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demonkiller 12 BetaMax. CRONOS. 27	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:25:00 - [31] - Quote Tankin Tarkus wrote: you said your a KB/M player well i am too... me and my corpmates were shield tankers last build and to help them i created a spider tank soma to rep their tanks due to me being KB/M and them being controller users i was able to outrun their tanks last build and i was using a 180mm plate on it as well Even before using KB/M i felt that my 180mm tank was faster than shield tanks
MercilessFisting BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 3	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:33:00 - [32] - Quote They got a buff. A Titanic, mastadonic, certainly not japanese erection sized buff. Personally, I find tanks to be just the right kind of hard to kill, and devote most of my dust time to trying to kill them with mere AV grenades. It's a lot harder now to lob multiple grenades at a fast moving target than it used to be to simply end a marauder level tank with a remote explosive. If you can't kill a tank, you're not creative enuff to deserve the kill.
Farsund Solheim The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 16	Posted - 2013.06.12 05:05:00 - [33] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Tankin Tarkus wrote: if a armor tank has anything more than a single 60mm plate its slower than shield.... now a properly fit armor tank might outrun a shield tank with nitros but thats our advantage for not needing high slots.... shield tanks benefit from having resistance to most forms of AV and the ones that do extra damage to them are only 10% bonus (besides flux) and shield tanks also dont have to give up their main slots to get the extra pg they need armor tanks do.... neither tank needs a nerf they are both UP compared to how many ppl carry some form of AV but i will agree shield tanks need a significant buff Shield tanks are weaker to: Plasma cannon (sucks), Forge guns, Rail turrets, Blaster turrets, flux grenades, Orbitals (pending confirmation). Armor tanks are weaker to Swarms, Missiles turrets, AV grenades, Proximity mines. Thats 6 to 4 if we're counting. And I don't know if you've driven both since uprising but its not the same as it used to be. Shield tanks are now slower than armor tanks by a considerable margin. Acceleration tips towards shields BARELY. Armor tanks need a minor buf/change to be viable in PC. Shield tanks need a ton of love. From my own experience as a tank driver, and as someone who has a secondary character who is a proto AV character, i will submit before the jury my research on damage vs shields and armor. Hybrid Weapons: Shield Damage 109%/Armor Damage 89% Consists of: Plasma Cannons, Forge Guns, Rail Turrets, Blaster Turrets Explosive Weapons: Shield Damage 55%/Armor Damage 120% Consists of: Swarm Launchers, Missile Turrets, AV grenades, Proximity mines, Remote Explosives Hybrid weapons do a total of 20% more damage to shield than armor. Let's assume an armor tank and a shield tank are firing a 80GJ Particle Accelerator at each other, no damage mods equipped on either side. Base damage is 1272.9. Against armor damage would be 1132.9, and against shield it would be 1387.5. Explosive weapons do a total of 65% more damage to armor than to shields. Let's assume an armor tank and a shield tank are firing a AT-201 Accelerated Missile Launcher at each other, no damage mods equipped on either side. Base damage (per volley) is 1872. Against armor damage would be 2246.4, and against shield it would be 1029.6 Also, Shield tanks have greater acceleration and MUCH faster turning speed. In my experience, i have honestly not seen that much difference in top speed, and that would speak to the armor penalty not working properly, and that should most certainly be fixed
demonkiller 12 BetaMax. CRONOS. 27	Posted - 2013.06.12 05:10:00 - [34] - Quote Farsund Solheim wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Tankin Tarkus wrote: if a armor tank has anything more than a single 60mm plate its slower than shield.... now a properly fit armor tank might outrun a shield tank with nitros but thats our advantage for not needing high slots.... shield tanks benefit from having resistance to most forms of AV and the ones that do extra damage to them are only 10% bonus (besides flux) and shield tanks also dont have to give up their main slots to get the extra pg they need armor tanks do.... neither tank needs a nerf they are both UP compared to how many ppl carry some form of AV but i will agree shield tanks need a significant buff Shield tanks are weaker to: Plasma cannon (sucks), Forge guns, Rail turrets, Blaster turrets, flux grenades, Orbitals (pending confirmation). Armor tanks are weaker to Swarms, Missiles turrets, AV grenades, Proximity mines. Thats 6 to 4 if we're counting. And I don't know if you've driven both since uprising but its not the same as it used to be. Shield tanks are now slower than armor tanks by a considerable margin. Acceleration tips towards shields BARELY. Armor tanks need a minor buf/change to be viable in PC. Shield tanks need a ton of love. From my own experience as a tank driver, and as someone who has a secondary character who is a proto AV character, i will submit before the jury my research on damage vs shields and armor. Hybrid Weapons: Shield Damage 109%/Armor Damage 89% Consists of: Plasma Cannons, Forge Guns, Rail Turrets, Blaster Turrets Explosive Weapons: Shield Damage 55%/Armor Damage 120% Consists of: Swarm Launchers, Missile Turrets, AV grenades, Proximity mines, Remote Explosives Hybrid weapons do a total of 20% more damage to shield than armor. Let's assume an armor tank and a shield tank are firing a 80GJ Particle Accelerator at each other, no damage mods equipped on either side. Base damage is 1272.9. Against armor damage would be 1132.9, and against shield it would be 1387.5. Explosive weapons do a total of 65% more damage to armor than to shields. Let's assume an armor tank and a shield tank are firing a AT-201 Accelerated Missile Launcher at each other, no damage mods equipped on either side. Base damage (per volley) is 1872. Against armor damage would be 2246.4, and against shield it would be 1029.6 Also, Shield tanks have greater acceleration and MUCH faster turning speed. In my experience, i have honestly not seen that much difference in top speed, and that would speak to the armor penalty not working properly, and that should most certainly be fixed Armor now has faster acceleration and top speed, even with the 25% movespeed penalty
Tankin Tarkus Quafe Runners 31	Posted - 2013.06.12 05:13:00 - [35] - Quote Farsund Solheim wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Tankin Tarkus wrote: if a armor tank has anything more than a single 60mm plate its slower than shield.... now a properly fit armor tank might outrun a shield tank with nitros but thats our advantage for not needing high slots.... shield tanks benefit from having resistance to most forms of AV and the ones that do extra damage to them are only 10% bonus (besides flux) and shield tanks also dont have to give up their main slots to get the extra pg they need armor tanks do.... neither tank needs a nerf they are both UP compared to how many ppl carry some form of AV but i will agree shield tanks need a significant buff Shield tanks are weaker to: Plasma cannon (sucks), Forge guns, Rail turrets, Blaster turrets, flux grenades, Orbitals (pending confirmation). Armor tanks are weaker to Swarms, Missiles turrets, AV grenades, Proximity mines. Thats 6 to 4 if we're counting. And I don't know if you've driven both since uprising but its not the same as it used to be. Shield tanks are now slower than armor tanks by a considerable margin. Acceleration tips towards shields BARELY. Armor tanks need a minor buf/change to be viable in PC. Shield tanks need a ton of love. From my own experience as a tank driver, and as someone who has a secondary character who is a proto AV character, i will submit before the jury my research on damage vs shields and armor. Hybrid Weapons: Shield Damage 109%/Armor Damage 89% Consists of: Plasma Cannons, Forge Guns, Rail Turrets, Blaster Turrets Explosive Weapons: Shield Damage 55%/Armor Damage 120% Consists of: Swarm Launchers, Missile Turrets, AV grenades, Proximity mines, Remote Explosives Hybrid weapons do a total of 20% more damage to shield than armor. Let's assume an armor tank and a shield tank are firing a 80GJ Particle Accelerator at each other, no damage mods equipped on either side. Base damage is 1272.9. Against armor damage would be 1132.9, and against shield it would be 1387.5. Explosive weapons do a total of 65% more damage to armor than to shields. Let's assume an armor tank and a shield tank are firing a AT-201 Accelerated Missile Launcher at each other, no damage mods equipped on either side. Base damage (per volley) is 1872. Against armor damage would be 2246.4, and against shield it would be 1029.6 Also, Shield tanks have greater acceleration and MUCH faster turning speed. In my experience, i have honestly not seen that much difference in top speed, and that would speak to the armor penalty not working properly, and that should most certainly be fixed as far as the armor speed penalty goes the average blaster tank can only fit a 120mm plate(without giving up too many low slots to pg expansions) the base speed of a shield tank is around 78 m/s for armor tanks its 93.75 now with 18% penalty from a 120mm plate the speed drops to 76.875 an armor tank that manages to fit a 180mm plate drops down even further to 70.3125
demonkiller 12 BetaMax. CRONOS. 27	Posted - 2013.06.12 05:15:00 - [36] - Quote Tankin Tarkus wrote: Farsund Solheim wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Tankin Tarkus wrote: if a armor tank has anything more than a single 60mm plate its slower than shield.... now a properly fit armor tank might outrun a shield tank with nitros but thats our advantage for not needing high slots.... shield tanks benefit from having resistance to most forms of AV and the ones that do extra damage to them are only 10% bonus (besides flux) and shield tanks also dont have to give up their main slots to get the extra pg they need armor tanks do.... neither tank needs a nerf they are both UP compared to how many ppl carry some form of AV but i will agree shield tanks need a significant buff Shield tanks are weaker to: Plasma cannon (sucks), Forge guns, Rail turrets, Blaster turrets, flux grenades, Orbitals (pending confirmation). Armor tanks are weaker to Swarms, Missiles turrets, AV grenades, Proximity mines. Thats 6 to 4 if we're counting. And I don't know if you've driven both since uprising but its not the same as it used to be. Shield tanks are now slower than armor tanks by a considerable margin. Acceleration tips towards shields BARELY. Armor tanks need a minor buf/change to be viable in PC. Shield tanks need a ton of love. From my own experience as a tank driver, and as someone who has a secondary character who is a proto AV character, i will submit before the jury my research on damage vs shields and armor. Hybrid Weapons: Shield Damage 109%/Armor Damage 89% Consists of: Plasma Cannons, Forge Guns, Rail Turrets, Blaster Turrets Explosive Weapons: Shield Damage 55%/Armor Damage 120% Consists of: Swarm Launchers, Missile Turrets, AV grenades, Proximity mines, Remote Explosives Hybrid weapons do a total of 20% more damage to shield than armor. Let's assume an armor tank and a shield tank are firing a 80GJ Particle Accelerator at each other, no damage mods equipped on either side. Base damage is 1272.9. Against armor damage would be 1132.9, and against shield it would be 1387.5. Explosive weapons do a total of 65% more damage to armor than to shields. Let's assume an armor tank and a shield tank are firing a AT-201 Accelerated Missile Launcher at each other, no damage mods equipped on either side. Base damage (per volley) is 1872. Against armor damage would be 2246.4, and against shield it would be 1029.6 Also, Shield tanks have greater acceleration and MUCH faster turning speed. In my experience, i have honestly not seen that much difference in top speed, and that would speak to the armor penalty not working properly, and that should most certainly be fixed as far as the armor speed penalty goes the average blaster tank can only fit a 120mm plate(without giving up too many low slots to pg expansions) the base speed of a shield tank is around 78 m/s for armor tanks its 93.75 now with 18% penalty from a 120mm plate the speed drops to 76.875 an armor tank that manages to fit a 180mm plate drops down even further to 70.3125 These stats are definitely not right, theres no way a shield tank can move anywhere near my speed, im at least 30% fast with a 180mm plate on
Tankin Tarkus Quafe Runners 31	Posted - 2013.06.12 05:28:00 - [37] - Quote have u tried both tanks? when uprising was released i went and set up a soma and sica the soma had a 120mm plate and the sica obviously had a heavy shield extender both tanks felt very close to eachother and my previous post supports that
Yotta Guns Molon Labe. League of Infamy 22	Posted - 2013.06.12 06:27:00 - [38] - Quote I see a lot of posts, on the numbers of damage each kind of tank will take... Those same people keep forgetting that armor tanks can pack on much more HP, and their repers are much better, and they have an extra venue of repping. (infantry logi) it's not about base stats. It's about the modules. The modules of the armor tanks is what's making them so much better.
Demonkiller 11 Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.06.12 06:33:00 - [39] - Quote Yotta Guns wrote: I see a lot of posts, on the numbers of damage each kind of tank will take... Those same people keep forgetting that armor tanks can pack on much more HP, and their repers are much better, and they have an extra venue of repping. (infantry logi) it's not about base stats. It's about the modules. The modules of the armor tanks is what's making them so much better. actually you can get them to have about equal health, i know shield tankers who have almost 7kshield
Charlotte O'Dell Molon Labe. League of Infamy 450	Posted - 2013.06.12 06:45:00 - [40] - Quote Yotta Guns wrote: Just wondering since shield tanks definitely need a buff and armor reps/resisters need a little bit of a Nerf ALONG WITH the shield buff. armor tanks are clearly better than shield. >:( NO MORE NERFS! Buff armor tanks a little. Buff shield tanks a lot. Boom. then give us back 25% PG bonus and ADV and PRO vehicles.

Charlotte O'Dell Molon Labe. League of Infamy 451	Posted - 2013.06.12 06:46:00 - [41] - Quote Demonkiller 11 wrote: Yotta Guns wrote: I see a lot of posts, on the numbers of damage each kind of tank will take... Those same people keep forgetting that armor tanks can pack on much more HP, and their repers are much better, and they have an extra venue of repping. (infantry logi) it's not about base stats. It's about the modules. The modules of the armor tanks is what's making them so much better. actually you can get them to have about equal health, i know shield tankers who have almost 7kshield They're stupid and I gaurentee any tanker worth their salt could kill them.
Eurydice Itzhak Militaires Sans Jeux 66	Posted - 2013.06.12 06:53:00 - [42] - Quote Farsund Solheim wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Tankin Tarkus wrote: if a armor tank has anything more than a single 60mm plate its slower than shield.... now a properly fit armor tank might outrun a shield tank with nitros but thats our advantage for not needing high slots.... shield tanks benefit from having resistance to most forms of AV and the ones that do extra damage to them are only 10% bonus (besides flux) and shield tanks also dont have to give up their main slots to get the extra pg they need armor tanks do.... neither tank needs a nerf they are both UP compared to how many ppl carry some form of AV but i will agree shield tanks need a significant buff Shield tanks are weaker to: Plasma cannon (sucks), Forge guns, Rail turrets, Blaster turrets, flux grenades, Orbitals (pending confirmation). Armor tanks are weaker to Swarms, Missiles turrets, AV grenades, Proximity mines. Thats 6 to 4 if we're counting. And I don't know if you've driven both since uprising but its not the same as it used to be. Shield tanks are now slower than armor tanks by a considerable margin. Acceleration tips towards shields BARELY. Armor tanks need a minor buf/change to be viable in PC. Shield tanks need a ton of love. From my own experience as a tank driver, and as someone who has a secondary character who is a proto AV character, i will submit before the jury my research on damage vs shields and armor. Hybrid Weapons: Shield Damage 109%/Armor Damage 89% Consists of: Plasma Cannons, Forge Guns, Rail Turrets, Blaster Turrets Explosive Weapons: Shield Damage 55%/Armor Damage 120% Consists of: Swarm Launchers, Missile Turrets, AV grenades, Proximity mines, Remote Explosives Hybrid weapons do a total of 20% more damage to shield than armor. Let's assume an armor tank and a shield tank are firing a 80GJ Particle Accelerator at each other, no damage mods equipped on either side. Base damage is 1272.9. Against armor damage would be 1132.9, and against shield it would be 1387.5. Explosive weapons do a total of 65% more damage to armor than to shields. Let's assume an armor tank and a shield tank are firing a AT-201 Accelerated Missile Launcher at each other, no damage mods equipped on either side. Base damage (per volley) is 1872. Against armor damage would be 2246.4, and against shield it would be 1029.6 Also, Shield tanks have greater acceleration and MUCH faster turning speed. In my experience, i have honestly not seen that much difference in top speed, and that would speak to the armor penalty not working properly, and that should most certainly be fixed Shield tanks DONT have greater acceleration. Same turn speed, I don't know where that comes from. You forgot a key part of your math aswell, the armor tank is repairing 6x the HP that the shield tank is dishing out.
Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 196	Posted - 2013.06.12 06:55:00 - [43] - Quote demonkiller 12 wrote: Eris Ernaga wrote: Harpyja wrote: Eris Ernaga wrote: Yotta Guns wrote: Just wondering since shield tanks definitely need a buff and armor reps/resisters need a little bit of a Nerf ALONG WITH the shield buff. armor tanks are clearly better than shield. >:( I have used both tanks people fail to recognize the pros and cons of each one has passive and more speed the other is slower but can stack on more armor however this comes at the cost of more pg and cpu requirements. There's always some trade off I find shield tanks easier to fit because they cost less cpu and pg and are more well adapt to fit on pg modules without sacrificing shields. Shield are obviously faster but can't really equip nitrous because they would have to sacrifice shield. This is called balance obviously don't run up to a Gallente tank and try and beat it with a blaster catch it at a distance with a railgun. Your mind is clouded. I do not approve of this one. How I've had a full proto sagaris and a full proto madrugar each has its own pros and cons I am an experienced tankers. You cant compare a marauder and a standard tank, on top of that tanks are nothing like they were in chromosone That's because marauders were removed in uprising and I didn't wanna go for an enforcer none the less I had full proto modules.
Eurydice Itzhak Militaires Sans Jeux 66	Posted - 2013.06.12 07:09:00 - [44] - Quote Eris Ernaga wrote: That's because marauders were removed in uprising and I didn't wanna go for an enforcer none the less I had full proto modules. That's interesting. You have proto modules that aren't even in the game? How did you get them? Let me guess your dad works at CCP rite? Rite.
Farsund Solheim The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 16	Posted - 2013.06.12 08:53:00 - [45] - Quote Yotta Guns wrote: I see a lot of posts, on the numbers of damage each kind of tank will take... Those same people keep forgetting that armor tanks can pack on much more HP, and their repers are much better, and they have an extra venue of repping. (infantry logi) it's not about base stats. It's about the modules. The modules of the armor tanks is what's making them so much better. I was talking about natural resistance. If shield has massively better natural resistance against far and away the most abundant forms of AV, then it needs an edge. That edge is the modules it can equip.
Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 196	Posted - 2013.06.12 09:04:00 - [46] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Eris Ernaga wrote: That's because marauders were removed in uprising and I didn't wanna go for an enforcer none the less I had full proto modules. That's interesting. You have proto modules that aren't even in the game? How did you get them? Let me guess your dad works at CCP rite? Rite. When I say proto I mean type meta.
Farsund Solheim The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 16	Posted - 2013.06.12 09:06:00 - [47] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Farsund Solheim wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Tankin Tarkus wrote: if a armor tank has anything more than a single 60mm plate its slower than shield.... now a properly fit armor tank might outrun a shield tank with nitros but thats our advantage for not needing high slots.... shield tanks benefit from having resistance to most forms of AV and the ones that do extra damage to them are only 10% bonus (besides flux) and shield tanks also dont have to give up their main slots to get the extra pg they need armor tanks do.... neither tank needs a nerf they are both UP compared to how many ppl carry some form of AV but i will agree shield tanks need a significant buff Shield tanks are weaker to: Plasma cannon (sucks), Forge guns, Rail turrets, Blaster turrets, flux grenades, Orbitals (pending confirmation). Armor tanks are weaker to Swarms, Missiles turrets, AV grenades, Proximity mines. Thats 6 to 4 if we're counting. And I don't know if you've driven both since uprising but its not the same as it used to be. Shield tanks are now slower than armor tanks by a considerable margin. Acceleration tips towards shields BARELY. Armor tanks need a minor buf/change to be viable in PC. Shield tanks need a ton of love. From my own experience as a tank driver, and as someone who has a secondary character who is a proto AV character, i will submit before the jury my research on damage vs shields and armor. Hybrid Weapons: Shield Damage 109%/Armor Damage 89% Consists of: Plasma Cannons, Forge Guns, Rail Turrets, Blaster Turrets Explosive Weapons: Shield Damage 55%/Armor Damage 120% Consists of: Swarm Launchers, Missile Turrets, AV grenades, Proximity mines, Remote Explosives Hybrid weapons do a total of 20% more damage to shield than armor. Let's assume an armor tank and a shield tank are firing a 80GJ Particle Accelerator at each other, no damage mods equipped on either side. Base damage is 1272.9. Against armor damage would be 1132.9, and against shield it would be 1387.5. Explosive weapons do a total of 65% more damage to armor than to shields. Let's assume an armor tank and a shield tank are firing a AT-201 Accelerated Missile Launcher at each other, no damage mods equipped on either side. Base damage (per volley) is 1872. Against armor damage would be 2246.4, and against shield it would be 1029.6 Also, Shield tanks have greater acceleration and MUCH faster turning speed. In my experience, i have honestly not seen that much difference in top speed, and that would speak to the armor penalty not working properly, and that should most certainly be fixed Shield tanks DONT have greater acceleration. Same turn speed, I don't know where that comes from. You forgot a key part of your math aswell, the armor tank is repairing 6x the HP that the shield tank is dishing out. Well, you can say that i suppose, but as someone who primarily plays as an armor rail sniper, but gets in his shield tank for the down and dirty anti-infantry fights, i can tell you that my shield tank turns on it's axis much faster (1.5x-2x) than the madruger. I also notice it's faster acceleration. Anecdotal evidence, i know, but that is what we are going on mostly in these threads, yes? And 6x as much damage you say? So going up against the Accelerated missile launcher i mentioned above, my tank would be repping at 13k health for every 2.2k shot i take? Apparently that's what your math, which is better than mine, is telling you.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 114	Posted - 2013.06.12 13:21:00 - [48] - Quote I fitted up and called in a Soma recently after being annoyed. When I hopped in it I was surprised how much faster it accelerated. And it had two plates.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 270	Posted - 2013.06.12 13:54:00 - [49] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Eris Ernaga wrote: Yotta Guns wrote: Just wondering since shield tanks definitely need a buff and armor reps/resisters need a little bit of a Nerf ALONG WITH the shield buff. armor tanks are clearly better than shield. >:( I have used both tanks people fail to recognize the pros and cons of each one has passive and more speed the other is slower but can stack on more armor however this comes at the cost of more pg and cpu requirements. There's always some trade off I find shield tanks easier to fit because they cost less cpu and pg and are more well adapt to fit on pg modules without sacrificing shields. Shield are obviously faster but can't really equip nitrous because they would have to sacrifice shield. This is called balance obviously don't run up to a Gallente tank and try and beat it with a blaster catch it at a distance with a railgun. Cough cough I call bs . Look at the base stats regarding speed. You must forget the fact that plates slow down our HAV's.... Peace, Godin Not in comparison to thetop speed of the gunlogi . I have ran and tested both the madruger and gunlogi for speed and it only really effects the madruger when you have more than 1 180 polycrystalline plate added but if you do that you guve up on reps. Try it madrugers with 180 polycrystalline/steel/nanofiber are still faster than a gunlogi.
FatalFlaw V1 ISK Faucet Industries 89	Posted - 2013.06.12 14:06:00 - [50] - Quote I use shield tank at the moment. As far as the amount of health it has, I find that due to the slot layout and PG limits, a shield tank cannot do a whole lot to buff their armor resists. That means that once you start getting shot with a railgun, forge gun, or orbital strike, you are essentially dead as soon as your shield is depleted. Armor tanks maybe have to give up one damage mod in the lows but their high slots are free. They can easily fit an active heat sink as well as shield hardeners. That gives them the additional advantage of having a buffer to give them time to react before their armor even starts taking damage. This benefit cannot be underestimated and it is another reason armor tanking / remote rep gangs are popular in Eve (or at least they were when I still played). Additionally, you have the repper differences as well as extender differences. It takes two mid level shield extenders to get the same buffer as a single module of the best plate. The shield extenders would take two slots and probably use more PG/CPU. The reppers...Yeah I see what CCP did. They made the shield one more instant to compensate for the lack of warning when taking damage, but it still needs to kick out a similar level of HP as armor reppers. I cant comment on speed differences but if the announced armor changes are going to apply to tanks as well as infantry, shield tanks will be gimped beyond comparison.

Charlotte O'Dell Molon Labe. League of Infamy 457	Posted - 2013.06.12 18:00:00 - [51] - Quote Okay, call me crazy here, but what if we buffed tanks AND made parts of the map where a tank could have 10,000 DPS and 50,000 HP, but it wouldnt matter because it couldnt access that part of the battlefield. (inside buildings, underground, skyscrapers, narrow city streets). Let's say there are 5 points on a map- 2 are underground in tight passages where infantry dominate, 2 are above ground on open plains where infantry have no cover, and 1 is somehwere in between. Perhaps in a city with wide roads and accessible buildings, alleyways, 2nd stories where if a tank spots a grunt on the round, the grunt and all 15 of his friends next to him WILL die...unless those 15 were smart and got on top of the tank because of the accessibility of alleyways, indoor areas, etc. So to take that 5th objective would take tanks to lock it down once captured and infantry to protect the tanks, and tanks to make sure infantry dont take back that 5th point. I watched this trailor and it made so much perfect sense. This way, infantry don't get slaughtered unless they go in tank land, tanks don't get soloed by infantry, and tanks can have fun killing eachother in 5km maps all day with 10,000 HP, 2000DPS, etc... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_LlH2c5dyA Maybe it's a far off dream because every map would become so 3-dimensional and it would take a complete rework, but i think everyone would be happy if no side had any advantage in all situations. I mean, I'm sure the infantry would love more CQC inside where there are no lavs or tanks, and tanks love big open manus-peak like maps where they get to be tanks. Just a thought. yes, it's a tank buff, but it's a buff that doesn't effect infantry because if you choose, you will never have to fight a tank- ever! A sniper snipes because he wants to OHK everyone - let him; unless theyre inside where he's useless A tank wants to be an unstoppable killing machine - and he is, but only where the maps allow, placing him against other tanks AV wants to kill tanks- and they will if tanks go into an urban environment where infantry rule Heavies want to be OP and be little tanks - and they will unless the get flanked by someone jumping through a window or rooftop, but anyone in front of them melts...except tanks if they choose to walk into tank land Dropships want to be usefull - they will be the only way to safely transport infantry across tank land Lasers want to be OP again - so let them be...but inside they still suck Mass drives wanna be OP - let them be OP, except for the fact that they have limited range and can't shoot further than the across the street or the next room accuratly. Assault rifles wanna do everything - and they do (except vs tanks), but not as well as anything else, but they still have less weaknesses Shotguns wanna OHK at close range - they will and there will be lots of it in urban combat, but not in the streets where it's open and their power counts for nothing LAVS wanna murder taxi - go for it. infantry in tank land die fast; but run into grunt world and youll find more proxy mines in unavoidable paths than you can count that WILL OHK you AV grenades want to kill tanks - well they can if there is half a squad lobbing it at a tank who was dumb enough to go into the land of the infantry, but try that in tank land and you wont get closer than 300m without melting. Assault dropships want to be assault-oriented - give them huge cannons that do 1000 DPS- after all, SOMEONE's gotta kill the logi dropships and keep the tanks in check if they get too brave. However, get to close to the infantry and a team of forge guns will kill you fast than you can evade because they are A TEAM.
Yotta Guns Molon Labe. League of Infamy 22	Posted - 2013.06.13 04:50:00 - [52] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Farsund Solheim wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Tankin Tarkus wrote: if a armor tank has anything more than a single 60mm plate its slower than shield.... now a properly fit armor tank might outrun a shield tank with nitros but thats our advantage for not needing high slots.... shield tanks benefit from having resistance to most forms of AV and the ones that do extra damage to them are only 10% bonus (besides flux) and shield tanks also dont have to give up their main slots to get the extra pg they need armor tanks do.... neither tank needs a nerf they are both UP compared to how many ppl carry some form of AV but i will agree shield tanks need a significant buff Shield tanks are weaker to: Plasma cannon (sucks), Forge guns, Rail turrets, Blaster turrets, flux grenades, Orbitals (pending confirmation). Armor tanks are weaker to Swarms, Missiles turrets, AV grenades, Proximity mines. Thats 6 to 4 if we're counting. And I don't know if you've driven both since uprising but its not the same as it used to be. Shield tanks are now slower than armor tanks by a considerable margin. Acceleration tips towards shields BARELY. Armor tanks need a minor buf/change to be viable in PC. Shield tanks need a ton of love. From my own experience as a tank driver, and as someone who has a secondary character who is a proto AV character, i will submit before the jury my research on damage vs shields and armor. Hybrid Weapons: Shield Damage 109%/Armor Damage 89% Consists of: Plasma Cannons, Forge Guns, Rail Turrets, Blaster Turrets Explosive Weapons: Shield Damage 55%/Armor Damage 120% Consists of: Swarm Launchers, Missile Turrets, AV grenades, Proximity mines, Remote Explosives Hybrid weapons do a total of 20% more damage to shield than armor. Let's assume an armor tank and a shield tank are firing a 80GJ Particle Accelerator at each other, no damage mods equipped on either side. Base damage is 1272.9. Against armor damage would be 1132.9, and against shield it would be 1387.5. Explosive weapons do a total of 65% more damage to armor than to shields. Let's assume an armor tank and a shield tank are firing a AT-201 Accelerated Missile Launcher at each other, no damage mods equipped on either side. Base damage (per volley) is 1872. Against armor damage would be 2246.4, and against shield it would be 1029.6 Also, Shield tanks have greater acceleration and MUCH faster turning speed. In my experience, i have honestly not seen that much difference in top speed, and that would speak to the armor penalty not working properly, and that should most certainly be fixed Shield tanks DONT have greater acceleration. Same turn speed, I don't know where that comes from. You forgot a key part of your math aswell, the armor tank is repairing 6x the HP that the shield tank is dishing out. What he said.
Yotta Guns Molon Labe. League of Infamy 22	Posted - 2013.06.13 04:53:00 - [53] - Quote Harpyja wrote: I fitted up and called in a Soma recently after being annoyed. When I hopped in it I was surprised how much faster it accelerated. And it had two plates. Thank you for sharing... About tanks = rather fast.
Yotta Guns Molon Labe. League of Infamy 22	Posted - 2013.06.13 04:58:00 - [54] - Quote FatalFlaw V1 wrote: I use shield tank at the moment. As far as the amount of health it has, I find that due to the slot layout and PG limits, a shield tank cannot do a whole lot to buff their armor resists. That means that once you start getting shot with a railgun, forge gun, or orbital strike, you are essentially dead as soon as your shield is depleted. Armor tanks maybe have to give up one damage mod in the lows but their high slots are free. They can easily fit an active heat sink as well as shield hardeners. That gives them the additional advantage of having a buffer to give them time to react before their armor even starts taking damage. This benefit cannot be underestimated and it is another reason armor tanking / remote rep gangs are popular in Eve (or at least they were when I still played). Additionally, you have the repper differences as well as extender differences. It takes two mid level shield extenders to get the same buffer as a single module of the best plate. The shield extenders would take two slots and probably use more PG/CPU. The reppers...Yeah I see what CCP did. They made the shield one more instant to compensate for the lack of warning when taking damage, but it still needs to kick out a similar level of HP as armor reppers. I cant comment on speed differences but if the announced armor changes are going to apply to tanks as well as infantry, shield tanks will be gimped beyond comparison. The shield tank simply can't keep up... The lack of ccp response is terrible on this issue. >:(
Yotta Guns Molon Labe. League of Infamy 22	Posted - 2013.06.13 05:01:00 - [55] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Eris Ernaga wrote: Yotta Guns wrote: Just wondering since shield tanks definitely need a buff and armor reps/resisters need a little bit of a Nerf ALONG WITH the shield buff. armor tanks are clearly better than shield. >:( I have used both tanks people fail to recognize the pros and cons of each one has passive and more speed the other is slower but can stack on more armor however this comes at the cost of more pg and cpu requirements. There's always some trade off I find shield tanks easier to fit because they cost less cpu and pg and are more well adapt to fit on pg modules without sacrificing shields. Shield are obviously faster but can't really equip nitrous because they would have to sacrifice shield. This is called balance obviously don't run up to a Gallente tank and try and beat it with a blaster catch it at a distance with a railgun. Cough cough I call bs . Look at the base stats regarding speed. You must forget the fact that plates slow down our HAV's.... Peace, Godin Not in comparison to thetop speed of the gunlogi . I have ran and tested both the madruger and gunlogi for speed and it only really effects the madruger when you have more than 1 180 polycrystalline plate added but if you do that you guve up on reps. Try it madrugers with 180 polycrystalline/steel/nanofiber are still faster than a gunlogi. I haven't tested this, but I believe he's right.... Madrugers be out-running me all day. >:/
Yotta Guns Molon Labe. League of Infamy 22	Posted - 2013.06.13 05:06:00 - [56] - Quote Farsund Solheim wrote: Yotta Guns wrote: I see a lot of posts, on the numbers of damage each kind of tank will take... Those same people keep forgetting that armor tanks can pack on much more HP, and their repers are much better, and they have an extra venue of repping. (infantry logi) it's not about base stats. It's about the modules. The modules of the armor tanks is what's making them so much better. I was talking about natural resistance. If shield has massively better natural resistance against far and away the most abundant forms of AV, then it needs an edge. That edge is the modules it can equip. Which would be fine if it want over kill there edge is that they can equip shield resisters and armor resist modules as well as being able to get your max HP much higher with the added venue of repairs... They don't need an equipable armor rep that can repair a bazillion times faster than the shield reps as well... Shield tanks don't have anything on armor any more, not even speed. But with this "edge" armor tanks have max HP and repair abilities on the Shield. By a lot too.


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