I just saw it an actually laughed out loud.

Well numbers are easy to change at least...

This is a pathetic attempt to fix the balance.

Why do they insist upon giving armor tanking a negative movement speed when it is the least useful tank in the game? Why make it even less useful?


Incomprehensible...

I'm not seeing enough Murder Taxis, is this even a Dust trailer?

Wait, what? What did you expect from these two new armors? 60 for complex is almost as much as a complex shield extender, did you honestly expect it to eb MORE than a shield extender? 45 + 2 regen is in between enhanced and complex shield regen AND gives you a small armor regen. Keep in mind, the difference between a small armor regen that can top you off after fights and no armor regen is huge.

These things seem INCREDIBLY balanced. What were you expecting? More health than shield but no penalties too? Maybe, just to placate some weird feelings, they shouldve made then equal to the shield extenders but meh, they are pretty damned close. There is very little chance another 6 health from a module will be the difference between a shot killing you or not.

I did the math a little while ago. and meh its balance. 5 complex reactive plates =225 HP 10hp per second with 10%(I didn't do the math but im guessing it lower with penalties for stacking) speed penalty. so two complex 115=230 hp with 2 complex repairers for 10hp you get more speed penalty. but with even a slight bonus to either hp or repair rates they are more powerful. I used 50 hp with 3hp repaired and you get 250hp with 15 hps with less speed penalty and more hp then a fit of 2 complex plates with 3 repairers. so just something different to think about for you armor guys.

Complex SHield mods are 54/11, how is 40/14 unbalanced? You get about the same health for 3 more PG and 14 less cpu. This allows you to be way more flexible with your builds. Hell, overall the fitting usage is lower on these mods. The 3 PG difference means up 21.4% of the PG usages, the 14 CPU usage makes up 29% of the CPU usage.

So your total fitting is easier with these armor plates...

I honestly dont see a problem at all and these seem perfect, if anything they are a bit OP since they allow such flexibiliy on builds. Gallante scouts seem way more viable now.

Yes because you have the OPTION of going big on armor and getting a speed penalty, or you forsake that speed penalty and get about the same health. You have the option of getting regen with your armor as well, taking two slots instead of 1.

Shield regen is delayed, armor is instant. Shield regen doesnt have repair tools to help it, Armor does.

Honestly, you guys have no idea what you are talking about if you think these look UP. They seem absolutely amazing and open up a world of possibilities for my builds I never had before because I didnt want to sacrifice speed. Keep in mind they are also LOW slots, not high. What modules are competiting for your low slots? Shield extenders have to compete with damage mods.

Come on, use your heads here. If you could stack armor mods with no penalty over shield you would because then you could fit damage mods too. Armor regen is different, and perhaps a bit worse, but it does have some advantages over shield regen.

Any more loud, wrong opinions you guys want to yell at me?

What were people expecting? Ferroscale is pretty much inline with shield extenders and is repairable by tools and such which is nice. Reactive plates are two modules in one, it's pretty generous actually.

didn't even care to balance vs shields because that's a different issue with all the modules of one type vs another type and that's about weighing pros and cons. besides armor has the repair tools. shields have one LLAV that's difficult to use. IMO shields vs armor is balanced due to pros and cons and equipment to deal/help with them.

I really enjoyed your post obviously a lot of thought went into it, i enjoyed the part where you complain and eloquently explain why by saying simply, terrible, magnificent! I also like the part where you explain what they can to to fix it in a helpful manner, really good stuff awesome read thanks. We need more people like you on these forum giving out thier insightful intellegent opinions.

Except you're getting shot at, so your shield doesnt regen at all, and all it takes is me landing a small hit on you to keep that regen from ever happening. Armor gets to keep repping. Plus armor tankers can carry nanos that can self heal. (if you dont, and you armror tank, you are bad at armor tanking) Plus armor tankers can have a logi heal you for 100+hp/s. Plus, armor tankers can run to supply depots and swap up for full health.

Armor rep isnt nearly as bad as you say. Passively shield is a bit better, yes, but if you take an active role in healing your armor you can do so very well, even supperior to shield. Be better at the game before talking about balance.

Math
Complex Reactive Plates: 45 armor, 2 hp/s, -4% movement
Complex Armor Plate: 115 armor, -10% movement
Complex Armor Repairer: 5 hp/s

2 Complex Reactive Plates: 90 armor, 4 hp/s, -8%movement
1 Complex armor plate and repairer: 115 armor, 5 hp/s, -10% movement

With the reactive plates you are a little faster, have nearly the same repair rate, but sacrifice 25 armor. Maybe doesn't sound too great, but it would only require training one skill and would be more ideal if you only had 1 low slot remaining.

as you can see I haven't made a post on there or even read a lick of it. I don't care that about the imbalance between shields and armor in infantry. the new modules are balanced within their type(armor infantry modules) and I dare you to prove me wrong and I won't even try to balance them out of their class because that makes no sense.

Current armor is fine. I know a ton of people who prefer armor tanking. Just because you can't handle a small movement decrease or have the will to stay with your team for armor repairing instead of running around solo doesn't mean it's bad.

Lol dude. Get a gun off the field? What are you talking about? Regen tanking isnt viable in DUST. ALL regen is too small to counter mroe than like 1 shot of damage with these kill times. The rep tools heals you AFTER the fight or AFTER you retreat, not during. My shield regen doesnt help when im getting shot at. It has a 4 second delay, 10 if it depletes, and the 20 or so a second doesnt negate the hundreds of damage per second coming my way.

I could see your problems if regen tanking was viable for shield but not for armor. Hell the only real regen tanking you can do is with the triage nanohives giving 70+ a second as you stand on it. Thats as close as we come in DUST to being able to do so. And geuss what, its with armor tankers, not shield.

I just want to point out that you are the only one in here completely flipping **** because you feel it's unbalanced. That's your opinion and you have a right to have it but damn dude take a chill, and remember it's Also OK for anyone to disagree.

Speed is life.

so you can't prove me wrong, thank you and have a nice day. the imbalance between shields and armor is totally different matter that I am not touching.

Armor tanking has advantages in EVE that do not exist in Dust. Shield tanking in EVE has drawbacks that do not exist in Dust.

Personally I think CCP needs to go back to the drawing board with their tanking concept, because EVE mechanics do not easily fit in an FPS, certainly not in present-day Dust.

Kitten, pointing to a massive thread that nobody is going to read and then claiming it invalidated everyones point is dumb. If you yourself have the brain power and reasoning to know why we are wrong, you have the ability to sum it up. But so far you keep focusing just on the weaknesses of armor and not its strengths.

Plus why do you care if shield versus armor tanking is better? Why cant one be better than the other? Every player has option to do either or both. They are in different slots so they arent "competiting" with eachother. It would be like arguing that damage mods are better than kin cat mods. Who cares? They dont compete.

There is no downside to running shield extenders, recharger, or regulators - zero downside.

None.

Zip.

Zilch.

Nada.

SUCH INCREDIBLE BALANCE!

I know why, because armor repairs at the speed of roadkill and the extenders for it make you move even slower. The speed debuff should either be racial or suit based - as in heavy's don't get a debuff or Gallente doesn't or something.

Also, if they ever get around to putting a downside on shield tanking, the scout should be the suit that has zero downside...

Like, you can make the modules work on every suit, but make them work more better-er on the suit they're intended for.

Look, its not that shields suck more than Armor... Its just. "Caldari Logis". And switching the shield bonus to Assault Caldari wont remedy it. There just needs to be a whole different bonus altogether.

I have no issue with the movement speed. Armour is IMO a great tank, better than those shield pussies who think they're all that.

The upside to a scout is supposed to be hit and run, get out of battle, get your shields back up, and go back in shooting.
Unfortunately, since your lowslots are all eaten up by plates, you can't stack repair modules - and even if you did it still takes forever for them to regen, where as a regulator and extender combo occupy opposite slots allowing for better min/max capabilities.

I will summarise. You will likely try to argue against this summary with an argument I have already countered in my thread, so it is still good reading material. I doubt you'll bother, though.

- Armour gets less HP than shields overall, unless they stack plates in which case they cannot rep and move at the speed of a heavy.
- Armour gets much much slower regen than shields, the constant regeneration does not compensate for this sufficiently.
- Having a logistics player use an armour rep prevents them from shooting their gun, which is significantly more useful.
- Armour moves slower than shields, making it easier to hit a player using armour
- A logistics repairer repairs at a similar rate to shield regen. Using the prototype focused rep in an example is extremely biased.

There are very few areas where armour beats shield. Can you give me an example of one?


At this point, you realise that your argument is weak/wrong, so you begin to say "who cares anyway?"

Believe it or not, I'd actually quite like to play a balanced game.

Oh please. I dont need to read some stupid thread that some wannabe physics major typed up.

Why? Because i actually play the game. My main is Amarrian. So yes i do know what the **** im talking about.

Im not going to waste my going back through the thread to see if you have anymore posts so i know where you are coming from, but its obvious you are a typical QQ'r who says everything is OP/UP when you die instead of just excepting the fact you got killed.

Instead of bringing in more crap, they need to just look back over the racial suit traits.

Oh and im sure you are the scientist who is going to tell me im wrong. Why dont you pick your tin foil hat up and carry on excepting everything that seems intelligent and true.

Well I asked for a blog about this but the Dev involved said he won't be able to do it until after vacation (Dragon Boat Festival) . As long as the plates are however functional the numbers can be changed later.

I do agree shields needs penalties but right now the sensors are all screwed up.

But the new armor dont have speed penalty and are pretty much equal to shield tanking. A little worse, but also a little less on the requirements and dont compete with damage mods.

Plus, and heres the big kicker, introducing penalty-less armor mods just opens up these mods to players who never would have used them before. Your caldari logi can now tank BOTH armor and shield without worrying about speed.

The debate of armor versus shield tanking seems relatively pointless since most suits can do some of both. The big questions are shield tanking versus damage mods and armor tanking versus speed tanking.

Right now it seems like shield tanking is a bit OP compared to damage mods, but not crazy. But speed tanking is way OP compared to armor tanking. Thats why you dont see armor a lot, it has very little to do with the balance between shield and armor.

Lol someones giving up easily. You are just mad. Give yourself a few days to un rustle your jimmies.

You think you know how everything should be, but balancing armor and shields is alot harder than what people make it out to be. Maybe if you could think harder about the outcome of some random change to Shield/Armor and how it effects the game itself instead of you personally... you may come up with a conclusion.

LOL you all do realize that the stuff in this video is still a good two-three years out of being released right?

No need to get all worked up about it yet.

LOL

I think he was making a joke :p

Indeed. Like I said, it's not the best way to disseminate information and I promise you we're trying really really hard to keep things like this from happening and get you information on changes and additions the game out in a timely and appropriate manner (definitely for real this time, honest!)

There's a simple and beautiful answer here - armor resistance amplifiers.

Make the ability to modify resistance to damage types the advantage that armor has over sheilds. Make it a lowslot module so it competes with plates for slots.

The Amarr solve this problem by shield tanking.

If this is an attempt to make armor tanking more viable it sadly misses the point by a long shot. You're still far better off with basic plates than wasting PG/CPU on this.

To fix armor tanking just do what you've already promised (but evidently forgotten); reduce movement penalty.

Reducing the penalty would just make it easier for all suits to stack plates, the best way to fix it is to penalize Armor tanks less by giving them specific racial bonuses to the usage of armor modules.