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Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 172	Posted - 2013.06.10 22:37:00 - [1] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: The first person to tell someone else that they are whining...releases a massive thread and qq's about AV being powerful lol Thread is too long to read every single line but what I gathered is that this is another AV is too powerful and needs to be nerfed thread. From what I've skimmed through....I got that vehicles need to either stay where they are or get buffed. Even the LAVs ared fine according to this thread. I dont use SLs but I use proto AV nades...and for a well fitted Madrugar or Gunnlogi, it takes about 6 Lai Dais to destroy it. Who knows what it will take to destroy a proto tank. With damage mods and passive dmg bonuses to SLs and Forges...they may do incredible damage and it is much easier to solo a tank with those weapons. But you dont get those bonuses with AV nades...they truly are a deterrent unless a tank decides to stand right in front of infantry. Because you can not solo a well-fitted tank without reloading. And if you need a team...then it's working as intended. This coming from a guy saying that vehicles are nothing more than a nuisance, LOL. It SHOULD take coordinated AV to destroy any hypothetical PRO tank. You just don't want one because your nanohive would run out before it gets destroyed. AV grenades aren't a "deterrent" when 9 can be thrown in about 5 seconds from 3 or 4 people. That's an armor tank with max armor, sans a repper, destroyed in seconds. It would be a deterrent when the HP of a tank goes down at a consistent rate, say 400-500 a hit, rather than one packed AV doing > 1200. Why are you on this thread anyway? I'm surprised you aren't leading a charge to get the TARs buffed back where they were, or making a thread saying that ARs need to be legitimate AV.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 172	Posted - 2013.06.10 22:39:00 - [2] - Quote Gold Zapa wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: AV & vehicle payouts - If you specialize into these roles expect no isk even if you kill 4 enforcers in a game totalling 6mil ISK, you will be lucky to get 300k. You cannot make a profit unless you don't die for several games unless you want to run militia suits because all your SP is into vehicles. In general we need bigger payouts to make us feel more useful and also to reward those who go into the roles to begin with, I suggest that anyone who kills anything gets 50% more ISK and anyone who assists gets 25% Example - AV/vehicle guy kills a 1mil ISK HAV, he gets 500k as a reward for killing that HAV, the guy who got an assist for also helping killing that HAV gets 250k This is another issue that we can agree and disagree at the same time however, realize that CCP wants everyone on a balanced pay. You can't have someone getting say...18 kills and have only 200k isk compared to someone destroying 2 enforcers, made 3 kills(including the HAVs) and have 750k isk in their pockets that basicly just putting focus on AV tactics and not focusing on Infantry. Another thing to point out people who losses their enforcers or any expensive vehicle, and get small payout, basicly it's on them. They decide to bring out their vehicles on their cold hard isk. They should know what to expect from the other team. someone is going to fight back and when they do, that person should have a back up plan or to make themselves more safe go in a squad, communicate with them and let them know to back you up. Going in blind with an HAV Enforcer doesn't make you hard to kill unless you know whats going on in the field. That comment tells me you don't understand the change in dynamics when a tank rolls onto the field. Refrain from commenting until you've been on both sides.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 172	Posted - 2013.06.10 22:40:00 - [3] - Quote calisk galern wrote: Gold Zapa wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: AV & vehicle payouts - If you specialize into these roles expect no isk even if you kill 4 enforcers in a game totalling 6mil ISK, you will be lucky to get 300k. You cannot make a profit unless you don't die for several games unless you want to run militia suits because all your SP is into vehicles. In general we need bigger payouts to make us feel more useful and also to reward those who go into the roles to begin with, I suggest that anyone who kills anything gets 50% more ISK and anyone who assists gets 25% Example - AV/vehicle guy kills a 1mil ISK HAV, he gets 500k as a reward for killing that HAV, the guy who got an assist for also helping killing that HAV gets 250k This is another issue that we can agree and disagree at the same time however, realize that CCP wants everyone on a balanced pay. You can't have someone getting say...18 kills and have only 200k isk compared to someone destroying 2 enforcers, made 3 kills(including the HAVs) and have 750k isk in their pockets that basicly just putting focus on AV tactics and not focusing on Infantry. Another thing to point out people who losses their enforcers or any expensive vehicle, and get small payout, basicly it's on them. They decide to bring out their vehicles on their cold hard isk. They should know what to expect from the other team. someone is going to fight back and when they do, that person should have a back up plan or to make themselves more safe go in a squad, communicate with them and let them know to back you up. Going in blind with an HAV Enforcer doesn't make you hard to kill unless you know whats going on in the field. you know if I got a large sum of isk for blowing up that tank, it might actually be worth the 5 deaths I took getting ganked by infantry just trying to get in range of that one tank trolling my blue dots. So you consider a tank to be trolling? Maybe you're on the wrong game.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 172	Posted - 2013.06.10 22:43:00 - [4] - Quote Crimson Judgment wrote: Continuing with the dropsuit VS vehicle thing, i would like to point out that when dropsuits go from the basic frames to the logistics assault scout or sentinel, these suits are all cheaper then the basic frames of the same level, where vehicles are AGAIN the exact opposite and are much more expensive when you enter assault logistics scout and enforcer, mainly the enforcer which costs 1.2m just for the frame and that's the BASIC frame so im terrified of how much the advanced/proto will cost hopefully they reduce the price of the current enforcer and make the current price the cost of the advanced/proto enforcer The survivability against assault bunnies will be worth the investment. Any investment would be worth it to laugh at AV grenades.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 172	Posted - 2013.06.10 22:47:00 - [5] - Quote Jammer Jalapeno wrote: AV is alright the way it is. The biggest problem is you have people using their Proto AV gear on advanced level tanks. Once they release the Proto tanks, it should feel more balanced. We don't have ADV tanks.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 172	Posted - 2013.06.10 22:58:00 - [6] - Quote PsychoLogiKal PsyDrei wrote: Likes and bump for summing up for the most part what is wrong with vehicle / av balance in uprising. One thing that I'd like to see that would probably be the best equalizer for death taxis is that the amount of armor that a merc has left is transferred as incoming damage to the lav. No My Madrugar, which probably weighs more than an M1A1 Abrams, stops dead when I run someone over if I'm not on an incline. Why should a vehicle potentially 80 or more tons stop moving at all, or take damage when hitting something that's probably less than a ton? For LAVs, well... you have physics to put up with.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 172	Posted - 2013.06.10 23:13:00 - [7] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: PsychoLogiKal PsyDrei wrote: Likes and bump for summing up for the most part what is wrong with vehicle / av balance in uprising. One thing that I'd like to see that would probably be the best equalizer for death taxis is that the amount of armor that a merc has left is transferred as incoming damage to the lav. No My Madrugar, which probably weighs more than an M1A1 Abrams, stops dead when I run someone over if I'm not on an incline. Why should a vehicle potentially 80 or more tons stop moving at all, or take damage when hitting something that's probably less than a ton? For LAVs, well... you have physics to put up with. IMO... If I can flip an overturned LAV so easily, then I should be able to shoulder block it in my heavy suit. LOL Tell that to CCP.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 176	Posted - 2013.06.11 08:49:00 - [8] - Quote If you're trying to manage heat with the compressed particle cannon, the only way to do it is by using the top active coolant, and not holding down R1. You can get maybe 8 shots off. I'd still rather have a forge gun. At least swarms can't target heavies... yet.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 180	Posted - 2013.06.11 16:42:00 - [9] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Jammer Jalapeno wrote: AV is alright the way it is. The biggest problem is you have people using their Proto AV gear on advanced level tanks. Once they release the Proto tanks, it should feel more balanced. it won't. Like I said- (considering the fits are decent and not just halfassed) Militia AV is the same damn thing as standard AV Standard AV is an even match for Militia vehicles Advanced AV is an even match for Standard Vehicles Prototype AV beats everything, because the best vehicles are Standard Tech II Once advanced vehicles come out, the system will be fine. Prototype vehicles, and AV might need a buff. ADV AV a match for STD tanks? LOL!
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 182	Posted - 2013.06.11 17:05:00 - [10] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: I can't wait to see the playercount after the next vehicle buff/AV nerf. What I'm trying to get at is that probably 98% of all time spent in game across all players is in public matches. There's trouble ahead when the public matches get worse to make PC worthwhile. Personally I think much could be improved by reducing the speed of HAVs and improving their HP accordingly. That way HAVs will be less annoyed by getting killed in 5 seconds by AV nades and AV users will be less annoyed by HAVs leisurely driving away from any harm while reaping kills on-the-go. I know that Amarr HAVs are still in the pipeline, but I think both current HAVs rely too much on their speed. What would you be happy with? A scout's sprint speed as the max speed? Go back to Call of Duty if you want vehicles to be useless.

Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 182	Posted - 2013.06.11 17:36:00 - [11] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Webifiers. The ability to tackle tanks is the first step to balance. Webifire missiles or forge varients that do little or no damage but stop the vehicle for 1-3 seconds, webifier nades which stop them for 5-10 seconds. Then you can have your HP buff/AV nerf. Do you want melee to hurt tanks?
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 183	Posted - 2013.06.11 17:55:00 - [12] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: Webifiers. The ability to tackle tanks is the first step to balance. Webifire missiles or forge varients that do little or no damage but stop the vehicle for 1-3 seconds, webifier nades which stop them for 5-10 seconds. Then you can have your HP buff/AV nerf. We can't be adding that until we have ADV and PRO tanks with 8k and 11k HP, respectively. 8k and 11k? LOL Seriously just no sir, ehp is fine, too fine in the case of LLAV, what you will get is some extra slots and cpu/pgrid. Which means more shield/armor. Sorry you can't figure that out. But of course you don't want ADV and PRO tanks. Those would be too difficult to solo.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 184	Posted - 2013.06.11 23:03:00 - [13] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: The problem is with the idea that we have a driver, main gunner and 2 sub gunners if needed (optional gunners tbh not needed to run the tank in anyway) is that who skills up what? Does the driver still have to skill up everything? he needs the hull and the mods but frankly he doesnt need the guns so that would mean the gunner needs the turrets but if the driver doesnt have them then how can he put on the gun Frankly its far too much work to go down this road because of how complicated it would be, the driver still it would seem needs everything just to be able to fit it in the fitting screen because you cannot deploy anything in the field if you have something on it where the pre req have not been met The only simplistic way of doing this is by seperating the main gun from the driver but still having the driver needing the skills for everything just so he can fit it, so he can deploy it in the field and then whoever jumps into the main gun, problem is johnny randoms jumps in and i cant kick his ass out or lock the vehicle to begin with. Maybe as a secondary measure the guy who will be in controll of the main gun needs to have turret skills also and up to the turret that the driver has so if driver has proto turrets the gunner will need to be skilled into proto turrets. I would also ask for a buff to the 4man HAV if its going to take more ppl to control it or it could be made a seperate HAV to the ones we have, call it Heavy HAV with improved defences and the pilot can utilise his pilot suit with the vehicle to make it defensively/offensively better Yep, there aren't any easy solutions, but I still firmly believe that you need to balance around number of players first, and then ISK/SP second. The critical hard limit in Dust battles is number of players. If you allow one player in a HAV to be significantly more effective than one player in any other role then there is only one place things can end up: 16 HAVs per side (has anyone ever brought 16 HAVs to a fight before, btw?) Teams A and B are fighting, with 16 players each. Team A pulls out a HAV. To maintain parity, team B can switch one guy to a HAV, or switch three guys to AV. I don't think any of the "tank crew" objections you raise are blockers, by the way, and I'm happy to go into detail if asked. Vehicles are limited to 7 per side right now. No, there can't be 16 v 16 tank battles, no matter how bad I'd like to see that myself. The other team should have to react to a tank being dropped. Some assault guy can't say "I got this," call in a Baloch/Onikuma, roll over to the tank, and spam AV grenades at it to blow it up. That's an absolutely terrible dynamic for vehicle/anti-vehicle warfare. Wiyrkomi swarms are absolutely devastating, per individual volley. More so against armor, as explosive weapons have a huge bonus against armor. I'm lucky to keep half my armor after getting hit by just one volley from one of those. I'd rather be attacked by a duo of Ishukone forge guns, because I at least know those guys know what they're doing, and don't have to rely on a fire-and-forget crutch to blow me up. One proto assault scrub should not be able to solo a tank, and those that say "I have xx amount of SP invested towards anti vehicle," odds are they're mentioning how much they have towards lolstomping noobs, plus the amount they put in to get the CBR7 or Wiyrkomi swarms. That's not dedicated AV, that's barely branching out. Dedicated AV is someone whose points are in heavy suits and forge guns. That I can respect. Everybody that's on here crying that 2 proto AV grenades should destroy any tank, I cannot respect.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 186	Posted - 2013.06.12 16:56:00 - [14] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Which means more shield/armor. Sorry you can't figure that out. But of course you don't want ADV and PRO tanks. Those would be too difficult to solo. Am fine with pilots wanting to use cpu/pgrid for more ehp if they can fit the mods, not fine at all buffing ehp arbitrally. HAV is, lets face it, a crutch after all no point in throwing random boosts on them. What the hell crutch are you talking about? Have you ever tried tanking? Do you not realize just how effective swarms and AV grenades are (explosives)? They're the most popular AV in the game right now, wanna know why? Because it doesn't require any intelligence to use them, and they're basically fire and forget. They're the stupid man's anti-vehicle weapons. That's the first reason they're so popular. Wanna know the second reason they're so popular? Because the Madrugar gives you the best all-around options for tanking. Know what the Madrugar is? It's an armor tank. We can sacrifice defenses to make a glass cannon fit, or sacrifice offense for more defensive capabilities. It's only reasonable and logical that ADV and PRO tanks have more HP than STD tanks. After all, that's how dropsuits work, is it not? How would you feel if all CCP did for dropsuits was keep them at basically the same level of health across STD, ADV and PRO levels, and told you that if you want more health, the only way you could get more is by modules?
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 186	Posted - 2013.06.12 16:57:00 - [15] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: English the post was insightful as usual. Lot of good points. I started tanking again. Well the speed for armor isn't so bad, the buff to HP isn't that bad. The old enemies still remain, 180 Swarms, invisible swarms, Handheld FG > Tank Mounted Rails. The problem is the CPU and PG tbh. The skill tree has a lot of areas that only allow us to get to the next level without any bonuses. They could use those slots to introduce slight (not a lot) increase to CPU/PG bonus. As you've mentioned, SOLO tanking and SOLO Av is not balancing. I see a lot of tankers crying, everyday all day. But i see some of them trying to kill infantry in front of a supply depot. Thats just stupid in my books. Don't see that many blaster tanks. Its almost close to none. All the tankers are on top of the hills with Railguns blowing up installations. What happened to the blaster on blaster tanking? Oh wait, can't see infantry properly, can't see swarms, getting shot by multiple wanna be railgun tankers. Note: Spkr you are not a tanker. so don't speak on the elders' circle The hell with the rules. **** you
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 186	Posted - 2013.06.12 17:01:00 - [16] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: One proto assault scrub should not be able to solo a tank, Why not? Why should one player with one set of kit not be able to solo one player with a different set of kit? Don't come back with "its a tank" because that isn't a valid game-play argument. Also, don't say "because of ISK or SP", because I don't believe those are significant limiting factors for a large portion of the player base any more. Is there a valid argument gameplay argument for "if I spec into this I will be significantly better than if I spec into anything else"? Also, remember I'm not saying one infantry player should be able to solo a HAV whenever they want. I'm saying a 3 man AV team should be able to kill a 3 man tank crew 50% of the time. You're a ****. Please, go back to Call of Duty. You don't understand the dynamics a tank brings to the field. [quote=R F Gyro]Also, remember I'm not saying one infantry player should be able to solo a HAV whenever they want.[/quote\] THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY!!!!!** How the hell could you not see that? It's basically the same argument as 3 in a tank vs 3 with AV. Why should one guy with AV grenades be able to solo a tank? Can you answer that with any intelligence at all?
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 186	Posted - 2013.06.12 17:06:00 - [17] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: NAV HIV wrote: English the post was insightful as usual. Lot of good points. I started tanking again. Well the speed for armor isn't so bad, the buff to HP isn't that bad. The old enemies still remain, 180 Swarms, invisible swarms, Handheld FG > Tank Mounted Rails. The problem is the CPU and PG tbh. The skill tree has a lot of areas that only allow us to get to the next level without any bonuses. They could use those slots to introduce slight (not a lot) increase to CPU/PG bonus. As you've mentioned, SOLO tanking and SOLO Av is not balancing. I see a lot of tankers crying, everyday all day. But i see some of them trying to kill infantry in front of a supply depot. Thats just stupid in my books. Don't see that many blaster tanks. Its almost close to none. All the tankers are on top of the hills with Railguns blowing up installations. What happened to the blaster on blaster tanking? Oh wait, can't see infantry properly, can't see swarms, getting shot by multiple wanna be railgun tankers. Note: Spkr you are not a tanker. so don't speak on the elders' circle The hell with the rules. **** you LOL if i'm not mistaken you are one of those LAV scrubs arent you You mean to tell me you're not spec'd into the Limbus/Charybdis at all? No Saga or Methana?
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 186	Posted - 2013.06.12 17:11:00 - [18] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Obodiah Garro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Which means more shield/armor. Sorry you can't figure that out. But of course you don't want ADV and PRO tanks. Those would be too difficult to solo. Am fine with pilots wanting to use cpu/pgrid for more ehp if they can fit the mods, not fine at all buffing ehp arbitrally. HAV is, lets face it, a crutch after all no point in throwing random boosts on them. What the hell crutch are you talking about? Have you ever tried tanking? Do you not realize just how effective swarms and AV grenades are (explosives)? They're the most popular AV in the game right now, wanna know why? Because it doesn't require any intelligence to use them, and they're basically fire and forget. They're the stupid man's anti-vehicle weapons. That's the first reason they're so popular. Wanna know the second reason they're so popular? Because the Madrugar gives you the best all-around options for tanking. Know what the Madrugar is? It's an armor tank. We can sacrifice defenses to make a glass cannon fit, or sacrifice offense for more defensive capabilities. It's only reasonable and logical that ADV and PRO tanks have more HP than STD tanks. After all, that's how dropsuits work, is it not? How would you feel if all CCP did for dropsuits was keep them at basically the same level of health across STD, ADV and PRO levels, and told you that if you want more health, the only way you could get more is by modules? Oh scrubba dub , if i'm not mistaken most AR suits have the same base HP. The difference is in the number of slots and, CPU and PG I don't run assault at all. The only numbers I want to be familiar with at all are the numbers for AV weapons. If you had a brain, maybe you'd realize that.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 186	Posted - 2013.06.12 17:18:00 - [19] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: NAV HIV wrote: English the post was insightful as usual. Lot of good points. I started tanking again. Well the speed for armor isn't so bad, the buff to HP isn't that bad. The old enemies still remain, 180 Swarms, invisible swarms, Handheld FG > Tank Mounted Rails. The problem is the CPU and PG tbh. The skill tree has a lot of areas that only allow us to get to the next level without any bonuses. They could use those slots to introduce slight (not a lot) increase to CPU/PG bonus. As you've mentioned, SOLO tanking and SOLO Av is not balancing. I see a lot of tankers crying, everyday all day. But i see some of them trying to kill infantry in front of a supply depot. Thats just stupid in my books. Don't see that many blaster tanks. Its almost close to none. All the tankers are on top of the hills with Railguns blowing up installations. What happened to the blaster on blaster tanking? Oh wait, can't see infantry properly, can't see swarms, getting shot by multiple wanna be railgun tankers. Note: Spkr you are not a tanker. so don't speak on the elders' circle The hell with the rules. **** you LOL if i'm not mistaken you are one of those LAV scrubs arent you You mean to tell me you're not spec'd into the Limbus/Charybdis at all? No Saga or Methana? Nope not even one. Unless the Gallente LAV skill to level 3 counts as anything. Didn't buy any of those. Don't need a LAV to kill someone LOL But as i've mentioned before. You are polluting a wonderful thread. So try and learn something from English about tanking if you can. or else shut up and listen When I started following him into matches on MAG instead of deploying with my clan (basically a sabotage clan), that's when I really figured out vehicles and how effective they can be. The same happened on here. I was skilling up for heavy but also wanted to branch into tanking. Finally was able to skill up for Madrugar, and English showed me the way. I didn't learn it by myself, and I don't consider myself stupid.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 191	Posted - 2013.06.19 15:43:00 - [20] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: You obviously don't have experience as a heavy FG wielder in an infantry encounter. The majority of the time, the FG wielder dies in a close encounter with infantry. If I ever get to where I can OHK proto fit rail tank, without having to worry about getting OHKed by said tank, then I'll concede that you have a valid point. Till then, while I'm highly vulnerable to every battlefield threat, and my chosen target takes three or more shots to take down, you've got nothing to stand on. Tell me how you feel when a main weapon is able to lock on to your dropsuit. I'm still winning out some 1 v 1 when I have a militia forge gun. Dunno what you're doing wrong.

Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 191	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:02:00 - [21] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: Heavy FG is easy, either run around in a LAV and hop out at a place where you have a clear LOS and the suprise and then pop back in move again or get up high OHK a tank is unlickly unless its already too a fair amount of damage since FG/SL can easy do 3k damage and a Proto rail should always OHK infantry the problem is hitting you, as for the proto FG they take 3 shots or less to kill any tank atm Also as a heavy you have a sidearm slot for a reason to defend yourself, its not hard playing as a heavy just moving around is Plus as a heavy you can add damage mods and tank, a HAV cannot do that ever due to restrictions and compromises and the whole 'How you fit a tank is your choice, just because you don't fit two damage mods, doesn't mean you can't' is pure BS and just shows you know nothing about vehicles, yes we can fit 2 damage mods on but we have to give up tank/resistances so we are weaker to everything else but a heavy suit doesnt have to do ** because damage mods are mid slots and the tank is low where it doesnt effect anything So what you're saying is that because a heavy isn't useless against an HAV, where even the basic large rail turret can OHK, it's over powered. I get it. And that you believe that a sidearm is effective defense against all forms of infantry is evident. And forbid that the heavy do something so OP as to utilize intelligent tactics. And the fact that I watch rail tanks effectively snipe infantry from behind their red line all day with high accuracy then read your complaint shows me that you are a poor tanker, poor gunner, or both. You have given me many smiles and laughs at your apparent belief that the heavy with a FG is a more effective battlefield asset than a well piloted rail tank. I never said it was OP you idiot but it is clearly not as bad as you are making out The FG does more base damage than a proto vehicle mounted railgun which has a massive tank looking shape to shoot at while the HAV pilot can only guess at where the little pixelatedAV guy is which needs a direct hit to kill him since splash got nerfed Sidearm slot *** use it at least AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA where did i say that the FG is a more effective battlefield weapon than a tank? I swear you just see what you want and pull handfulls of ** out of your arse and smear it on the screen Your immaturity and inability to understand your own implications only moves me to more fervent laughter. The fact that you can't comprehend a statistical comparison shows that you have difficulty with comprehension. Either that or you're in the same genetic pool as the "chosen" people with the fallacious belief that science is false, and everything was created six thousand years ago, even though they have mountains of evidence to the contrary put before them. The discussion was apparently based on the false assumption that a forge gun out damages a large rail turret, not the tactics and fittings of the mercs using them. On a per shot basis, you're right. But on a damage output over time, you're completely wrong. You don't understand that a round guy with a glowing blue ball is a more difficult target to hit than a damn tank. I don't think he's the one that's stupid. Your use of grammar reminds me of pseudo-intellectual high school seniors trying to sound smart and informed. It's not working.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 191	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:05:00 - [22] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: How you fit a tank is your choice, just because you don't fit two damage mods, doesn't mean you can't. Besides, the top proto sentinel suits only have one high so their bonuse would be halved still giving the rail tank the DPS advantage. You obviously don't have experience as a heavy FG wielder in an infantry encounter. The majority of the time, the FG wielder dies in a close encounter with infantry. If I ever get to where I can OHK proto fit rail tank, without having to worry about getting OHKed by said tank, then I'll concede that you have a valid point. Till then, while I'm highly vulnerable to every battlefield threat, and my chosen target takes three or more shots to take down, you've got nothing to stand on. >How you fit a tank is your choice. LOLOLOLOLOLOL. Has never used a tank, or at least not since uprising. You literally get NO say in anything. I ALWAYS drive my LLAV with a militia heavy suit and a militia forge gun. (Dropships are too easy to pass this up). I never have issue taking down my enemy. I almost always play with my best friend too. If we see a tank and im cruising in my LAV, I pick him up, drive up right behind said tank, and pop him easily. Me with militia AV and my friend with ADV. Me and my buddy have a good amount of experience popping tanks (me in militia gear, lololololol. I shouldn't be killing tanks). So you're implying that there's some fitting nutzi standing over every tanker's shoulder every time they go to fitting to make sure it's fit just so with no variation allowed. Or do you mean to imply that the tanks come pre-fit and no alterations are allowed? It looked to me that it was always the tankers choice how to fit their tanks good or bad. You didn't get the previous point. We're always trying to decide whether we want more damage output, or more defenses. You can get a heavy with an Ishukone forge, one damage mod, then two plates and two reppers. That's a better, sneakier alternative to a tank.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 191	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:09:00 - [23] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: , Higher accuracy, and able to OHK anyone in their sights makes it underpowered. You're missing that point, too. We one hit kill things with less than 1000 HP, because our rail turrets cause damage at over 1000 HP per shot. I don't see what your problem is with that.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 191	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:11:00 - [24] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: People shouldn't be SOLOing tanks. People keep saying this, without any justification. While a tank can be operated solo, I see no valid game balance reason why infantry shouldn't be able to kill them solo. As I see it, you have three options here:- Provide a game balance justification for your statement that people should not be soloing tanks Accept that game balance requires 1 player in a tank to be about equal to 1 player not in a tank, and soloing is OK Require multiple people to operate a tank, and the same number of people to counter it Option 3 means infantry can't solo a tank (which is what you want) but we still have a balanced game. It is clearly the best option as far as I'm concerned. You're the reason this is AR 514. Go home. You people think that tanks should be taken solo with ease. This is why tanks suck in PC. This is why everything but ARs suck in PC. So you want it to be Tank 514? I haven't seen any suggestions for an alternate balance, only calls for changes to make all AV useless. How pathetically easy it is to use swarms and AV grenades makes tanks useless. We're calling for balance between those. I don't care if they buff the forge guns at all, they're fine because they require aim. You don't need to aim AV grenades or swarm launchers. Infantry gets two weapons that home in on vehicles, while vehicle users get remote modules that are difficult to use. Maybe we should get mass driver turrets instead, or something that launches fused locus grenades...
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 191	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:16:00 - [25] - Quote Commander Tuna wrote: Am I missing something here? The only times I see an av nade take out a tank is on the milltia variants. If your multimillion dollar tanks are getting destroyed by av nades, your doing it wrong. Also lol at av nades being an "exploit". Have you ever been in a tank rolling through a map when two people start spamming Lai Dai AV grenades at you? If you've never experienced having > 6700 armor drop to zero in about 3 seconds, then your opinion simply doesn't count because you lack the experience of being destroying so quickly.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 191	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:17:00 - [26] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Commander Tuna wrote: Am I missing something here? The only times I see an av nade take out a tank is on the milltia variants. If your multimillion dollar tanks are getting destroyed by av nades, your doing it wrong. Also lol at av nades being an "exploit". Packed Lai Dai do insane damage. You are missing something here. AV grenade spam is deadly to pretty much any vehicle that gets within throw range. Especially if the tossers are near a supply depot or nano hives. This is one of the times when I do agree that this type of AV is too effective. Finally something logical from you.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 191	Posted - 2013.06.19 16:20:00 - [27] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: actually it makes perfect sense that a master av can solo any tank atm...think about it....if you run into a sntd suit in dust..your ina proto suit..they're gun game may even be a bit better...but its just more likely your gunna scrub em up....its called proto stomping beating the crap out of people with lesser gear. tanks have no gear above stnd...ive seen the so called adv havs..and me asa proto av ive quesynced witha friend and hit a adv hav with adv av.....the need a slight buff... once tankers are given they're proto's it will most likely take a combo of heavy av and light av to control the field....caldari proto hav would not be soloable by 1 proto swarm..2-3 man av teams....balance This^ It's hard to say tanks are UP when we're missing more than half of them. But when we get proto tanks this whole debate will just spring up again. How is it balanced when it takes 3 players (with AV) to kill one player (in a HAV)? How does this not lead to everyone rolling around in tanks? Maybe you should use more than just the standard free anti-armor suit. Five missiles leaving a tube is more powerful than four. The DAU assault forge is better than the militia forge. It's not hard to figure out.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 191	Posted - 2013.06.19 17:04:00 - [28] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: actually it makes perfect sense that a master av can solo any tank atm...think about it....if you run into a sntd suit in dust..your ina proto suit..they're gun game may even be a bit better...but its just more likely your gunna scrub em up....its called proto stomping beating the crap out of people with lesser gear. tanks have no gear above stnd...ive seen the so called adv havs..and me asa proto av ive quesynced witha friend and hit a adv hav with adv av.....the need a slight buff... once tankers are given they're proto's it will most likely take a combo of heavy av and light av to control the field....caldari proto hav would not be soloable by 1 proto swarm..2-3 man av teams....balance This^ It's hard to say tanks are UP when we're missing more than half of them. But when we get proto tanks this whole debate will just spring up again. How is it balanced when it takes 3 players (with AV) to kill one player (in a HAV)? How does this not lead to everyone rolling around in tanks? your proto hav is gunna cost you somewhere between 2-8 million isk...my proto av rig costs me 500 k .....of course there will always be the people whining about tanks being op...and when proto tanks come out there will be thousands of scrubs crying because they cant solo one with adv gear...i on the other hand look forward to the day where i might actually need help to kill a tank My basic fit with a proto turret is 1.7mil If i used an enforcer its 2.9mil maybe 3mil due to extra slot Advanced i can see will push it to 5mil probs and proto getting close to 10mil ISK fully fitted while that proto AV fit is 500k Not too mention that will be millions of SP needed to use proto vehicles I will look forward to the day when dumb ass randoms cant dent it with milita AV and it takes at least a couple of proto guys to hurt it The tears that will be shed if we get real PRO tanks will be enough to make Niagara Falls look like a water slide in a family pool.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 192	Posted - 2013.06.20 05:35:00 - [29] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: You obviously don't have experience as a heavy FG wielder in an infantry encounter. The majority of the time, the FG wielder dies in a close encounter with infantry. If I ever get to where I can OHK proto fit rail tank, without having to worry about getting OHKed by said tank, then I'll concede that you have a valid point. Till then, while I'm highly vulnerable to every battlefield threat, and my chosen target takes three or more shots to take down, you've got nothing to stand on. Tell me how you feel when a main weapon is able to lock on to your dropsuit. I'm still winning out some 1 v 1 when I have a militia forge gun. Dunno what you're doing wrong. Forge guns don't have lock on. That's SWARMS and AV grenades. I pop bad tankers regularly and sometimes I get a good tanker that makes a tactical mistake or just get's caught flat footed. But most of the time, good tankers manage to escape by leaving my field of fire or running for the red line denying them an area until I get run off by snipers, infantry support, or a rail gunner that can actually aim. Then I notify the squad I'm in that I need support and snipers get hunted, infantry gets countered, and our own tanker, or other AV adds additional support. It's called playing tactically. So perhaps I'm not doing so bad considering the only weapon skills I have actually put SP into is Forge and SMG. Thank you for telling me something I figured out a long time ago, why I've forgotten it until now. The only AV I can respect is a forge gun because those require significant investment for the suit as well, plus they actually require aim to hit. You don't see me saying to nerf forge guns, because I respect the hell out of them. My beef is with AV grenades and swarm launchers. Never used swarms the previous build because they were too damn easy.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 192	Posted - 2013.06.20 05:39:00 - [30] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: May be more difficult, but still OHK. I've lost many suits to rail tankers in a fire fight. Damage over time is a calculation based on statistical data of the equipment in question, not one's personal ability to hit the target. As for my use of grammar, I am actually educated. If you don't like my utilization of the English vocabulary, that's not my problem. Lastly, I never called him stupid. I simply stated that he seemed to have an issue with comprehension, or just a stubborn refusal, of basic statistical facts. Lol with the quality of even an Ivy League education failing, that really just doesn't mean much. If you went to MIT, that's great. If Harvard, well, have fun paying back your loans. Not that you won't be able to, but we have enough lawyers in the world. More than enough, really.

Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 192	Posted - 2013.06.20 20:18:00 - [31] - Quote Harry Hendersons wrote: once proto tanks emerge the balance will be there I doubt they'll give us real PRO tanks, because everyone will complain that they're too hard to solo.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 248	Posted - 2013.07.03 12:10:00 - [32] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: [ You want 9 slot proto hulls? How about 5 slot proto hulls? If PG/CPU gets fixed, a 9 slot proto hull tank, I'm pretty sure, would be nearly, if not completely, immune to infantry based AV. So how do you think those 9 slots would be filled, hm? Gimme what you think both a decent armor and shield fit would be.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 248	Posted - 2013.07.03 12:16:00 - [33] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: EDIT: Vehicle recall - It is getting abused a little Example - HAV getting whacked by an enemy, he jumps out and manages to recall it saving it 2 problems here for me 1. If the vehicle is getting whacked by an enemy and the enemy is causing damage you shouldnt be able to recall it till maybe 30secs after the last bit of damage - It stops players hopping out and instantly recalling it 2. If the vehicle is below 30% of its total HP it cannot be recalled - This gives the attacking AV or vehicle a chance to kill the vehicle and it stops johnny from nipping out and doing a 5sec button press to instantly recall it before its about to die Now this would be ideal with squad lock and the ability to kick players out of vehicles because atm if someone is in your tank you cannot recall it or get rid of them or prevent them from entering your tank in the 1st place Don't forget, like I said a few days ago, Johnny the Idiot firing a small turret at an installation before you're ready to engage it.

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