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Gregor stormwalker
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
33
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Posted - 2013.06.10 19:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
lets at lest see what would happen to war in PC if the option to clone pack attack was reduced I don't know how to get around fake corps but currently PC is like a playground scrap with anyone able to hit anywhere anytime. I don't think this is what you wanted this to be its not what i imagined , the grand strategy element is lost.
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Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
33
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Posted - 2013.06.10 20:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
what the heck are you takin bout???? |
Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
10
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Posted - 2013.06.10 20:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:what the heck are you takin bout????
He's saying that Corp that OWN a district shouldn't be able to buy the 80MIl clone pack, so for attaccking another district, they need to move thery clone count and THINK before doing an attack
Here some Example:
CORP A has a district with 300 clone
CORP A want to attack CORP B district
Now CORP A has two way:
1) Asking an ally corp to attack it (thats what ally ar for)
2) Attack alone corp B districts
For attack corp B district, Corp A has to move 200 clone in X time (suppose some clone biomass cause the space trip)
Corp C, seeing the low Clone count on corp A districts start an Attack.......
and that's is a VERY VERY little example |
Gregor stormwalker
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
33
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Posted - 2013.06.10 20:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
ok sorry should be more detailed
CCPs original plan for planetary conquest had corps only buying clone packs as a way into PC, once you owned a district you cant buy more clone packs, but this was changed due to players pointing out that they would just split into "fake corps" to attack.
ok so lets say CCP done it there way and we did not split corps, every corp would have started with 1 district they would have slowly grow or sat defending that district once a day or been kick out of PC. as corps grew they would have reached a point where they knew they could not hold more, alliance would be fighting of strategic planets, in wars front lines would move back and forth, if you want to attack an enemy district 3 planets over you are going to have to ether have less clones on the attack or leave the source district short on defender.
due to being able to just buy clone pack all the time we have lost this depth,
I could be wrong maybe corps are using clone moments to attack but i just dont see it
Edit: thanks Jastad |
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
35
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Posted - 2013.06.10 20:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
ok i see what u mean now, instead of accumulating clones naturaly over time people are just buying clone packs to attack other districts or reinforce their positions. i see how this can be a problem for smaller and poorer corps, but we are kinda straped for territory as it is, what i wod sugest is to have a weekly limit on clone pack purchases untill more regions are opened up for pc.
u chronos guys already have a large amount of teritory u must be making quite a few extra clones off ur districts correct?? im new to pc mechanics and have only participated in pc to help my alliance fill some spots on too few occasions, i would really like to own my own district but there simply is no room for me to compete in this arena atm and now knowing about this makes me evenmore relctantto drop 80mil just to try |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
826
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Posted - 2013.06.10 20:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
While I completely agree, I don't think this will change anything.
The reason CCP changed the plan to allow corps to deploy multiple clone packs even if they owned districts, is because corps planned to simply transfer ISK to alt-corps and buy districts that way, then transfer the district back the parent corp.
So you can take away the ability for a corp to deploy a clone pack if they have districts. That fine. However they'll simply have one member make a new corp (which will have no districts) and launch the attack, then pull in everyone else from the parent corp to fight the battle.
Clone packs kinda take away from the grand strategy I agree, but I don't see a way to do what you suggest without removing them from the game completely, which really isn't an option right now. |
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
35
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Posted - 2013.06.10 21:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
yeah this issue seems complicated and i would sugest opening more regions for PC would be a start along with having a limit on packs purchased within a certian time frame, the only way to find outis to tweek it a little and how much worse could it get?? |
Gregor stormwalker
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
34
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Posted - 2013.06.10 21:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:ok i see what u mean now, instead of accumulating clones naturaly over time people are just buying clone packs to attack other districts or reinforce their positions. i see how this can be a problem for smaller and poorer corps, but we are kinda straped for territory as it is, what i wod sugest is to have a weekly limit on clone pack purchases untill more regions are opened up for pc.
u chronos guys already have a large amount of teritory u must be making quite a few extra clones off ur districts correct?? im new to pc mechanics and have only participated in pc to help my alliance fill some spots on too few occasions, i would really like to own my own district but there simply is no room for me to compete in this arena atm and now knowing about this makes me evenmore relctantto drop 80mil just to try
sorry for the bad OP
the daily/weekly limit might be a good start maybe 1 a day with upto 3 days limits rolling over
for big alliances ISK is not a problem (currently) but that in its self is the problem a new corp coming in anywhere on the map is open to attack from anywhere if you only had to worry about you neighbors you could make better chooses, you could wait and watch a war on a planet seeing districts flib back and forth and then attack take one form a weakened opponent. from there you could pick side or sit and wait hoping the two enemies would rather fight each other then make it a 3 way fight
Pokey Dravon wrote:While I completely agree, I don't think this will change anything.
The reason CCP changed the plan to allow corps to deploy multiple clone packs even if they owned districts, is because corps planned to simply transfer ISK to alt-corps and buy districts that way, then transfer the district back the parent corp.
So you can take away the ability for a corp to deploy a clone pack if they have districts. That fine. However they'll simply have one member make a new corp (which will have no districts) and launch the attack, then pull in everyone else from the parent corp to fight the battle.
Clone packs kinda take away from the grand strategy I agree, but I don't see a way to do what you suggest without removing them from the game completely, which really isn't an option right now.
what about a mouth long cool down where your corp must have minimum 16 member before they join PC combine this with a different weekly cap of 7 ie one a day and it would be a lot less attractive to make alt-corps
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Sponglyboy Squaredoo
Not Guilty
EoN.
129
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Posted - 2013.06.10 21:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
I don't think Starter packs should be removed.
After all, you're paying 5.3x more ISK.
Starter packs are essential to getting started in a new system. Not to mention this would leave Corps that don't have a foothold in PC 0% chance of getting involved. |
Gregor stormwalker
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
34
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Posted - 2013.06.10 21:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sponglyboy Squaredoo wrote:I don't think Starter packs should be removed.
After all, you're paying 5.3x more ISK.
Starter packs are essential to getting started in a new system. Not to mention this would leave Corps that don't have a foothold in PC 0% chance of getting involved.
i don't think it would as there would be alot more districts without max clones so one good battle would get you in instead of 2-3 but its hard to say ether way with out trying both over a reasonable time frame.
i will admit that this may sort its self as it currently is but some kinda change maybe needed
(notes: feel i should say others have posted these idea before over the forum and i would encourage them to post here because the discussion deserves its own thread) |
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
826
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Posted - 2013.06.10 21:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gregor stormwalker wrote:
what about a mouth long cool down where your corp must have minimum 16 member before they join PC combine this with a different weekly cap of 7 ie one a day and it would be a lot less attractive to make alt-corps
That is certainly a good direction to start exploring. |
Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 23:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sponglyboy Squaredoo wrote:I don't think Starter packs should be removed.
After all, you're paying 5.3x more ISK.
Starter packs are essential to getting started in a new system. Not to mention this would leave Corps that don't have a foothold in PC 0% chance of getting involved.
I think the better idea is to take the "clonePack" away from corp with district, so I (corp with district) must move my clone from my main district and thats solve ALL the "problems" people are calling on pc:
No more 4/5 Attack a day in EVERY District (unless you have MANY MANY distr, but thats another story )
No more "2 Work"
No more "ehy let's defect this match, we still have 300+80 clone"
If we do like the OP and many of us think we can see the REAL side of PC
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Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
11
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Posted - 2013.06.10 23:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
A little post, or the topic is gonna die before CCP staff ear us |
Jastad
Eliters
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
11
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Posted - 2013.06.11 10:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Uppete
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Django Quik
R.I.f.t
653
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Posted - 2013.06.11 11:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yeah, I posted this exact suggestion a few weeks ago and brought it back up last week too.
I still dispute that the alt corp issue would have been a significant problem - the difficulty of managing enough multiple corps simultaneously and the impossibility of just 'transferring' districts to the main corp, would mean that only the biggest and most organised corps could pull it off on any sort of useful scale. Very few corps (if any) would have been able to grab 10 - 15 districts on day 1 (which is what happened in this current implementation).
I'd be very interested to see some stats on how many attacks have actually been made without using clone packs over the duration of PC. I'd reckon it's above 80%. |
Gregor stormwalker
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
37
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Posted - 2013.06.11 17:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Yeah, I posted this exact suggestion a few weeks ago and brought it back up last week too.
I still dispute that the alt corp issue would have been a significant problem - the difficulty of managing enough multiple corps simultaneously and the impossibility of just 'transferring' districts to the main corp, would mean that only the biggest and most organised corps could pull it off on any sort of useful scale. Very few corps (if any) would have been able to grab 10 - 15 districts on day 1 (which is what happened in this current implementation).
I'd be very interested to see some stats on how many attacks have actually been made without using clone packs over the duration of PC. I'd reckon it's above 80%.
sorry must have missed it or i would have supported it any thing interesting come out of it? |
Kain Spero
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1603
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 18:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
When it comes down to it I have mixed feelings about clone packs being removed from corps with districts. You do end up with the alt corp problem.
Right now you loose money every time you use a clone pack, so using gen pack attacks is unsustainable in the long run. It takes 2 to 3 clone packs to take a district if you win every fight. To get a return on that investment you have to generate surplus clones for 16 to 30 days to recoup the investment. |
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
36
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Posted - 2013.06.11 18:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
OPEN ANOTHER REGION |
Gregor stormwalker
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
38
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Posted - 2013.06.11 19:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:When it comes down to it I have mixed feelings about clone packs being removed from corps with districts. You do end up with the alt corp problem.
Right now you loose money every time you use a clone pack, so using gen pack attacks is unsustainable in the long run. It takes 2 to 3 clone packs to take a district if you win every fight. To get a return on that investment you have to generate surplus clones for 16 to 30 days to recoup the investment.
thanks for that it maybe that things sort them self out when corps dry up on funds but.
16-30 days is a long time that means a new corp coming in may have to win 33 battles (including their attacks) in a row without loosing to start to be profitable I really can't see many wanting to get into that.
alt corps would be the main problem and its one that is very hard to counter in a F2P game. having a requirement of 16 unique players in the corp for a month and limiting the number of attacks that can be launched a day might help |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
656
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 19:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:When it comes down to it I have mixed feelings about clone packs being removed from corps with districts. You do end up with the alt corp problem.
Right now you loose money every time you use a clone pack, so using gen pack attacks is unsustainable in the long run. It takes 2 to 3 clone packs to take a district if you win every fight. To get a return on that investment you have to generate surplus clones for 16 to 30 days to recoup the investment.
You're 2nd point would be applicable if CCP hadn't flooded the game with isk when they liquidated everyone's assets. That meant that corps could spam as many clone packs as they wanted without worrying for cost. Just ask EON how much they spent on clone packs - I bet it's a hell of a lot and they're not even remotely worried about it.
As for the alt corps thing - I still dispute this would have been a bigger problem than just giving them free reign like they got. Instead of a system where they had to put a lot of effort in to get lots of districts straight away, we got a system where they could put in next to no effort and get lots of districts.
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