|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
783
   |
Posted - 2013.06.14 20:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think it makes sense for it to have a little more recoil. I'd be fine with it shifting in relation to movement and position.
For instance, crouched/not-moving minimum recoil while ADS, slowly builds if you hold down full auto.
Not crouched, but not moving either; recoil builds quicker, but first few shots of a full auto (a burst basically) are mostly on target - but not as accurate as a burst AR.
Moving, ADS; recoil should ramp up after first shot. Moving, not ADS; recoil from the get-go.
Something like that I guess. As-is, the point of using a "burst" rifle isn't quite there because you put more rounds down more accurately when ADS with a full-auto. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
787
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 17:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'd assume all the ARs have some sort of balancing element that's intended to be a drawback. To a certain extent this is provided by range, and damage type.
Optimally:
Gallente Plasma: Short-range, full-auto rifle, hybrid-balanced shield/armor dmg (slightly higher to shields?)
Minmatar Combat: Short-Mid range, burst rifle, projectile-greater armor than shield dmg
Amarr Scrambler: Mid range, tactical rifle, laser-greater shield than armor dmg
Caldari Rail: mid-long range, breach rifle , hybrid-balanced shield/armor dmg (slightly higher to armor perhaps?)
That's... roughly the sort of intent they've described. The AR (Plasma) should excel in short-range engagements with high rate of fire and damage. The Scrambler (laser) is intended to be more apt at longer range precision attacks, and so on. All the rifles will supposedly get variants that ape the traits of some of the other rifles, but you'd presume that the racial rifle would be the best at it's optimal role (or that the weapon traits would bleed over into the variant).
All the rifles presumably have drawbacks that prevent them from being perfect as well. The scrambler has dispersion on a very large margin with the assault variant. The scrambler can also overheat (though if what people say about the heat being per-second instead of per-shot is true, they should probably fix that). So, the scrambler has some built-in drawbacks. The heat (damaging the user) is a big one - and can probably be worked into all variants.
Now, it's hard to say what the drawbacks of the Combat or Rail rifle are supposed to be, since we haven't seen them. We should probably still ask what the drawbacks of the plasma rifle are supposed to be. What's "bad" with the AR if you just unload clip, etc.? Because if the recoil is such that it's a non-issue on fully unloading a clip with razor accuracy... why would you use something else?
In that sense, I think this thread has a point - the AR isn't meant to be perfect. Buffing everything else isn't necessarily a solution either. I still think people sometimes suffer from the idea that everything in the game should kill people quicker. This isn't that kind of shooter - it's a more old-school game where gunning down people is more time consuming (as we wear custom armored & shielded suits).
I already made some suggestions for recoil earlier, but if recoil/kick are meant to be an issue at all with the AR - they're mostly non-existent right now. If recoil/kick are going to be more of a "Combat rifle" issue (or whatever), then some consideration should be given to what the AR's drawback -should- be. If all the new rifles have drawbacks, and the AR does not... that implies issues with balance. Removing all the drawbacks might "balance" things in a way, but at the expense of giving the weapons character. If the AR is the no-drawback weapon, it implies it should be the weakest.
I'd rather AR wasn't the weakest, or at least... that things be balanced so that it can dominate at its intended role (short range, high rof/damage encounters) while not showing up other weapons in theirs. If the AR is better at burst than the Combat rifle, that's bad. We probably don't need to worry about the breach version being better than anything at this point - but that's a separate issue. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
800
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 03:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cass Barr wrote:The problem with modeling recoil on real life, and games that pretend to mimic it, is that it on only takes 1-3 hits to do the job there. It takes 10-20 or more hits to kill a good suit here. While they may need adjusting (and that's a point I'm not sure I agree with), modeling them after the performance of actual AR's isn't how to do it; they aren't even assault rifles to begin with.
This is true. The minmatar combat rifle will be the closest thing to an actual AR, in terms of it being a straight-up projectile weapon. Even then, it's a super futuristic one, and may have more in common with "autocannons" or what-not. A plasma rifle isn't an M4 Carbine, it shoots plasma with a 60 round magazine.
I do think (as per my previous posts) that recoil and other issues need to be weighed. That's not an issue of being "true-to-life" or "Like other games' ARs" or whatever. It's purely a balance issue in that we're weighing weapons against each other for relative strengths and drawbacks. The idea is to give them niches, parity, and not have one gun be the end-all gun.
In real life (or even some other shooters), the progression is often made so that you proceed to some later gun that is in fact the best-possible gun. Dust seems to be striving for something more akin to balance across multiple tiers of weapons and situation utility and strength. You may progress to the most powerful gun for a given situation (the best sniper rifle, say), but it shouldn't be equivalent to progressing to a gun that is the best in most/all situations (like a pre-patch TAR that ruled at pretty much anything BUT sniper range, but is now just a strong long-range rifle). |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
828
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 21:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Revelations 514 wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:~the cut of my jib~ This was actually put really well. Better than I could put it to say the least. Can we replace my First Post with this actually?
You can edit your post and paste things if you really want.
|
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
828
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 21:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:and yet these still taer through heavy suits like butter
I think this thread gets to that point in a way. If you can put a highly accurate stream of fire anywhere, you can drop a heavy quicky. With an AR, you can use the RoF of something like a Duvolle AR, ADS, and enough of those rounds aimed at a head drop anything quickly. The recoil issue is part of that. It's also why that sort of tactic works better than burst I think, despite the fact burst-fire is conventionally a means of keeping accuracy up in comparison to full-auto. In that sense, the game mechanics are a little borked.
How much of that should be directed at dispersion vs. recoil is a matter for debate. Dispersion amounts to your shots not necessarily going where you aim, regardless of your skill. Recoil means failure to control your rate of fire will make your aim suffer, probably to a somewhat similar effect. The gun has both in theory... |
|
|
| |
|