right, 1 or 2 steps left)strafing B.S. because this ruins hit detection. Herp to the derp.

Wolfica Planetary Response Organization 23	Posted - 2013.06.13 06:28:00 - [11] - Quote maybe try this. Dear CCP, Are there any ways to counter the tactic of strafing, I recently had this encounter "insert encounter here" and was hoping you guys could look into hit detection when a target is moving across the target reticule for the HMG, as it seemed none of my shots actually hit him. Thank you -"insert your name here"
XtoTheS Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 70	Posted - 2013.06.13 06:39:00 - [12] - Quote Wolfica wrote: maybe try this. Dear CCP, Are there any ways to counter the tactic of strafing, I recently had this encounter "insert encounter here" and was hoping you guys could look into hit detection when a target is moving across the target reticule for the HMG, as it seemed none of my shots actually hit him. Thank you -"insert your name here" I think we scared him off.. went to go open a ticket at support..
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 195	Posted - 2013.06.13 06:40:00 - [13] - Quote Enough with the fanboi crap! CCP are not little children and neither am I! You are only defending this broken mechanic because you probably exploit it yourself. Do you honestly think I am stupid? I rarely have any problem getting my rounds to land on target outside of this side to side strafing manuever. If my post makes you pissy then GTFO! Nobody asked you to post in my thread. When CCP does good I have no problem commending them for it! A simple search of my posts will confirm this. However, in this case adding strafing was very bad. CCP probably knew this, but went ahead and listened to morons crying because they wanted to strafe out in the open CoD/Haloesque like idiots. I want to see anyone, anywhere, in any battle in the entire history of the world that used this successfully as a combat strategy. (do not say video games)As a matter of fact would you like to go and test it? Do let me know how it works out for you if you do. Now stop trolling my post!
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 160	Posted - 2013.06.13 06:41:00 - [14] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: It's bad. Period. The only purpose it serves is to ruin hit detection! I just finished a match where I began firing on a Gallente Assault with my HMG at Approx. 15 - 20 m. He immediately began his 2 stepin side to side the whole time taking absolutely NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER even though he was completely INSIDE THE CONE the ENTIRE TIME!!! Needles to say I ran out of ammo and he took me out with about 6 shots from a GEK. This is stupid! It completely defies all logic. Remove Strafing it is Game Breaking! dude i understand your frustration but this has nothing to do with strafing. the problem as you clearly stated is hit detection. In addition, the HMG fires whipped cream, and the turn speed on the heavy suit is the same as the turn speed on a tectonic plate. strafing in any shooter should never be removed. your problem is the heavy suit, the HMG and the bad aiming system with its mediocre hit detection inaddition to the HMGs disperion of about 35% and damage drop off, and horrible range make it combined with the suit the most ineffective killing machine in the game. in fact i salute your courage for making the effort for using the heavy instead of just going AR. --D lengendary hero P.S. ARs especially full autos like GEKs are all really OP, for various reasons.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 160	Posted - 2013.06.13 06:51:00 - [15] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Enough with the fanboi crap! CCP are not little children and neither am I! You are only defending this broken mechanic because you probably exploit it yourself. Do you honestly think I am stupid? I rarely have any problem getting my rounds to land on target outside of this side to side strafing manuever. If my post makes you pissy then GTFO! Nobody asked you to post in my thread. When CCP does good I have no problem commending them for it! A simple search of my posts will confirm this. However, in this case adding strafing was very bad. CCP probably knew this, but went ahead and listened to morons crying because they wanted to strafe out in the open CoD/Haloesque like idiots. I want to see anyone, anywhere, in any battle in the entire history of the world that used this successfully as a combat strategy. (do not say video games)As a matter of fact would you like to go and test it? Do let me know how it works out for you if you do. Now stop trolling my post! calm down bro. its not a broken mechanic. it works as intended to evade bullet damage. you should however, push for the a buff to the heavy suit, and the HMG. my recommend changes are here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=81725&find=unread namely; 1. increased run speed by 15%. 2. increased turn speed by 15%. 3. base damage resistance of 10% increasing with a skill to 45%- for every heavy suit. 4. damage increase for the HMG to do the same damage per bullet as the SMGs. (std HMG does 23 damage per bullet, advanced 25, proto 34, etc). 5. CCP will fix the aim system and range issues shortly. 6. decrease dispersion by 5% more. final step: use these heavy suits as a model for the future variants. If these changes are made to the heavy suit it will be fixed and will need no further patches.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 196	Posted - 2013.06.13 06:54:00 - [16] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: It's bad. Period. The only purpose it serves is to ruin hit detection! I just finished a match where I began firing on a Gallente Assault with my HMG at Approx. 15 - 20 m. He immediately began his 2 stepin side to side the whole time taking absolutely NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER even though he was completely INSIDE THE CONE the ENTIRE TIME!!! Needles to say I ran out of ammo and he took me out with about 6 shots from a GEK. This is stupid! It completely defies all logic. Remove Strafing it is Game Breaking! dude i understand your frustration but this has nothing to do with strafing. the problem as you clearly stated is hit detection. In addition, the HMG fires whipped cream, and the turn speed on the heavy suit is the same as the turn speed on a tectonic plate. strafing in any shooter should never be removed. your problem is the heavy suit, the HMG and the bad aiming system with its mediocre hit detection inaddition to the HMGs disperion of about 35% and damage drop off, and horrible range make it combined with the suit the most ineffective killing machine in the game. in fact i salute your courage for making the effort for using the heavy instead of just going AR. --D lengendary hero P.S. ARs especially full autos like GEKs are all really OP, for various reasons. Thanks dude. Honestly if it is simply a matter of hit detection, I think I would be having more problems than I do. It is ONLY SPECIFICALLY in this type of scenario when this happens to me. Maybe the strafing back and forth is aggravating the already bad hit detection, but I only notice it then because in other scenarios I have already learned to auto-compensate for the bad hit detection. I do not think this is the case though. I normally get about a 4 KDR in most matches many times much higher (10-12) Rarely do I get below a 3. In this particular match I went 8 and 6. Terrible!! Wouldn't you know 85% of the red dots I shot at used this back and forth strafing "tactic". I know full well what my optimal range is (been playin heavy since about beginning of april) I'm saying that without a doubt this guy was in my optimal, and in my ideal attack environment (in narrow corridor). I was fully spooled up and kept him in my cone the entire time. This happened several times during the same match, but curiously it only happened when the enemy began the side to side strafing.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 160	Posted - 2013.06.13 06:55:00 - [17] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: I'm telling you it is not me! It is not lag! It is not any of the issues Wolfica suggested it may be! Unidirectional strafing gives me absolutely no problem. I NEVER have a problem killing until someone starts the side to side (1 or 2 steps right, 1 or 2 steps left)strafing B.S. because this ruins hit detection. have you ever asked a question but realized you already had the answer before you finished? your problem is not strafing its hit detection. dnt worry it pisses me off too. but its really the hit detection, i lost plenty of encounters because my flaylocks went right through people. dnt worry about the Trolls, they get paid for that. listen to me.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 160	Posted - 2013.06.13 07:03:00 - [18] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Maybe the strafing back and forth is aggravating the already bad hit detection, but I only notice it then because in other scenarios I have already learned to auto-compensate for the bad hit detection. I do not think this is the case though. if he was shield tanking (which is very common broken tactic because the caldari logi can get 914 ehp without any penalty.), and he was side stepping 15m away, while your firing an HMG, you lose. and will always lose. because of the following: 1. HMG verses shields equals does not work. 2. bullet weapons verse shields @ range does not work 3. bullet weapons verse shields @ range with HMG dispersions 4. ^^ these + low damage per shot, + low turn spead these = heavy dies everytime. now add strafing and now you will continue to do absolutely nothing to these guys forever. now add a GEK with the 25% damage proficiency and headshots. you as a heavy will lose your life savings. Basically, this is the baine of being a heavy, this is our pain. CCP must fix this. but NOT strafing. strafing is a valid tactic. making logi's have more ehp han a heavy and having ARs out DPS a HMG is NOT a vaid tatic. :)
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 196	Posted - 2013.06.13 07:04:00 - [19] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: have you ever asked a question but realized you already had the answer before you finished? your problem is not strafing its hit detection. dnt worry it pisses me off too. but its really the hit detection, i lost plenty of encounters because my flaylocks went right through people. dnt worry about the Trolls, they get paid for that. listen to me. I can even describe to you EXACTLY where this occured. 5 Point map with 2 large pipes. 1 L shaped pipe stretching from E to B 1 straight pipe from B past A to a CRU C is behind B with a CRU between them. There is a building across the road from C with small impassable pipes leading to some generators that snipers like to use. The same generators can be found on the other side of the map. There is another CRU on the Ground toward D from B. I was standing next to this CRU facing across the dirt road. The enemy in question was in between the container directly across from the CRU and the Beam Structure lying on the ground next to it strafing back and forth between them. He literally did not have enough room to escape my HMG Cone without retreating.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 197	Posted - 2013.06.13 07:16:00 - [20] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Maybe the strafing back and forth is aggravating the already bad hit detection, but I only notice it then because in other scenarios I have already learned to auto-compensate for the bad hit detection. I do not think this is the case though. if he was shield tanking (which is very common broken tactic because the caldari logi can get 914 ehp without any penalty.), and he was side stepping 15m away, while your firing an HMG, you lose. and will always lose. because of the following: 1. HMG verses shields equals does not work. 2. bullet weapons verse shields @ range does not work 3. bullet weapons verse shields @ range with HMG dispersions 4. ^^ these + low damage per shot, + low turn spead these = heavy dies everytime. now add strafing and now you will continue to do absolutely nothing to these guys forever. now add a GEK with the 25% damage proficiency and headshots. you as a heavy will lose your life savings. Basically, this is the baine of being a heavy, this is our pain. CCP must fix this. but NOT strafing. strafing is a valid tactic. making logi's have more ehp han a heavy and having ARs out DPS a HMG is NOT a vaid tatic. :) This is an entirely different issue, that I do not necessarily disagree with. I have posted some of my thoughts on this subject as well.

Omareth Nasadra Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 14	Posted - 2013.06.13 07:40:00 - [21] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Do you honestly think I am stupid? angry and stoopid
Laurent Cazaderon What The French CRONOS. 1560	Posted - 2013.06.13 07:47:00 - [22] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: It's bad. Period. The only purpose it serves is to ruin hit detection! I just finished a match where I began firing on a Gallente Assault with my HMG at Approx. 15 - 20 m. He immediately began his 2 stepin side to side the whole time taking absolutely NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER even though he was completely INSIDE THE CONE the ENTIRE TIME!!! Needles to say I ran out of ammo and he took me out with about 6 shots from a GEK. This is stupid! It completely defies all logic. Remove Strafing it is Game Breaking! So you want everyone to what ? Stand still and let you kill them ? Strafing has been in video games for years. Enhance Hit detection, yes. Remove straffing ? That doesnt make sense.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 198	Posted - 2013.06.13 08:08:00 - [23] - Quote No, but they shouldn't be able to 1 or 2 step strafe back and forth directly in my 2000 RPM line of fire without taking any damage whatsoever. Furthermore, I keep saying I never have this problem until ppl start the back and forth 2 step bullet dodging B.S. "tactic", tell me what about that is so difficult to understand? Strafing is not a legitimate battle tactic IDC how many video games it have included it! Normal soldiers take cover when taking enemy fire, they don't stand out in the open and dodge bullets by doing the 2 step! OMFG what a novel idea - taking cover, why whoever would of thought of that!!!!
XtoTheS Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 70	Posted - 2013.06.13 08:09:00 - [24] - Quote I just want to add in.. If you have problems with people who are strafing.. You should try to match their strafing, counter strafe. Regynum has a tutorial on youtube you should definitely check out. Look for dust 514 strafe tutorial. He does a great job of talking bout it and how to counter strafe.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 199	Posted - 2013.06.13 08:20:00 - [25] - Quote XtoTheS wrote: I just want to add in.. If you have problems with people who are strafing.. You should try to match their strafing, counter strafe. Regynum has a tutorial on youtube you should definitely check out. Look for dust 514 strafe tutorial. He does a great job of talking bout it and how to counter strafe. LOL @ a heavy trying to strafe! Seriously I wouldn't even want to do this. Its is an exploit in the way all video games are made. It is not a legitimate combat strategy! If it was, the U.S. would train infantry to do it. They don't. Do you know why? People trying to dodge bullets by strafing in the line of fire = people dying.
Wolfica Planetary Response Organization 24	Posted - 2013.06.13 08:22:00 - [26] - Quote real question Jaraiya, how would you suggest to the DEV's they take out the ability to move side ways and shoot at the same time "strafing?" then how would you go about telling the players that oh yeah last night we took out the ability to shoot while moving side ways.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 201	Posted - 2013.06.13 08:29:00 - [27] - Quote Wolfica wrote: real question Jaraiya, how would you suggest to the DEV's they take out the ability to move side ways and shoot at the same time "strafing?" then how would you go about telling the players that oh yeah last night we took out the ability to shoot while moving side ways. I'm not a programmer so I wouldn't know! I do know that I didn't have this problem at all in Chromosome! So they could simply undo whatever they did to the "strafe" ability.
Wolfica Planetary Response Organization 24	Posted - 2013.06.13 08:32:00 - [28] - Quote um im most definitely sure I could shoot when moving side ways during the beta,
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 160	Posted - 2013.06.13 08:38:00 - [29] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: No, but they shouldn't be able to 1 or 2 step strafe back and forth directly in my 2000 RPM line of fire without taking any damage whatsoever. Furthermore, I keep saying I never have this problem until ppl start the back and forth 2 step bullet dodging B.S. "tactic", tell me what about that is so difficult to understand? Strafing is not a legitimate battle tactic IDC how many video games it have included it! Normal soldiers take cover when taking enemy fire, they don't stand out in the open and dodge bullets by doing the 2 step! OMFG what a novel idea - taking cover, why whoever would of thought of that!!!! ^^this. Strafing is a legitimate tactic used even in real life situation mostly in CQC, but the idea is a mobile target is harder to hit tha a stationary one, also strafing is normally done while moving toward cover, plus you can run and shoot in real life. however, you are right that stepping back and forth in the same spot should not allow you to dodge bullets because it is impossible (because you basically in the same spot....lol) again, the two-step strafe is a tactic that takes advantage of a glitch in the hit detection, which is not designed to be a tactic in the game. so inshort [b] strafing = legit; using the two-step to tactic advantage of glitches = no
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 201	Posted - 2013.06.13 08:38:00 - [30] - Quote Well whether the issue is strafing or strafing or a combination of, My bullets were not hitting target despite having accurate aim, being spooled up completely, in my optimal range and environment. You should not be able to "strafe" back and forth infront of a 2000 RPM minigun and receive no damage. Take from that whatever you want.



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