DUST Search - Armor Vs Shields, food for thought on weapons.

Zero Harpuia wrote:

In the everlasting forumwars of Armor Vs Shields, there can be no victor. I am not out to prove one side correct, nor superior, to the other. I am only out to bring a simple idea to the forefront of your minds.

In Dust514, at time of typing, we have four methods of tanking. Shield, where you sacrifice a decent amount of CPU for a decent amount of regenerating shield HP, Armor, where you sacrifice speed and a bit of CPU and PG for a large amount of non-regenerating armor HP, Speed, where you throw on Kinetic Catalyzers to try and move faster than your enemies can reliably aim, and Crate, because that good old crate has infinite HP and is kind enough to let you hide behind it. When we think about these methods of tank there is always a bit of whining, and not all of it is useless prattle. Shields, for example, have modules on both high and low slots, and Armor does give alot more permodule than shields, and yes, Speed tanking is sometimes as much about fooling the hit detection as it is about fooling your foe's gun hand. But that isn't what we're here for as there are millions of threads out there about these topics. We're here to discuss weapons vs HP tanking.

A quick run through all existing anti infantry weapons.
Judging by appearance and inability to customize ammo, Projectile weapons seem to use Titanium Sabot or simple Lead.

Assault Rifle: Hybrid, equally good against shield and armor
Scrambler Rifle: Laser, does most damage to shield, poor on armor
Laser Rifle: Laser, does most damage to shield, poor on armor
Sniper Rifle: Hybrid, equally good against shield and armor
Shotgun: Hybrid, equally good against shield and armor
Mass Driver: Rocket, does most damage to armor, poor on shields
HMG: Projectile, decent against shields, mildly better on armor
SMG: Projectile, decent against shields, mildly better on armor
Scrambler Pistol: Laser, does most damage to shield, poor on armor
Flaylock Pistol: Rocket, does most damage to armor, poor on shields
Nova Knife: Wanna say Hybrid here, but not too sure.
Locus grenade: Explosion Bomb, High damage to armor, low to shield.
Flux Grenade: EM Bomb, High damage to shield, none to armor.

As for Vehicles

Railgun Turret: Hybrid, equally good against shield and armor
Blaster Turret: Hybrid, equally good against shield and armor
Missile Turret: Rocket, does most damage to armor, poor on shields
Swarm Launcher: Missile, does most damage to armor, poor on shields
Forge Gun: Hybrid, equally good against shield and armor
Plasma Cannon: Hybrid, equally good against shield and armor
AV Grenade: Explosion Bomb, High damage to armor, low to shield.

When looking at them like this, there seems to be a discrepancy that many overlook. It may not be that Shields are Overpowered, but that there are proportionately less shield-focused weapons. Not a single AV weapon is shield-hunting unless you use Flux Grenades, and all of the anti-shield Infantry guns are pinpoint weaponry, or the Flux Grenade, which is of limited supply and has a four second delay as opposed to the anti-armor weapons which can auto-seek their targets, have large AoE, and of course the infamous contact locus grenades.

I propose, brothers and sisters of New Eden, that we pressure CCP for one of three features to be added soon
1. Ammo Type choice. Imagine an HMG with EM rounds, a Mass Driver with Mjolnir Rockets, or a Laser Rifle with mid-battle filter swaps. Either make them something you choose at the fitting screen when you attach your weapons, or make them highslot active modules you can swap midcombat. Why High? Because then you'd have to choose between a Damage Mod and Ammo Mod, and there are far more kinds of low modules than high modules.
2. More Amarr Weaponry. We need more Laser type weapons to take down shields, and Amarr are the most prolific laser users. We especially need the painfully absent Laser AV and Laser Turret, and a weak Prototype Contact Flux grenade would be a nice counterpart to the Contact Locus.
3. Public PvE. Fighting bots will distract us long enough for them to make one of the other two features :3

Please do not hesitate to comment, critique, and please, this is NOT ABOUT the CalLogi.


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reydient TYRANNY of EVIL MEN 2	Posted - 2013.06.12 18:46:00 - [1] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: In the everlasting forumwars of Armor Vs Shields, there can be no victor. I am not out to prove one side correct, nor superior, to the other. I am only out to bring a simple idea to the forefront of your minds. In Dust514, at time of typing, we have four methods of tanking. Shield, where you sacrifice a decent amount of CPU for a decent amount of regenerating shield HP, Armor, where you sacrifice speed and a bit of CPU and PG for a large amount of non-regenerating armor HP, Speed, where you throw on Kinetic Catalyzers to try and move faster than your enemies can reliably aim, and Crate, because that good old crate has infinite HP and is kind enough to let you hide behind it. When we think about these methods of tank there is always a bit of whining, and not all of it is useless prattle. Shields, for example, have modules on both high and low slots, and Armor does give alot more permodule than shields, and yes, Speed tanking is sometimes as much about fooling the hit detection as it is about fooling your foe's gun hand. But that isn't what we're here for as there are millions of threads out there about these topics. We're here to discuss weapons vs HP tanking. A quick run through all existing anti infantry weapons. Judging by appearance and inability to customize ammo, Projectile weapons seem to use Titanium Sabot or simple Lead. Assault Rifle: Hybrid, equally good against shield and armor Scrambler Rifle: Laser, does most damage to shield, poor on armor Laser Rifle: Laser, does most damage to shield, poor on armor Sniper Rifle: Hybrid, equally good against shield and armor Shotgun: Hybrid, equally good against shield and armor Mass Driver: Rocket, does most damage to armor, poor on shields HMG: Projectile, decent against shields, mildly better on armor SMG: Projectile, decent against shields, mildly better on armor Scrambler Pistol: Laser, does most damage to shield, poor on armor Flaylock Pistol: Rocket, does most damage to armor, poor on shields Nova Knife: Wanna say Hybrid here, but not too sure. Locus grenade: Explosion Bomb, High damage to armor, low to shield. Flux Grenade: EM Bomb, High damage to shield, none to armor. As for Vehicles Railgun Turret: Hybrid, equally good against shield and armor Blaster Turret: Hybrid, equally good against shield and armor Missile Turret: Rocket, does most damage to armor, poor on shields Swarm Launcher: Missile, does most damage to armor, poor on shields Forge Gun: Hybrid, equally good against shield and armor Plasma Cannon: Hybrid, equally good against shield and armor AV Grenade: Explosion Bomb, High damage to armor, low to shield. When looking at them like this, there seems to be a discrepancy that many overlook. It may not be that Shields are Overpowered, but that there are proportionately less shield-focused weapons. Not a single AV weapon is shield-hunting unless you use Flux Grenades, and all of the anti-shield Infantry guns are pinpoint weaponry, or the Flux Grenade, which is of limited supply and has a four second delay as opposed to the anti-armor weapons which can auto-seek their targets, have large AoE, and of course the infamous contact locus grenades. I propose, brothers and sisters of New Eden, that we pressure CCP for one of three features to be added soon 1. Ammo Type choice. Imagine an HMG with EM rounds, a Mass Driver with Mjolnir Rockets, or a Laser Rifle with mid-battle filter swaps. Either make them something you choose at the fitting screen when you attach your weapons, or make them highslot active modules you can swap midcombat. Why High? Because then you'd have to choose between a Damage Mod and Ammo Mod, and there are far more kinds of low modules than high modules. 2. More Amarr Weaponry. We need more Laser type weapons to take down shields, and Amarr are the most prolific laser users. We especially need the painfully absent Laser AV and Laser Turret, and a weak Prototype Contact Flux grenade would be a nice counterpart to the Contact Locus. 3. Public PvE. Fighting bots will distract us long enough for them to make one of the other two features :3 Please do not hesitate to comment, critique, and please, this is NOT ABOUT the CalLogi. This is a great idea! I say different ammo types.