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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4291
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
There are cool things that Dust does right. Items depleting when you die create good risk vs reward in choosing what to use, the ability to call in vehicles whenever and wherever you want, and the deep skill system, and a persistent universe where corporations of players can conquer planets. There are more negatives (at this point at least) sadly.
Dust's gameplay is very basic and generic, the only thing really special about the shooter gameplay is the ability to call in vehicles to one's location. Back when we were first introduced to Dust 514 in 2009, it was suppose to be a 64 player minimum game with MCC commanders directing troops like an RTS, and player-deployed installations. Other than that its just the same things we have experience before in other shooters, no wow factor. That would be forgivable and all if it actually played well and had the basics down to build upon, but that is not the case; frame rate issues, bad controls, and sticky terrain, bugged mass driver, and bugged nanite injector, are one of many problems that get in the way get in the way of the enjoyment. I can play 64 player MAG battles with better frame rate.
The balance is also terrible: 1MPH instant kill LAV impacts, useless weapons that make you feel like you wasted your precious SP (laser rifle, etc), 1-hit kill contact grenades (the best of which is pay-to-win). The bad matchmaking allows for veterans with large SP advantage to completely stomp on players fresh out of Instant Battle Academy, and the SP differences are made even worse because SP limits what you're allowed to use instead of giving bonuses.
If gameplay and balance is bad, why expect players to stick around and have the patience for the complexities and grindfest?
The game modes are nothing we haven't seen before, just team deathmatches and control-point capture with a bunch of variants that never truly change anything. Having only 2 bland generic modes really add to the sense that the game is nothing special. We actually had an interesting and fairly unique mode (Skirmish 1.0), but they removed it instead of fixing it; I know its coming back some undisclosed time in the future (SOON lol), but this is about the current state of Dust.
The actual locations you fight in are all pretty boring and few. Only 6 maps, and only 3 outposts (what people usually call "cities") which is made even worse by the fact that we are suppose to be fighting on thousands of planets; it doesn't even come close to feeling like we have planetary variety. The terrain itself is boring, no canyons like the craterlake map which we played Skirmish 1.0, no underground tunnels or caves, not any kind of geological features to make things feel interesting.
Dust isn't a great looking game either. The lighting is beautiful, and the actual terrain looks good IMO, but the artificial structures like buildings, vehicles, and basically everything else suffer from horrible texture loading, and bad textures in general. Dust is by no means an impressive looking game, in fact I think MAG (a game that did 256 player battles on PS3 3 years ago) still has better textures than Dust.
This isn't just an FPS, it is also an MMO tied to EVE Online, so it can't just be judged by its FPS gameplay. This is an MMO ywt it launched without PVE... W.T.F? This is even more of a disappointment since last year's Fanfest said that PVE would be here by 2012. There is no social hubs to interact with other players like in other MMOs. There isn't even basic trading yet. The EVE is trivial at best right now; the premise of the game was that us mercenaries could be hired by EVE players to attack and defend their economically important planetary sites, but the game did not launch with that.
If had had to judge Dust by its current state, a 5/10 would seem fair, if not a little generous.
It won't always be like that. Dust will improve, gameplay will be fixed and refined, PVE will come, Skirmish 1.0 will be back, boarding EVE ships will give greater connections between Dust and EVE, more maps/map elements will come, new equipment like cloak field and the infantry active modules will spice up gameplay to make it more interesting, and there are possible 0 gravity environments coming. That is all great, but it will take years, and until then we're just suppose to hope and imagine the distant future while playing the current crappy game?
Dust will improve, but so will games in general. I have a feeling that Dust will always be playing catch up when it comes to the actual gameplay. Example: That commander mode that Dust was uppose to have, MAG had it, BF4 has it, and other games will have it, and by this time this long planned feature actually comes to Dust, it will just be anything exciting or impressive. I guess being stuck playing catch up is kind of forgivable considering its a free game and all. |
Kinky Burrito
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. ROFL BROS
12
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Posted - 2013.06.11 20:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Improve? I think the game is getting worse. I enjoyed chromosome a lot more than uprising. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
1345
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kinky Burrito wrote:Improve? I think the game is getting worse. I enjoyed chromosome a lot more than uprising. Replication > All! |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
641
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
A fair write up based on the present state of affairs.
This, people, is how constructive critisim, is done right. |
Velvet Overkill
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
109
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Kinky Burrito wrote:Improve? I think the game is getting worse. I enjoyed chromosome a lot more than uprising. Replication > All! ^ This!
Skirmish 1.0 and that 1 map was sooooo great, nothing even comes close those. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
1346
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Velvet Overkill wrote:Cosgar wrote:Kinky Burrito wrote:Improve? I think the game is getting worse. I enjoyed chromosome a lot more than uprising. Replication > All! ^ This! Skirmish 1.0 and that 1 map was sooooo great, nothing even comes close those. Everything flowed so fast, scouts were strafing gods, heavies and tanks were actually feared, swarm launchers... eh, let's just forget swarm launchers... |
StubbyDucky
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
187
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
TL:DR
Current state - garbage
Future of DUST 514 - garbage |
Avinash Decker
BetaMax. CRONOS.
45
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:There are cool things that Dust does right. Items depleting when you die create good risk vs reward in choosing what to use, the ability to call in vehicles whenever and wherever you want, and the deep skill system, and a persistent universe where corporations of players can conquer planets. There are more negatives (at this point at least) sadly. Dust's gameplay is very basic and generic, the only thing really special about the shooter gameplay is the ability to call in vehicles to one's location. Back when we were first introduced to Dust 514 in 2009, it was suppose to be a 64 player minimum game with MCC commanders directing troops like an RTS, and player-deployed installations. Other than that its just the same things we have experience before in other shooters, no wow factor. That would be forgivable and all if it actually played well and had the basics down to build upon, but that is not the case; frame rate issues, bad controls, and sticky terrain, bugged mass driver, and bugged nanite injector, are one of many problems that get in the way get in the way of the enjoyment. I can play 64 player MAG battles with better frame rate. The balance is also terrible: 1MPH instant kill LAV impacts, useless weapons that make you feel like you wasted your precious SP (laser rifle, etc), 1-hit kill contact grenades (the best of which is pay-to-win). The bad matchmaking allows for veterans with large SP advantage to completely stomp on players fresh out of Instant Battle Academy, and the SP differences are made even worse because SP limits what you're allowed to use instead of giving bonuses. If gameplay and balance is bad, why expect players to stick around and have the patience for the complexities and grindfest? The game modes are nothing we haven't seen before, just team deathmatches and control-point capture with a bunch of variants that never truly change anything. Having only 2 bland generic modes really add to the sense that the game is nothing special. We actually had an interesting and fairly unique mode (Skirmish 1.0), but they removed it instead of fixing it; I know its coming back some undisclosed time in the future (SOON lol), but this is about the current state of Dust. The actual locations you fight in are all pretty boring and few. Only 6 maps, and only 3 outposts (what people usually call "cities") which is made even worse by the fact that we are suppose to be fighting on thousands of planets; it doesn't even come close to feeling like we have planetary variety. The terrain itself is boring, no canyons like the craterlake map which we played Skirmish 1.0, no underground tunnels or caves, not any kind of geological features to make things feel interesting. Dust isn't a great looking game either. The lighting is beautiful, and the actual terrain looks good IMO, but the artificial structures like buildings, vehicles, and basically everything else suffer from horrible texture loading, and bad textures in general. Dust is by no means an impressive looking game, in fact I think MAG (a game that did 256 player battles on PS3 3 years ago) still has better textures than Dust. This isn't just an FPS, it is also an MMO tied to EVE Online, so it can't just be judged by its FPS gameplay. This is an MMO ywt it launched without PVE... W.T.F? This is even more of a disappointment since last year's Fanfest said that PVE would be here by 2012. There is no social hubs to interact with other players like in other MMOs. There isn't even basic trading yet. The EVE is trivial at best right now; the premise of the game was that us mercenaries could be hired by EVE players to attack and defend their economically important planetary sites, but the game did not launch with that. If had had to judge Dust by its current state, a 5/10 would seem fair, if not a little generous. It won't always be like that. Dust will improve, gameplay will be fixed and refined, PVE will come, Skirmish 1.0 will be back, boarding EVE ships will give greater connections between Dust and EVE, more maps/map elements will come, new equipment like cloak field and the infantry active modules will spice up gameplay to make it more interesting, and there are possible 0 gravity environments coming. That is all great, but it will take years, and until then we're just suppose to hope and imagine the distant future while playing the current crappy game? Dust will improve, but so will games in general. I have a feeling that Dust will always be playing catch up when it comes to the actual gameplay. Example: That commander mode that Dust was uppose to have, MAG had it, BF4 has it, and other games will have it, and by this time this long planned feature actually comes to Dust, it will just be anything exciting or impressive. I guess being stuck playing catch up is kind of forgivable considering its a free game and all.
The whole die and lose your gear is kinda meaningless to me now. I have about over 20 million isk from the close beta and I never went below that despite running prototype and advanced gear mostly. |
Gregor stormwalker
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
38
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
I do so hate to say it but that is a fair assessment, when the ps4 comes out i won't be abandoning dust thats for sure after sinking this much time into but other game will probably get some of my attention i have a feeling that if dust players moved to say destiny rivalry's would probable move with them (as it did with mag-dust if i understand) but I will always hold onto the hope that dust can become more
ps.Im calling now that if dust works out the next game to join new eden will be a one off payment racing game with corps building tracks on planets (as PI) and hosting tournaments across the universe for isk and the races broadcast to enable betting (sorry for the off topic) |
McFurious
BetaMax. CRONOS.
95
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP could have avoided all of this flak they're getting if they didn't call Uprising the release version instead of "Planetary Conquest Beta" |
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iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
647
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gregor stormwalker wrote:I do so hate to say it but that is a fair assessment, when the ps4 comes out i won't be abandoning dust thats for sure after sinking this much time into but other game will probably get some of my attention i have a feeling that if dust players moved to say destiny rivalry's would probable move with them (as it did with mag-dust if i understand) but I will always hold onto the hope that dust can become more
ps.Im calling now that if dust works out the next game to join new eden will be a one off payment racing game with corps building tracks on planets (as PI) and hosting tournaments across the universe for isk and the races broadcast to enable betting (sorry for the off topic)
Can't you play both games?
Why does it have to be one or the other.
And nah your wrong about the next game: the next game will be some sort of sim city type deal with planetary governers on the mobile platform. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4297
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
McFurious wrote:CCP could have avoided all of this flak they're getting if they didn't call Uprising the release version instead of "Planetary Conquest Beta" Calling it release was a terrible idea indeed. |
Gregor stormwalker
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
38
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
iceyburnz wrote:Gregor stormwalker wrote:I do so hate to say it but that is a fair assessment, when the ps4 comes out i won't be abandoning dust thats for sure after sinking this much time into but other game will probably get some of my attention i have a feeling that if dust players moved to say destiny rivalry's would probable move with them (as it did with mag-dust if i understand) but I will always hold onto the hope that dust can become more
ps.Im calling now that if dust works out the next game to join new eden will be a one off payment racing game with corps building tracks on planets (as PI) and hosting tournaments across the universe for isk and the races broadcast to enable betting (sorry for the off topic) Can't you play both games? Why does it have to be one or the other. And nah your wrong about the next game: the next game will be some sort of sim city type deal with planetary governers on the mobile platform.
o i will be. as i said i will not give up on dust, i will be here for years. but iv been playing dust exclusively for a year now (E3 build i got in by being one of the first X number into the dust area) im just saying other games will get a small look in now if my wallet allows, my god imagine a dust super clan landing on one of these games on day one.
next game: that could work will there be a facebook mining game or is that just going to far ( should not give them more ideas I think CCP have enough of there own to deal with) |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
120
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Avinash Decker wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:-snip- The whole die and lose your gear is kinda meaningless to me now. I have about over 20 million isk from the close beta and I never went below that despite running prototype and advanced gear mostly.
That's because ISK in DUST doesn't have any tangible value: we are in general being showered in ISK compared to how much needs to be spent. This would essentially be the Fed printing money despite money demand being low since prices are low.
Enabling player trade would go a long way to aid in fighting this. Players determine how much money a given item is worth: if there's a lot of money in circulation, they will set the price higher. Affordability tends to equal out, and while it won't sink ISK out of the economy, it will at least cause it to change hands - it will cause market velocity.
Market velocity is a huge factor in determining value for a currency.
Say for instance that you spend 5 million ISK on a single Officer sniper rifle; the 5 million spent go to the person who sold you the weapon, who might then use it on a couple of pimped tanks (these are NPC supplied) or an officer forge gun (player supplied through loot drops). Eventually, the ISK will sink out of the economy through sinks (NPC orders).
However, you just spent 5 million on that rifle; and losing it is going to hurt. Why 5 million? Because that's how much it was determined by the market (players) to be sold at, because there is an equilibrium of supply and demand at that price point.
Suddenly, ISK has value because the items you buy from players are priced at levels that are significant enough to be considered worth it (someone had to grind for that rifle, he wants 5 million for it). |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
457
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Decent summary.
You sort of lost track of the utter failure to provide "meta" game in the form of FW and PC having any impact back and forth between Eve and Dust514. Players also don't care about either PC or FW since they are still so limited in development.
The failure to provide improvement on skirmish 1.0 is, in many ways, the Dust teams most profound visionary failure beyond their basic mechanical FPS failures. The current game modes are trivial and forgettable. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1920
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 23:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:Decent summary.
You sort of lost track of the utter failure to provide "meta" game in the form of FW and PC having any impact back and forth between Eve and Dust514. Players also don't care about either PC or FW since they are still so limited in development.
The failure to provide improvement on skirmish 1.0 is, in many ways, the Dust teams most profound visionary failure beyond their basic mechanical FPS failures. The current game modes are trivial and forgettable.
|
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4306
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 02:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
I remember when I first played Skirmish 2.0, I thought the old Skirmish would also be there somewhere, and that Skirmish just came in many flavors. I was very disappointed upon realizing that it was not the case. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4306
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 03:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
I don't know if the state of Dust is because of lack of funds, lack of manpower, incompetence, or some combination. |
Andius Fidelitas
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
71
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 03:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
I concur with the honorable OP. A good summary of the present state of this game. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
576
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 04:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
+1 Kagehoshi. Agreed on virtually all points. 4/10 atm is what seems fair to me - the state of the core mechanics swamp any of the other issues, imo. |
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
577
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 04:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I don't know if the state of Dust is because of lack of funds, lack of manpower, incompetence, or some combination. I suppose we've all been thinking about this lately, and what probable causes might be.
High on my list is the tinfoil hat intuition that resources are being diverted somewhere else. Perhaps fear and desperation is just slowly pushing me out to the deep end, dunno yet ;)
Other than that, lack of manpower coupled with the fact the task at hand is a phenomenal technical challenge by any measure are what come to mind in my more lucid moments.
And i honestly believe that if mighty development houses like Blizzard or Bungie met, on some dark night, the technical monster that CCP is locked in mortal combat with, they would turn around and slink away as quietly as possible. Because they are too old and wise to pick that fight, and they just don't have the balls or the backbone for it now, if they ever did. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4324
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 18:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I don't know if the state of Dust is because of lack of funds, lack of manpower, incompetence, or some combination. I suppose we've all been thinking about this lately, and what probable causes might be. High on my list is the tinfoil hat intuition that resources are being diverted somewhere else. Perhaps fear and desperation is just slowly pushing me out to the deep end, dunno yet ;) Other than that, lack of manpower coupled with the fact the task at hand is a phenomenal technical challenge by any measure are what come to mind in my more lucid moments. And i honestly believe that if mighty development houses like Blizzard or Bungie met, on some dark night, the technical monster that CCP is locked in mortal combat with, they would turn around and slink away as quietly as possible. Because they are too old and wise to pick that fight, and they just don't have the balls or the backbone for it now, if they ever did. The thing is though, the huge technical challenge is not where CCP has been failing (mostly), its mostly the shooter part that others tend to get right. |
Zahle Undt
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
175
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 19:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:Decent summary.
You sort of lost track of the utter failure to provide "meta" game in the form of FW and PC having any impact back and forth between Eve and Dust514. Players also don't care about either PC or FW since they are still so limited in development.
The failure to provide improvement on skirmish 1.0 is, in many ways, the Dust teams most profound visionary failure beyond their basic mechanical FPS failures. The current game modes are trivial and forgettable.
For me this bolded section is the absolute truth and my biggest problem with Dust 514 and why yesterday after seeing the new trailer I became pretty angry (at least for me, but I'm a mostly mellow guy). The new trailer highlighted what brought me to Dust after I had avoided multiplayer FPS games or so many years, it is supposed to mean something. Right now though it means nothing, PC as it currently works id just corp battles you can't duck and fighting for....I don't know what we are fighting for, reputation and ISK I guess, except the system is broken and PC battles are often laggy to the point of not being able to even enjoy the fun of playing with 15 of your buddies vs. 16 other guys.
If Dust is having an affect on EVE or EVE on Dust I sure as hell am not seeing it, which to me makes this game as pointless as BF, CoD, Halo, or any other multiplayer shooter, except in those games the gameplay if pretty tight at least! Somewhere from concept to beta CCP went from all in connectivity to "making sure each game can stand alone" I don't know if the task got to be to great or if it was the complaining from the eggers that caused this shift, but it is to the detriment of the one thing that m akes your game different, which is the one things that will keep it worth playing.
Get a meaningful connection between Dust and Eve established soon(no f**king TM) CCP or give up and put your resources into the WoD MMO |
RoundEy3
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 19:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
Good post.
DUST is kind of like... When your kid says they have a major book report that counts for 80% of their final grade. The upcoming days pass, they say it's done, you've seen them reading and writing stuff down. Then the day before it's due they freak out because they haven't gotten past the 2nd chapter, and all they were writing down was nothing but drawings of ninjas and stick figures getting sliced up....
Yeah.... It kind of seems like that when you look back. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4338
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 23:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Aside from the obvious fixes, I think the addition of PVE would be the greatest one thing that could be done to alleviate the situation. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4352
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 16:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'm hoping someone will convince me otherwise regarding the comparatively mediocre gameplay of the future. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3679
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 16:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'm getting sick and tired of hearing about DUST's future from CCP, I want to hear about what they're doing NOW to make the game worth playing, especially in light of all these new, real AAA FPS shooters on the horizon. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4369
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 19:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I'm getting sick and tired of hearing about DUST's future from CCP, I want to hear about what they're doing NOW to make the game worth playing, especially in light of all these new, real AAA FPS shooters on the horizon.
I have a list of revealed stuff that's coming in 1.2 or soon after 1.2
UI menu/accessibility improvement Weapon range system improvement combat rifle pilot spec commando spec snow/ice terrain terrain textures Other terrain texture set starry skybox About 1 "rapid fire" update every month; enhancements to game welcome screen: progression, emails, corp members online, events, corp battle. Switch squads more easily Daily bonuses Battle finder improvement Aiming and movement improvement Matchmaking takes into account player preference, intra-team balancing, gear based matching, friend matching Destroyer vehicle spec; fast turn rate on turret, faster repeating fire Crater terrain. research outpost (GA) production outpost (CA) Engine tweaks
Most of it sounds good (YAY SNOW/ICE), and the aiming thing sounds like a step in the right direction. I really doubt it will fix frame rate issues though, hit detection, the crippling lack of game mode variety (especially the lack of PVE), or lack of meaningful connection to EVE. More maps and outposts is always good though. The frequency of meaningful improvements hopefully will increase with the rapid fire update.
Something else depressing is that CCP LogicLoop keeps pushing to get Skirmish 1.0 a priority, but he seems alone in it. The others don't seem to think its a big priority right now. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4374
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 14:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I'm hoping someone will convince me otherwise regarding the comparatively mediocre gameplay of the future. So far no one has |
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